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Plex ignoring GDPR which comes into force on 25th May 2018

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Answers

  • abssorbabssorb Posts: 20Members ✭✭

    Many companies are fleeing Europe, which essentially puts a great big "guilty" mark over their heads. But they are mistaken in thinking that they can ignore Data Access Requests from 25th May.

    The legislation actually became valid two years ago, it doesn't start taking effect on 25 May - it's already in effect. May 25th is when enforcement starts. So pulling out the month before will not protect them if they try and keep the data. If they leave, they have to delete it.
    https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/05/unroll-me-to-close-to-eu-users-saying-it-cant-comply-with-gdpr/

    Plex needs to hire European lawyers to help them with this, because whomever has been advising them so far have not protected them enough.

    Example from TOS, published in capitals:

    PLEX GmbH (“Plex”) IS WILLING TO LICENSE AND PERMIT USE OF THE PLEX SOLUTION SUBJECT AT ALL TIMES TO AGREEMENT WITH THIS TOS. BY USING OR OTHERWISE ACCESSING THE PLEX SOLUTION, YOU ACCEPT AND AGREE TO THIS TOS. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THIS TOS, DO NOT USE THE PLEX SOLUTION.

    Sorry guys, but that trick, most commonly used in USA to mean "my way or the highway" will not work in the EU. It actually backfires spectacularly here because of the words SUBJECT AT ALL TIMES TO AGREEMENT WITH THIS TOS, which could then allow a EU court to invalidate the entire agreement, rather than just the unfair bits.

    I was glad to see that the Clause 6 was improved though. Compared with the laughable wording posted a few pages back.

  • NewPlazaNewPlaza Posts: 1,754Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    I see no attorneys in this thread.

  • Elijah_BaleyElijah_Baley Posts: 4,977Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @NewPlaza said:
    I see no attorneys in this thread.

    Actually I was one but I did very little with business law and even less with international. Many years ago I became disenchanted with the hypocrisy and downright unethical conduct that permeates the "legal" profession and allowed my practice to lapse and found other lawyers for my clients. After that I slept better and generally enjoyed better health.

    But that does not matter as any law written by lawyers means exactly what lawyers say it does and has little to do with what it actually says. That is exactly the status of the GDPR and all the speculation about it is meaningless until the lawyers with the actual power decide what it means and the judges (lawyers with real power) finalize what the lower lawyers say.

    "Nothing is illegal if one hundred well-placed business men decide to do it." Andrew Young

    “The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.” Philip K. Dic*k (This STUPID forum software does not allow a perfectly valid last name, hence the unusual looking formating)

    From a High School paper on Greek Philosophers:
    "Socrates was a famous Greek teacher who went around giving people advice. They killed him. Socrates died from an overdose of wedlock."

  • NewPlazaNewPlaza Posts: 1,754Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited May 10

    @Elijah_Baley said:

    @NewPlaza said:
    I see no attorneys in this thread.

    Actually I was one but I did very little with business law and even less with international. Many years ago I became disenchanted with the hypocrisy and downright unethical conduct that permeates the "legal" profession and allowed my practice to lapse and found other lawyers for my clients. After that I slept better and generally enjoyed better health.

    But that does not matter as any law written by lawyers means exactly what lawyers say it does and has little to do with what it actually says. That is exactly the status of the GDPR and all the speculation about it is meaningless until the lawyers with the actual power decide what it means and the judges (lawyers with real power) finalize what the lower lawyers say.

    "Nothing is illegal if one hundred well-placed business men decide to do it." Andrew Young

    Oh yeah. I do agree with you there. A law can be written down in a book a million times means nothing when you meet the judge, lol

  • Trotter999Trotter999 Posts: 101Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited May 21

    @BigWheel said:
    may 25. maybe before.

    Are Plex still planning to be compliant in the next 3 days with GDPR, can't understand why you are leaving it until the very last moment?

    Can not understand why Plex Staff are ignoring this, and I will be reporting Plex on the 26th of May for not being compliant with GDPR, unless you take some steps to be compliant?

  • Elijah_BaleyElijah_Baley Posts: 4,977Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @Trotter999 said:

    @BigWheel said:
    may 25. maybe before.

    Are Plex still planning to be compliant in the next 3 days with GDPR, can't understand why you are leaving it until the very last moment?

