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Updated versions of Plex, additional metadata fields, retrieving metadata, locking files

NewPlazaNewPlaza Posts: 896Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

Okay, I have a few questions regarding Plex versions, metadata downloading, re-downloading, and locking files.
Bare with me, I'll try to explain the best way I can without any magic or trickery.

My first question involves Plex versions and additional metadata new versions may retrieve. An example of this would be PMS v0.9 didn't display actor posters whereas v1.6.1 does. I assume this means Plex had to create additional tables in the database.
If so, does Plex re-scan and download all the metadata again or just the additional new fields?

Secondly, does Plex flag a file after it believes it has retrieved all possible information(data for every table/field in the database Plex uses). If no, then why not? I would think a soft lock would be a good thing. No need to re-scan and download all metadata again for a file that has all fields filled in.

Thanks.

Comments

  • OttoKernerOttoKerner Posts: 26,240Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja Plex Ninja

    @NewPlaza said:
    If so, does Plex re-scan and download all the metadata again or just the additional new fields?

    Only if

    • Plex believes the file is still 'unmatched'. it will then attempt to achieve a match on every library update or during the nightly server maintenance.
    • Refresh of meta data can happen during nightly server maintenance, if the appropriate 'Task' is activated

    https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/201553286-Scheduled-Tasks

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  • NewPlazaNewPlaza Posts: 896Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited July 19

    Thank you @OttoKerner.
    What constitutes unmatched? The show not recognized by the online resources or Plex. Or empty fields?

    Sorry I should have been more specific. The libraries I am referring to are MOVIES and TVSHOWS.
    It doesn't seem to be any options that would re-download metadata for those two libraries or am I missing it?

  • JuiceWSAJuiceWSA Posts: 6,938Members ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 19

    Plex wants everybody to believe that 'Refresh All Metadata' (under the dots next to the library in the left pane of Plexweb) does what you want, but that ancient bundle bug prevents that in some (many, most, all) cases.

    This however will absolutely, positively 'Refresh All Metadata' for select items:

    The Plex Dance®:

    1) remove show/movie(s) from library
    2) update library
    3) empty trash
    4) clean bundles
    https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/200392106-Library-Actions <--- update library, empty trash, clean bundles
    5) bring names and structures into compliance - or you're doing this to 'Refresh All Metadata'.
    6) replace corrected show/movie(s) into library
    7) update library

    All Steps. In Order. No Shortcuts.

    If you want to really 'Refresh All Metadata' for an entire library...

    Absolute Library Metadata Refresh™:

    Delete Library
    Update Libraries
    Empty Trash
    Clean Bundles
    Create New Library

    Guaranteed to work - every single time.

    lol

    Note: When 'Absolute Library Metadata Refresh™' is performed and you are Generating Video Preview Thumbnails this could/will take a while. I employed 'Absolute Library Metadata Refresh™' on my TV Sci-Fi Library last night - 5 hours and 30 minutes later the CPU blowers spun down.

    :)

    Tony

    FileBot For Easy Plex File Naming: http://www.filebot.net/

    Automated Plex Naming With Filebot: https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/191687/plex-naming-schemes-for-filebot

    Plex Friendly Handbrake Guide - DVDs/BluRays: https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/comment/1335697/#Comment_1335697

    Plex Clients: AFTVs, Androids, PMP, Rokus (running RARflix: http://mkvxstream.blogspot.com/2014/09/roku-plex-setup-guide.html ) Link May Work - May Not

  • OttoKernerOttoKerner Posts: 26,240Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja Plex Ninja
    edited July 19

    @NewPlaza said:
    Thank you @OttoKerner.
    What constitutes unmatched? The show not recognized by the online resources or Plex. Or empty fields?

    Plex not knowing which online metadata apply to the item.
    You can recognise an unmatched item by the appearance of the 'Match' menu item, whereas a matched item will have 'Fix Match'.

    This menu item is only available at the top show level for tv shows, not on seasons or episodes!

    You cannot deduce the 'matched' state from the presence or absence of metadata, because meta data may have come from the files as well (mp4/m4v files in particular).

    It doesn't seem to be any options that would re-download metadata for those two libraries or am I missing it?

    You are right. I was mistaken about this for a long time. It got stuck in my brain somehow. :)

    There is actually another error scenario where a re-download of metadata occurs:
    When you have
    Settings - Server - Library - 'Empty trash automatically after every scan'
    activated, but your media storage is faulty/not available or only intermittently available.
    then Plex might delete some items from the library (which will also erase their meta data)
    then it might re-discover them upon next library update and execute the 'matching'-process again (which will fetch meta data from the online sources anew)

    This is the main reason why you should never enable this checkbox with external or networked media storage.

