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Does PMP support HDR video playback?

24

Answers

  • GhostmGhostm Posts: 243Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    I hope when windows supports it, it can become a priority and maybe make implementation easier, it seems like it is becoming a staple in video.

  • ced0072ced0072 Posts: 70Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    In the meantime, I try to handle HDR as much as possible and my latest settings are the below, which is the entire content of my mpv.conf file:

    vo=opengl
    tscale=linear
    scale=ewa_lanczossharp
    cscale=ewa_lanczossoft
    dscale=mitchell
    scale-antiring=0.7
    cscale-antiring=0.7
    dither-depth=auto
    correct-downscaling=yes
    sigmoid-upscaling=yes
    deband=yes

    target-brightness=540
    target-prim=dci-p3
    hdr-tone-mapping=hable
    tone-mapping-param=0.7

    The second part concerns the HDR handling. With these settings I have a more colored pictured, I found it too light previously. Now the red are more powerful.
    So with these settings + enabling manualy the "HDR-effect" of the LG TV, "Medium" version, with just the brightness reduced to 44 in order to reduce granularity of blacks, it's quite good. I think I'm validating these settings for a while.

    It's not the subject but the first part of the mpv.conf file is too handle scaling of SD sources to 1080p.
    My TV is then handling the upscaliong from 1080p to 4K.
    I'm changing the PC resolution to 4K when viewing 4K content so there is no upscaling to 4K from the PC.
    See my dedicated post to have more details on how I easily switch from 1080p to 2160p with my remote:
    https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/244493/4k-tv-handling-1080p-and-2160p-resolutions-with-plex-media-player

    Windows 10 64bits
    Core i7 4770K, 16G RAM, Asus GTX1060
    PMS and PMP
    LG OLED 65C6V
    Onkyo TX-NR717
    Focal Dome 5.1 Speakers

  • PottypotsworthPottypotsworth Posts: 136Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @atrus said:

    @pottypotsworth said:
    Thanks for the reply, atrus. I am actually running Windows 10 and there was talk about the anniversary addition bringing HDR output, but also as per what you said I have read conflicting reports that it won't actually be available until next year. I'd be happy to test out anything if it is possible and someone told me where to look/what to do.

    Many thanks again.

    When Windows support this, try setting it to put HDR globally and then try in PMP. Would be a really good data point to have that. If anything surfaces in regards of Plex HDR before that I will of course try to remember to fetch you :)

    Hi Atrus,

    Now that Windows 10 supports HDR at the OS level and the Windows 10 Film and TV player fully plays HDR files, are we likely to see PMP updated to do the same?

    Thanks

  • atrusatrus Posts: 11,100Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja Plex Ninja

    @pottypotsworth said:

    @atrus said:

    @pottypotsworth said:
    Thanks for the reply, atrus. I am actually running Windows 10 and there was talk about the anniversary addition bringing HDR output, but also as per what you said I have read conflicting reports that it won't actually be available until next year. I'd be happy to test out anything if it is possible and someone told me where to look/what to do.

    Many thanks again.

    When Windows support this, try setting it to put HDR globally and then try in PMP. Would be a really good data point to have that. If anything surfaces in regards of Plex HDR before that I will of course try to remember to fetch you :)

    Hi Atrus,

    Now that Windows 10 supports HDR at the OS level and the Windows 10 Film and TV player fully plays HDR files, are we likely to see PMP updated to do the same?

    Thanks

    At the moment I would say that no one knows. I would say it partly depends on how the OS level integration works. Has anyone tested enabling it globally in Windows?

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  • PottypotsworthPottypotsworth Posts: 136Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @atrus said:

    @pottypotsworth said:

    @atrus said:

    @pottypotsworth said:
    Thanks for the reply, atrus. I am actually running Windows 10 and there was talk about the anniversary addition bringing HDR output, but also as per what you said I have read conflicting reports that it won't actually be available until next year. I'd be happy to test out anything if it is possible and someone told me where to look/what to do.

