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You closed out the discussion for "Release Notes for Plex for Windows Store" ???

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  • ChuckPAChuckPA Posts: 22,836Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja, Plex Team Member Plex Team Member

    As I have asked before, and cannot stress enough, "UWP" covers a lot of hardware platforms.
    To that end, be specific about the make and model of portables because there are not enough resources to get everything which carries the UWP label. (which I referred to above).

    To those with the MS Surface product, to my understanding it's a full-featured Windows platform unto itself with touch screen browser. What features does Plex/Web not provide that a dedicated app can?

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  • MovieFan.PlexMovieFan.Plex Posts: 17,581Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja Plex Employee

    @missionsparta said:
    I am talking about the thread launched by them on this section as seen here:

    https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/65479/release-notes-for-plex-for-windows-store#latest

    Umm, that thread was from 2013 and never had any information in it. The latest notes can be found in https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/62555/plex-for-windows-and-windows-phone#latest. We just closed that old one to do some housekeeping.

  • kqmaverickkqmaverick Posts: 23Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    For me the biggest issue is on a laptop with battery stretch enabled (read CPU under-clocked), it won't connect to the local content properly. I.e. timeout is too short.

  • psg190@gmail.compsg190@gmail.com Posts: 6Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @ChuckPA said:
    As I have asked before, and cannot stress enough, "UWP" covers a lot of hardware platforms.
    To that end, be specific about the make and model of portables because there are not enough resources to get everything which carries the UWP label. (which I referred to above).

    To those with the MS Surface product, to my understanding it's a full-featured Windows platform unto itself with touch screen browser. What features does Plex/Web not provide that a dedicated app can?

    1 issue is syncing. You cannot sync with Plex Media Player or the Web. #2 issue is that the touch interface on Plex Media Player does not work.

  • ChuckPAChuckPA Posts: 22,836Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja, Plex Team Member Plex Team Member

    @psg190@gmail.com

    1. PMP does not have sync capability by design. They intended it to be a player only. The target use case is that of a device, e.g. like an Intel NUC, which is connected to directly to the TV. This behaves in the same manner as an nVidia Shield without a server function included.
    2. Confirm please? PMP on which MS Surface product(s) does touching the display not work? By 'touching' , I mean that you have zero ability to use the app in any way after it launches other than to terminate it?

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  • missionspartamissionsparta Posts: 336Validating, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @ChuckPA said:
    @psg190@gmail.com

    1. PMP does not have sync capability by design. They intended it to be a player only. The target use case is that of a device, e.g. like an Intel NUC, which is connected to directly to the TV. This behaves in the same manner as an nVidia Shield without a server function included.
    2. Confirm please? PMP on which MS Surface product(s) does touching the display not work? By 'touching' , I mean that you have zero ability to use the app in any way after it launches other than to terminate it?

    Supoorting/Covering the Surface line will hit the highest number of devices.

  • lenaxialenaxia Posts: 446Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited May 1

    Okay, I'll give this a shot @ChuckPA

    I'll answer the question you posed a few times, which is which platforms to support:

    • I would like to see specifically the Windows 10 app that is in the Microsoft Store supported. This means the app currently in the windows store as it pertains to desktop/tablet/surface users. Phone is obviously dead.
    • This can either be with updates to the current app, or a full UWP conversion of the XBOX app to support desktop devices. I don't care.
    • Plex/Web on Surface provides a poor browsing experience because it is not nearly as touch friendly as the windows store app. There are too many hover menus (most of the "..." menus) that are not easily accessible or visible when using fingers (they appear during mouse hover).
    • Plex/Web is not as responsive as native. This is why many of the big name apps (facebook being the biggest example), tried, then abandoned HTML5 apps and went back to native.
    • Plex/Web also takes more time to load, being a web page, it must constantly fetch artifacts, whereas an app has easier access to them and does not need to fetch. I use both, but consistently prefer the windows store app because it is an overall better experience than Plex/Web regardless if I'm using a mouse or touch.

    Moving on to features, my list is short. Improved stability is more important to me than any additional features.