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  • NewPlazaNewPlaza Posts: 896Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited July 19

    @JuiceWSA
    Thanks but I don't want the metadata refreshed. I have noticed that some of the posters for movies and shows are changing. Don't get me wrong, most of the new posters are correct, just a different version. A few however are blank. I'm just trying to figure out why Plex is doing this. On both, different versions and blank. Why change a perfectly good poster? I'm sure if I didn't like the poster to begin with I would have changed it at the time I added the movie.

    @OttoKerner said:
    You cannot deduce the 'matched' state from the presence or absence of metadata, because meta data may have come from the files as well (mp4/m4v files in particular).

    Hmm. Why not? I mean, if every table/row for a particular item is filled in the database then why not call it "completed" or "matched". I can not see Plex giving the green light on a movie if half the available fields are empty. Each version of Plex software should know exactly what fields are available and what fields are filled in. I would also think any info Plex puts from a MP4 file would then be entered into the database. I can't see Plex "re-scanning" the embedded metadata for a particular file over and over. I could be wrong but I don't think Plex Media Server.exe scrapes the embedded from files. It called on another program/script. So, on that assumption, scan it once, copy the embedded metadata to Plex database.

    Thanks

  • OttoKernerOttoKerner Posts: 26,240Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja Plex Ninja

    @NewPlaza said:
    Hmm. Why not? I mean, if every table/row for a particular item is filled in the database then why not call it "completed" or "matched".
    Each version of Plex software should know exactly what fields are available and what fields are filled in.

    No. Plex cannot know this, simply because it can change at any time. Plex uses metadata from a variety of sources. These are in part community-supplied and part paid for. Both can change anytime and add or sometimes also remove parts of metadata.
    Plex cannot expect to get a minimum 'set' of metadata,
    just as it cannot expect that meta data will not get amended later.

    I would also think any info Plex puts from a MP4 file would then be entered into the database. I can't see Plex "re-scanning" the embedded metadata for a particular file over and over. I could be wrong but I don't think Plex Media Server.exe scrapes the embedded from files.

    Plex reads embedded meta data from mp4 files. Period.
    You can change the priority of the various meta data sources, so that online meta data are "overriding" embedded meta data.
    You can alo disable reading of all local metadata by deactivating the 'Local Media Assets' agent, but then you will also lose access to external subtitle files and other local extras.

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  • NewPlazaNewPlaza Posts: 896Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @OttoKerner said:
    No. Plex cannot know this, simply because it can change at any time

    What can change, Plex or online sources?

    Both can change anytime and add or sometimes also remove parts of metadata.

    True but in the case of adding, your currently installed Plex can't do nothing with because it doesn't know a new section/or more data was added to the site. This would need a dev to code the new addition into Plex. That goes back to using v0.9. It won't matter at all if thetvdb started to change the pictures of all the actors or delete them altogether. It doesn't affect Plex v0.9.

    Anyway, I really don't want to debate this(though I do love a debate). Plex is programmed to do a very specific task and having a very clear understanding on what IS and what IS NOT. Remember, we users are the ones that conform to Plex. Not the other way around. We must comply to the rules that Plex was designed on. If we fail to do this then we don't get the results we wanted.
    So, how can a program not know the game if every move is mapped out.

  • OttoKernerOttoKerner Posts: 26,240Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja Plex Ninja

    @NewPlaza said:

    @OttoKerner said:
    No. Plex cannot know this, simply because it can change at any time

    What can change, Plex or online sources?

    The latter of course.

    Help others too - by reporting back with your results!
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  • NewPlazaNewPlaza Posts: 896Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited July 21

    Well, or course.

    Still why Plex thinks I need a new poster for my movies/shows baffles me. Nothing was wrong with the original one.

    My example of this is -> https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/280084/transferring-tv-show-poster-to-main-poster#latest
    My main poster(entire series picture) changed automatically mid season. What need did Plex have to do so?

    Plex is doing some kinds of checks I hope. Whenever I add any episode to Plex I get no ep title and air dates for days but then I do.
    https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/278506/tv-shows-matching#latest
    So, is it re-download all the metadata for the entire show including all 3 seasons or just the data that's missing..
    I just find it odd this happens and want to know more of the internal workings of the program.

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