    Many thanks again.

    When Windows support this, try setting it to put HDR globally and then try in PMP. Would be a really good data point to have that. If anything surfaces in regards of Plex HDR before that I will of course try to remember to fetch you :)

    Hi Atrus,

    Now that Windows 10 supports HDR at the OS level and the Windows 10 Film and TV player fully plays HDR files, are we likely to see PMP updated to do the same?

    Thanks

    At the moment I would say that no one knows. I would say it partly depends on how the OS level integration works. Has anyone tested enabling it globally in Windows?

    I have tested it, it doesn't seem to work :(

    I can compare a HDR video played in "Film and TV" Windows 10 app player vs Plex Media Player and the enhanced color is not present in Plex.

  • vlangvlang Posts: 1,648Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja Plex Ninja

    Quite possible that the Windows compositor will just "reduce" the color of windows of normal applications. Anyway, I don't have a HDR TV, so I can only guess what Windows does.

    Try the following:

    • set the entire desktop to HDR mode (make sure your TV shows that input is HDR)
    • change PMP to native GL mode in the settings, fullscreen the PMP window
    • make sure the TV still shows that input is marked as HDR

    At this point, the PMP interface should be bright and oversaturated, or something into this direction, because the PMP interface certainly has no HDR support yet.

    Not at Plex anymore. I'm not a Ninja either.

  • PlaydancePlaydance Posts: 99Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    good idea ! i will try this as well ! running windows 10 with a NVIDIA GTX HDMI 2.0 card and PMP but will Plex direct Play 10 bit 4K ?

  • PottypotsworthPottypotsworth Posts: 136Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited June 2017

    @vlang said:
    Quite possible that the Windows compositor will just "reduce" the color of windows of normal applications. Anyway, I don't have a HDR TV, so I can only guess what Windows does.

    Try the following:

    • set the entire desktop to HDR mode (make sure your TV shows that input is HDR)
    • change PMP to native GL mode in the settings, fullscreen the PMP window
    • make sure the TV still shows that input is marked as HDR

    At this point, the PMP interface should be bright and oversaturated, or something into this direction, because the PMP interface certainly has no HDR support yet.

    Hey vlang, i just tried this...

    So basically with Windows in HDR mode you get the HDR "Marker/Flag" on the TV once when you adjust the setting and that is about it. The implementation from Microsoft is mind boggling because SDR content is passed through as HDR (for lack of a better term) so unless you KNOW that the content is HDR and can look out for the enhanced colour then the TV is unable to notify you since as far as it is concerned everything is HDR.

    I have no idea why the implemented it like this. HDR should be off until HDR content is detected and the implementation is breaking the colour of games and other content that is SDR.

    Anyway, switching PMP into Native GL mode does indeed make it render in an over saturated manner (in fact this helps me somewhat understand why Rocket League SDR looks so bad in Windows HDR mode) but the problem is the actual HDR movie is oversaturated too. It's like it is HDR... and then some :/. The HDR movie also stutters quite badly in Open GL mode and this on an i7 with a GTX 1080.

    So yeah, doesn't seem to work, but let me know if you want me to test anything else.

    Thanks

  • PlaydancePlaydance Posts: 99Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    i had a feeling this may happen , so in other words Plex is playing the file as SDR so it looks over saturated and incorrect? I don't write code or claim to be a computer expert but what is the complexity with having Plex just direct play these files with the HDR intact ? I understand transcoding would get complicated and create some heavy lifting but why not just have Plex direct play it ? easier said than done i'm guessing.

  • ced0072ced0072 Posts: 70Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited June 2017

    This is interesting.
    On my side, on windows 7, here is how I handle HDR:
    https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/258656/force-the-tv-to-switch-to-hdr-mode-on-a-pc-with-a-nvidia-gpu
    I don't think that it passes the HDR metadata correctly to the TV, but the result is pretty good, even if it's not strait forward.
    Also I'm not using the native GL mode for this.