    So by order of importance:

    • Fix app crashing when minimized and when returning from sleep
    • Fix Syncing, as there's currently no good way to sync media on Windows 10 desktop devices
    • Fix the stutter when a video starts playing. I have to pause and wait for the video to buffer before starting it over (Core i7 w/ 32gb ram, transcode speed is not the issue)
    • Return the back button to the main video screen. I know UWP design language states that it should be in the top bar, but it is not a touch friendly soultion
    • Support Live TV

    So making the app more responsive and more stable would be super nice. If we could see the xbox app to be full UWP, most of the complaints from this forum would disappear over night.

    I hope this provides some place to start Chuck.

    Also, if this provides you any more ammo to take up top, here are the Plex Player Forums by number of comments:

    1. Samsung Smart Hub: 40.2K
    2. Android (mobile): 31.2K comments
    3. Android TV/Amazon Fire TV: 30.5K
    4. Plex Classic for Roku: 28.1K
    5. Plex Web App: 23.4K
    6. Plex Media Player: 22.9k
    7. Smart TVs: 16.6K
    8. Roku: 16.4K
    9. Windows Store App: 15.6K
    10. iOS: 15.5K
    11. Apple TV: 15K
    12. Xbox One: 13K
    13. Google Chromecast: 11.6k
    14. PlayStations 5.1K
    15. Plex for Kodi: 3.5K
    16. Voice Control Alexa: 3K
    17. Xbox 360: 1.7K
    18. Sonos Public Beta: 641
    19. Plex VR: 387

    As you can see, The Windows Store App is more active than iOS, AppleTV, Xbox One, Chromecast. All of which get more support than Windows Store App. The exceptions are Android, Roku, and Plex's standalone apps (PMP and Web).

    The community for the Windows Store App is more active and still very significant. These community members are more likely than others to be paying customers that use anything beyond the free tier that Plex offers because they are actually engaged in the forums. Neglecting them is leaving money on the table. Especially considering the Android, Roku, Apple TV, Xbox One, Chromecast apps are all free.

    -Lenaxia

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  • ChuckPAChuckPA Posts: 22,836Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja, Plex Team Member Plex Team Member

    The last time I looked at the "Windows UWP" line, I came up with a combination of over 25 different devices / processors, each of which required a separate binary to be built.

    Can you please clarify and help quantify. I know some are X86_64 machines (I believe the Pro?) while others are a mix of different ARM processors as well as things I've not seen used in tablets (e.g. proprietary)

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  • foxprorawksfoxprorawks Posts: 141Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @ChuckPA said:
    The last time I looked at the "Windows UWP" line, I came up with a combination of over 25 different devices / processors, each of which required a separate binary to be built.

    Can you please clarify and help quantify. I know some are X86_64 machines (I believe the Pro?) while others are a mix of different ARM processors as well as things I've not seen used in tablets (e.g. proprietary)

    The whole point of UWP is that it isn't a separate binary. My company has an app that runs on both Windows Phone, Surface, and PC, a UWP app available on the Windows store.

    We don't compile two or more different binaries to do that. The Plex developers who are working on this will be able to clarify this point.

  • ChuckPAChuckPA Posts: 22,836Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja, Plex Team Member Plex Team Member
    edited May 2

    Respectfully,
    If one UWP product is using an ARM cpu and another uses an X86 or X86_64 CPU, you can be 100% it does use a different binary.

    Edit: Citing Microsoft published documentation:

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/packaging/device-architecture

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  • lenaxialenaxia Posts: 446Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited May 2

    Then let me be more specific.

    Whichever binary I currently use on a Surface Pro 4 or later. It'll either be x64 or x86. I'm guessing this will cover most normal Intel/AMD desktops and laptops.

    And again, if they are willing to rebuild the XBOX app which is x64, to target a Surface Pro, I would also be happy with that.

    ARM should not be part of the discussion. There are no consumer grade ARM devices that run Windows 10 now that windows phone is dead.

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  • foxprorawksfoxprorawks Posts: 141Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @ChuckPA said:
    Respectfully,
    If one UWP product is using an ARM cpu and another uses an X86 or X86_64 CPU, you can be 100% it does use a different binary.

    Edit: Citing Microsoft published documentation:

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/packaging/device-architecture

    Respectfully, from the url you quoted:

    "It is highly recommended that you build your app package to target all architectures."

    This is a setting in the project - the compiler handles this. The source code isn't different for each platform.

    The binary that is delivered to the device is different, but that isn't important to the developer. The code base doesn't change for each platform.

    Again, other companies, including mine, are already doing this.