    Can not understand why Plex Staff are ignoring this, and I will be reporting Plex on the 26th of May for not being compliant with GDPR, unless you take some steps to be compliant?

    I wonder exactly how is Plex non-compliant? I do not mean in generalities I mean exactly. What are they doing or not doing that is in conflict with GDPR?

    If you are going to report them you must have some idea what you are reporting them for.

    I do not know if they are in compliance or not but I cannot believe that they are not or will not be by the deadline as that would be extremely foolish from a business law sense and Plex may be a lot of things but they are not that kind of foolish.

    “The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.” Philip K. Dic*k (This STUPID forum software does not allow a perfectly valid last name, hence the unusual looking formating)

    From a High School paper on Greek Philosophers:
    "Socrates was a famous Greek teacher who went around giving people advice. They killed him. Socrates died from an overdose of wedlock."

  • Trotter999Trotter999 Posts: 101Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @Elijah_Baley said:

    @Trotter999 said:

    @BigWheel said:
    may 25. maybe before.

    Are Plex still planning to be compliant in the next 3 days with GDPR, can't understand why you are leaving it until the very last moment?

    Can not understand why Plex Staff are ignoring this, and I will be reporting Plex on the 26th of May for not being compliant with GDPR, unless you take some steps to be compliant?

    I wonder exactly how is Plex non-compliant? I do not mean in generalities I mean exactly. What are they doing or not doing that is in conflict with GDPR?

    If you are going to report them you must have some idea what you are reporting them for.

    I do not know if they are in compliance or not but I cannot believe that they are not or will not be by the deadline as that would be extremely foolish from a business law sense and Plex may be a lot of things but they are not that kind of foolish.

    I will be reporting them on the 26th May 2018, so that the EU data protection authorities can check if Plex are compliant for GDPR.

    As an EU citizen, I do not believe that they are compliant as of today, and it is down to Plex to be compliant and prove they are, by the 25th May 2018.

  • Elijah_BaleyElijah_Baley Posts: 4,977Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @Trotter999 said:

    @Elijah_Baley said:

    @Trotter999 said:

    @BigWheel said:
    may 25. maybe before.

    Are Plex still planning to be compliant in the next 3 days with GDPR, can't understand why you are leaving it until the very last moment?

    Can not understand why Plex Staff are ignoring this, and I will be reporting Plex on the 26th of May for not being compliant with GDPR, unless you take some steps to be compliant?

    I wonder exactly how is Plex non-compliant? I do not mean in generalities I mean exactly. What are they doing or not doing that is in conflict with GDPR?

    If you are going to report them you must have some idea what you are reporting them for.

    I do not know if they are in compliance or not but I cannot believe that they are not or will not be by the deadline as that would be extremely foolish from a business law sense and Plex may be a lot of things but they are not that kind of foolish.

    I will be reporting them on the 26th May 2018, so that the EU data protection authorities can check if Plex are compliant for GDPR.

    As an EU citizen, I do not believe that they are compliant as of today, and it is down to Plex to be compliant and prove they are, by the 25th May 2018.

    As I thought you have no idea if they are or are not compliant.

    “The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.” Philip K. Dic*k (This STUPID forum software does not allow a perfectly valid last name, hence the unusual looking formating)

    From a High School paper on Greek Philosophers:
    "Socrates was a famous Greek teacher who went around giving people advice. They killed him. Socrates died from an overdose of wedlock."

  • NewPlazaNewPlaza Posts: 1,754Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited May 21

    @Trotter999 said:

    @Elijah_Baley said:

    @Trotter999 said:

    @BigWheel said:
    may 25. maybe before.

    Are Plex still planning to be compliant in the next 3 days with GDPR, can't understand why you are leaving it until the very last moment?

    Can not understand why Plex Staff are ignoring this, and I will be reporting Plex on the 26th of May for not being compliant with GDPR, unless you take some steps to be compliant?

    I wonder exactly how is Plex non-compliant? I do not mean in generalities I mean exactly. What are they doing or not doing that is in conflict with GDPR?

    If you are going to report them you must have some idea what you are reporting them for.

    I do not know if they are in compliance or not but I cannot believe that they are not or will not be by the deadline as that would be extremely foolish from a business law sense and Plex may be a lot of things but they are not that kind of foolish.