    In any case, I think that PMP needs no be able to handle the HDR metadata, in order to correctly send them to the TV.

    I will definitely move to Windows 10 when HDR is correctly handled by PMP :smile:

    Windows 10 64bits
    Core i7 4770K, 16G RAM, Asus GTX1060
    PMS and PMP
    LG OLED 65C6V
    Onkyo TX-NR717
    Focal Dome 5.1 Speakers

  • PottypotsworthPottypotsworth Posts: 136Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @Playdance said:
    i had a feeling this may happen , so in other words Plex is playing the file as SDR so it looks over saturated and incorrect? I don't write code or claim to be a computer expert but what is the complexity with having Plex just direct play these files with the HDR intact ? I understand transcoding would get complicated and create some heavy lifting but why not just have Plex direct play it ? easier said than done i'm guessing.

    It's kind of hard to describe, it feels like HDR is being passed because the colours are a lot more enhanced than SDR but that the HDR is also over saturated.

    Since HDR is all about passing Meta Data, I wouldn't have thought it would be mind boggling crazy to implement support into a newer version of PMP.

  • ced0072ced0072 Posts: 70Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    What is not clear for now is: does windows 10 really handle HDR correctly?
    If yes, then it's a good timing for doing the necessary changes to PMP to handle it too?
    Both are needed if we want something good.

    Windows 10 64bits
    Core i7 4770K, 16G RAM, Asus GTX1060
    PMS and PMP
    LG OLED 65C6V
    Onkyo TX-NR717
    Focal Dome 5.1 Speakers

  • PottypotsworthPottypotsworth Posts: 136Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @ced0072 said:
    What is not clear for now is: does windows 10 really handle HDR correctly?
    If yes, then it's a good timing for doing the necessary changes to PMP to handle it too?
    Both are needed if we want something good.

    @ced0072 said:
    What is not clear for now is: does windows 10 really handle HDR correctly?
    If yes, then it's a good timing for doing the necessary changes to PMP to handle it too?
    Both are needed if we want something good.

    The "Film and TV" app (basically Windows Media Player) plays HDR in full colour and flawlessly.

    Windows 10 overall handling of HDR is awful (as per my post above), but there is no doubt the player is playing HDR correctly.

  • vlangvlang Posts: 1,648Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja Plex Ninja

    I wouldn't have thought Windows just passes through "SDR" applications' graphics as HDR.

    The problem with HDR is that all parts on the chain (video player, OS, GPU, TV) need to agree on the output mode. This can be normal PC RGB (also called sRGB, SDR, etc.), or a specific HDR mode. There are actually many HDR standards, and some take metadata that can depend on the movie. I don't remember which ones are supported by HDMI or all the TVs, but I expect some chaos and confusion. Some OSes don't even have known/standard APIs for setting this yet. Windows 10 does, at least in theory.

    The problem with PMP is that it's isolated from the OS APIs via Qt, so making use of the OS or GPU APIs to signal HDR to the TV becomes harder.

    But seeing that Windows just passes through application output, this means you can probably configure PMP video output to output HDR. (Though just that - no support for changing how the GUI and player controls is rendered.)

    The most important options to tweak this should be these:

    https://mpv.io/manual/master/#options-target-prim
    https://mpv.io/manual/master/#options-target-trc

    Put them into a file named mpv.conf in the same directory as plexmediaplayer.conf.

    I'd try:

    target-prim=bt.2020
    target-trc=st2084
    

    Generally, they should correspond to whatever your TV/GPU is set to.

    Both on SDR and HDR displays, this should make the colors less bright and less saturated.

    Not at Plex anymore. I'm not a Ninja either.

  • vlangvlang Posts: 1,648Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja Plex Ninja

    One subtle issue I almost forgot: to avoid banding, you should want 10 bit output. I don't know if Windows even supports that, and I'm somewhat sure ANGLE/Qt don't. Although if Windows does, then OpenGL might support it without any additional changes.