  • foxprorawksfoxprorawks Posts: 141Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    It is literally ticking a box...

  • foxprorawksfoxprorawks Posts: 141Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @lenaxia said:
    Then let me be more specific.

    Whichever binary I currently use on a Surface Pro 4 or later. It'll either be x64 or x86. I'm guessing this will cover most normal Intel/AMD desktops and laptops.

    And again, if they are willing to rebuild the XBOX app which is x64, to target a Surface Pro, I would also be happy with that.

    ARM should not be part of the discussion. There are no consumer grade ARM devices that run Windows 10 now that windows phone is dead.

    I beg to differ.

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/8/16860932/lenovo-miix-630-windows-arm-laptop-features-pricing-ces-2018

  • ChuckPAChuckPA Posts: 22,836Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja, Plex Team Member Plex Team Member

    @foxprorawks

    By your own example, you're building ARM, X86, and X86_64. That's three different binaries at minimum.

    There are 13 different build "checkmarks" in that table, not 1. The developer isn't going to sit there while it builds different binaries.
    Release builds are done by automation, not by the developer compiling each by hand to 'turn the crank"
    I have been a developer professionally for 37 years now and I've yet to find a compiler which is 100% "the compiler handles it" in every case.

    @lenaxia and @foxprorawks

    This is why I had attempted to find out what could be delayed or dropped some time ago and received the resounding "No".

    I'll refine and restate my request even further.

    "Knowing the Xbox is its own separate build (reference Microsoft architecture table), will a single X86 build only (no ARM) suffice for all other platforms"

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  • foxprorawksfoxprorawks Posts: 141Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @ChuckPA

    "I have been a developer professionally for 37 years now and I've yet to find a compiler which is 100% "the compiler handles it" in every case."

    Your competitors are doing it - they have a UWP app that runs on various devices.

    For what it's worth, I have been a professional developer for over 20 years. The company I work for currently produces a UWP application that runs on multiple devices.

    Have you asked the developers why they can't tick three boxes when compiling the XBox UWP application and see what happens?

    And yes, that can be automated.

    You keep asking what can be delayed or dropped. That is something for Plex to decide, rather than the customers.

    I'm dropping out of this conversation - it seems to be going nowhere.

    I'm resigned to the fact that there will be no future development of the UWP application for anything other than XBox.

  • foxprorawksfoxprorawks Posts: 141Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    This is from Emby's Window's Store page. As you can see, it is possible to support all of these devices. Perhaps Emby has more resources than Plex, who knows...

  • ChuckPAChuckPA Posts: 22,836Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja, Plex Team Member Plex Team Member

    I don't give a rat's XXX about Emby.

    Are you going to argue with me and rub my nose in competitors or are you going to work with me to find a path through?

    FYI: This is my 2nd challenge. If I have to say that again, I'm outta here. Linux is my area and all that's happening here is I'm getting shot because I'm trying to be a good messenger.

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  • WilhelmStrokerWilhelmStroker Posts: 1,686Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    @ChuckPA said:
    I don't give a rat's XXX about Emby.

    Are you going to argue with me and rub my nose in competitors or are you going to work with me to find a path through?

    FYI: This is my 2nd challenge. If I have to say that again, I'm outta here. Linux is my area and all that's happening here is I'm getting shot because I'm trying to be a good messenger.

    You might not give a rat's XXX about Emby, but given it's `your' closest competitor that seems to be able to put out a decent UWP app that runs everywhere, AND that gets updated on a regular basis, Plex will lose plenty of customers to that competitor that are fed up with an app that's not seen an update in over a year. If the Emby guys (who are a MUCH smaller team than Plex) are able to produce something that runs everywhere (like a true UWP app should do, regardless of architecture etc), then why can't Plex do it?
    All people are asking is a yes/no answer. Is it dead? If the answer is yes, then it's time to move on. And yes that could be a competitor that does seem to care about a large part of their user base.

  • ChuckPAChuckPA Posts: 22,836Members, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja, Plex Team Member Plex Team Member

    Again, and for the last time, I've asked and not gotten a definitive answer about what's happening or going to happen with it.
    My most recent conversation with the product team was 30-Apr-2018 and focused on this thread.
    Product announcements must be made by the product team.

    I can only tell you what I, were I not an employee, would do. I am not authorized to make any official product statements.

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