    I will be reporting them on the 26th May 2018, so that the EU data protection authorities can check if Plex are compliant for GDPR.

    As an EU citizen, I do not believe that they are compliant as of today, and it is down to Plex to be compliant and prove they are, by the 25th May 2018.

    You believe? This does not answer @Elijah_Baley.
    You believe... Wish that held anything beyond the desire to relieve yourself, lol
    Take that to court.... Your honor, I believed I did nothing wrong by robbing that bank and my friend here did nothing wrong driving me home. We keep telling the police here but they just won't listen us.

  • Trotter999Trotter999 Posts: 101Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited May 21

    @Elijah_Baley said:

    @Trotter999 said:

    @Elijah_Baley said:

    @Trotter999 said:

    @BigWheel said:
    may 25. maybe before.

    Are Plex still planning to be compliant in the next 3 days with GDPR, can't understand why you are leaving it until the very last moment?

    Can not understand why Plex Staff are ignoring this, and I will be reporting Plex on the 26th of May for not being compliant with GDPR, unless you take some steps to be compliant?

    I wonder exactly how is Plex non-compliant? I do not mean in generalities I mean exactly. What are they doing or not doing that is in conflict with GDPR?

    If you are going to report them you must have some idea what you are reporting them for.

    I do not know if they are in compliance or not but I cannot believe that they are not or will not be by the deadline as that would be extremely foolish from a business law sense and Plex may be a lot of things but they are not that kind of foolish.

    I will be reporting them on the 26th May 2018, so that the EU data protection authorities can check if Plex are compliant for GDPR.

    As an EU citizen, I do not believe that they are compliant as of today, and it is down to Plex to be compliant and prove they are, by the 25th May 2018.

    As I thought you have no idea if they are or are not compliant.

    No, I don't have a definitive idea on this, my opinion is that as of today Plex are not compliant, and I will ask the EU to check on Friday if Plex are compliant, and Plex have to prove that they are to EU.

  • NewPlazaNewPlaza Posts: 1,754Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited May 21

    @Trotter999,
    I have a question for you.
    Have you contacted Google, Yahoo, varies online email servers, Microsoft, your ISP, your bank, and many others and asked if they are compliant? Or checked their online policies for compliance?
    If so, did you get a response back from their legal team?
    If not, why of PLEX then? Is it because PLEX Inc, is a small company you believe you can bully? Or maybe you believe you have a "personal relationship" into PLEX inc. You know I got it. You are just looking out for PLEX, right? You just want to make sure they don't get into any troubles..you know...your "personal relationship" with them and all....

    One more question.. This might be the most important one..
    Have you contacted PLEX Inc directly regarding your legal concerns, https://www.plex.tv/about/privacy-legal/

    Also, the TOS & Privacy Policy will change May 23, 2018.
    https://www.plex.tv/about/privacy-legal/terms-of-service-may-2018/
    https://www.plex.tv/about/privacy-legal/privacy-policy-may-2018/

  • Elijah_BaleyElijah_Baley Posts: 4,977Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    Unless EU law is very different that US law that is not enough to bring a complaint. It is like me calling the police and stating I "think" my neighbor may be doing something illegal and then expecting the police to start an investigation and placing the burden of proof on my neighbor to prove they are truly not doing something that is outside the law.

    In the US the only places where the burden of proof falls to the accused is in some civil proceedings and in about any dealings with the US Internal Revenue Service and I think that is pretty much true under EU law as well.

    The GDPR is one of those statutes/regulations that seems to bridge civil law and criminal law but it, from my scanning and reading of most of it, it seems to be more criminal in the way it is written and its intent.

    “The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.” Philip K. Dic*k (This STUPID forum software does not allow a perfectly valid last name, hence the unusual looking formating)

    From a High School paper on Greek Philosophers:
    "Socrates was a famous Greek teacher who went around giving people advice. They killed him. Socrates died from an overdose of wedlock."

  • Trotter999Trotter999 Posts: 101Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    Thanks for your replies, will still be reporting on the 26th May 2018 that Plex is not compliant with GDPR.

  • NewPlazaNewPlaza Posts: 1,754Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @Trotter999 said:
    Thanks for your replies, will still be reporting on the 26th May 2018 that Plex is not compliant with GDPR.