    For now this only makes it more complicated - just wanted to mention it as a footnote.

    Not at Plex anymore. I'm not a Ninja either.

  • PottypotsworthPottypotsworth Posts: 136Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited June 2017

    @vlang said:
    One subtle issue I almost forgot: to avoid banding, you should want 10 bit output. I don't know if Windows even supports that, and I'm somewhat sure ANGLE/Qt don't. Although if Windows does, then OpenGL might support it without any additional changes.

    For now this only makes it more complicated - just wanted to mention it as a footnote.

    I'll try editing the .conf file later and report back.

    One thing i will say about banding is that Windows 10 in HDR mode (4:2:2 - 8 bit, 10 bit, or 12 bit) will 100% introduce banding with SDR [sic] content inside Plex. I tested this a great deal on Saturday night.

  • vlangvlang Posts: 1,648Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja Plex Ninja

    One thing i will say about banding is that Windows 10 in HDR mode (4:2:2 - 8 bit, 10 bit, or 12 bit) will 100% introduce banding with SDR [sic] content inside Plex. I tested this a great deal on Saturday night.

    I wouldn't really have expected that, but I'm not sure either. 10 bit has 4 times the precision of 8 bit, so I could imagine that a different gamma curve would make 8 bit gradients really look much worse than a 10 bit gradient. It's a bit like zooming in onto images with different DPI - the lower one will of course look pixelated first.

    Not at Plex anymore. I'm not a Ninja either.

  • PottypotsworthPottypotsworth Posts: 136Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited June 2017

    @vlang said:

    One thing i will say about banding is that Windows 10 in HDR mode (4:2:2 - 8 bit, 10 bit, or 12 bit) will 100% introduce banding with SDR [sic] content inside Plex. I tested this a great deal on Saturday night.

    I wouldn't really have expected that, but I'm not sure either. 10 bit has 4 times the precision of 8 bit, so I could imagine that a different gamma curve would make 8 bit gradients really look much worse than a 10 bit gradient. It's a bit like zooming in onto images with different DPI - the lower one will of course look pixelated first.

    Yeah, but what i am saying is that just by virtue of having the HDR Switch set to ON (no matter if you keep the colour space, Gamma, bits etc exactly the same) it will introduce banding into an SDR movie within Plex.

    So 4:2:2 8 bit SDR Movie with HDR set to off = NO BANDING

    4:2:2 10 bit SDR Movie with HDR set to on = BANDING

    So even if we can get Plex to correctly play HDR movies, we are still going to have the issue of needing to turn Windows 10 HDR on and off manually because SDR movies become unwatchable with the awful banding.

    I'll get a picture of the banding as soon as I can, but in the mean time, and to show how "screwy" Windows 10 is with HDR mode on, but passing SDR content, this is the correct colour of a Steam avatar...

    and this is how it looks with HDR set to on despite the game in question (Rocket League) being SDR...

    As you can see, it is completely over saturated.

  • ced0072ced0072 Posts: 70Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    I see your point and this is exactly what I have, even in Windows 7, when "forcing" HDR mode like described above. It's completely over saturated except when playing a HDR movie of course.
    Then I manualy disable the HDR before switching back to a SDR movie.

    Windows 10 64bits
    Core i7 4770K, 16G RAM, Asus GTX1060
    PMS and PMP
    LG OLED 65C6V
    Onkyo TX-NR717
    Focal Dome 5.1 Speakers

  • PottypotsworthPottypotsworth Posts: 136Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @ced0072 said:
    I see your point and this is exactly what I have, even in Windows 7, when "forcing" HDR mode like described above. It's completely over saturated except when playing a HDR movie of course.
    Then I manualy disable the HDR before switching back to a SDR movie.

    Got ya. Well it's interesting that the over saturation doesn't happen to Plex (unless you switch into Open GL), but what happens in its place is horrible banding as per my posts above.

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