    I know you do not know me and all, but please do me a favor. Please let us know how that goes. I would be very interested in the outcome.

  • Trotter999Trotter999 Posts: 101Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @NewPlaza said:

    @Trotter999 said:
    Thanks for your replies, will still be reporting on the 26th May 2018 that Plex is not compliant with GDPR.

    I know you do not know me and all, but please do me a favor. Please let us know how that goes. I would be very interested in the outcome.

    I will try and post here but am sure that other EU citizens may also make a complaint about Plex to the EU.

  • tom80Htom80H Posts: 2,074Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @Trotter999 said:
    Thanks for your replies, will still be reporting on the 26th May 2018 that Plex is not compliant with GDPR.

    ico.org.uk is putting it quite nicely:

    ICO says:

    Concerns... How your information has been handled

    If you have a concern about the way an organisation is handling your personal information – perhaps they hold information about you that is incorrect, they have held it for too long, or they are not keeping it secure – we may be able to help you do something about it.

    What can I expect?

    If we think the organisation has not complied with its obligations we can give the organisation advice and ask it to solve the problem. We cannot award you compensation. Our main aim is to improve the information rights practices of organisations, where there is an opportunity for us to do so.
    We will not usually investigate concerns where there has been an undue delay in bringing it to our attention. You should raise your concerns with us within three months of your last meaningful contact with the organisation concerned.

    They won't just follow your "please investigate Plex" complaint... Without an actual concern/issue you'll get little but a nice "thank you" e-mail. And in all openness... that's fair enough as otherwise we'd just be burning tax payer money (or even more of it).

    Hence... enjoy.

  • marcelhehlemarcelhehle Posts: 447Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @Elijah_Baley said:

    @Trotter999 said:

    @Elijah_Baley said:

    @Trotter999 said:

    @BigWheel said:
    may 25. maybe before.

    Are Plex still planning to be compliant in the next 3 days with GDPR, can't understand why you are leaving it until the very last moment?

    Can not understand why Plex Staff are ignoring this, and I will be reporting Plex on the 26th of May for not being compliant with GDPR, unless you take some steps to be compliant?

    I wonder exactly how is Plex non-compliant? I do not mean in generalities I mean exactly. What are they doing or not doing that is in conflict with GDPR?

    If you are going to report them you must have some idea what you are reporting them for.

    I do not know if they are in compliance or not but I cannot believe that they are not or will not be by the deadline as that would be extremely foolish from a business law sense and Plex may be a lot of things but they are not that kind of foolish.

    I will be reporting them on the 26th May 2018, so that the EU data protection authorities can check if Plex are compliant for GDPR.

    As an EU citizen, I do not believe that they are compliant as of today, and it is down to Plex to be compliant and prove they are, by the 25th May 2018.

    As I thought you have no idea if they are or are not compliant.

    They demad Opt-Out where GDPR specifically requires Opt-In.

  • rwofficerwoffice Posts: 188Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited May 23

    @abssorb said:
    Plex needs to hire European lawyers to help them with this, because whomever has been advising them so far have not protected them enough.

    They can't even afford developers to properly maintain their product, how are they going to afford lawyers? :smiley:

  • marcelhehlemarcelhehle Posts: 447Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @rwoffice said:

    They can't even afford developers to properly maintain their product, how are they going to afford lawyers? :smiley:

    Well ... let's just assume for one second that the times are changing and that it's expected that IT companies change too.

    The last 2 weeks I got several dozen of emails from companies that asked me to accept their new privacy statements and allow them to continue to use my personal data (mostly my email to continue to spam me with advertisements). Among those there where quite a few companies I even have forgotten that I've ever been in contact with them. The good thing about it was: once duing a short timeframe all companies sent an email asking for permission to continue to use my data. Whow!!!

    There's just one company that sticks out: Plex
    Not only that so far all their communication about their upcoming changes is non-compliant with GDPR, but also that as of today - 23. of Mai - there is no request from them for me to allow them to use my data and also no Out-In switch in their software (which would be basically the same).

    They simply don't get it. It's in line with their general communication ... it's a f**** mess.

  • Ted CTed C Posts: 40Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    Looking forward to getting a copy of all the data Plex has on me. Should be interesting!

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