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Dealing with subtitles and "unknown" audio tracks.

jkieljkiel Posts: 560Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
edited April 2013 in macOS/OS X (Mac)

As I posted here (originally in "Ask a Ninja!", but it was moved), when PMS is set to display subtitles with foreign audio, videos that have subtitles and only an audio track marked as "unknown", the subtitles are displayed.

 

Is this a bug, intentional behavior, or is there already a setting to remedy this?  The vast majority of my videos with "unknown" language audio tracks are in my native language.  It would seem that there should be an option to tell PMS that this is the case so subtitles aren't displayed by default on so many of these videos.

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Comments

  • TrudgeTrudge Gone off to greener pastures.... Posts: 9,360Members ✭✭✭
    jkiel wrote on April 7 2013, 2:50 PM: »

    As I posted here (originally in "Ask a Ninja!", but it was moved), when PMS is set to display subtitles with foreign audio, videos that have subtitles and only an audio track marked as "unknown", the subtitles are displayed.

    Is this a bug, intentional behavior, or is there already a setting to remedy this?  The vast majority of my videos with "unknown" language audio tracks are in my native language.  It would seem that there should be an option to tell PMS that this is the case so subtitles aren't displayed by default on so many of these videos.

    flag your media tracks with the correct language(s).

    Primary PMS: Ubuntu 13.10, i7-4771, 16GB Ram, Samsung 840 Pro 512GB
    Media Storage: 2 x ReadyNas Pro Business 18TB mounted by NFS to Plex Server
    Desktop Clients: 1 x Windows 7 27", 1 x 15.4 Retina MBP, 2 x17" MBP, 1 x 13" MB, 1 x13" MBA
    Mobile Clients: 2 x iPhone 5s, 3 x iPhone 5, 3 x iPhone 4s, 3 x iPhone 4, 2 x iPad 3, 2 x iPad 2
    Airplay & PlexConnect Targets: 4 x ATV3
  • jkieljkiel Posts: 560Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited April 2013
    Trudge wrote on April 7 2013, 2:59 PM: »

    flag your media tracks with the correct language(s).

    Individually?  That's a great number of videos to flag.

    How about a default setting for unknown language?

    When audio is "unknown", and PMS is set to display subtitles for "foreign", why should it make the assumption that unknown is foreign?

  • TrudgeTrudge Gone off to greener pastures.... Posts: 9,360Members ✭✭✭
    jkiel wrote on April 7 2013, 3:05 PM: »

    Individually?  That's a great number of videos to flag.

    script/batch something.  If they are mostly all the 1 language it should be pretty easy.

    Primary PMS: Ubuntu 13.10, i7-4771, 16GB Ram, Samsung 840 Pro 512GB
    Media Storage: 2 x ReadyNas Pro Business 18TB mounted by NFS to Plex Server
    Desktop Clients: 1 x Windows 7 27", 1 x 15.4 Retina MBP, 2 x17" MBP, 1 x 13" MB, 1 x13" MBA
    Mobile Clients: 2 x iPhone 5s, 3 x iPhone 5, 3 x iPhone 4s, 3 x iPhone 4, 2 x iPad 3, 2 x iPad 2
    Airplay & PlexConnect Targets: 4 x ATV3
  • jkieljkiel Posts: 560Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    That is much like asking everyone to re-encode their videos so they play correctly on every device, rather than expecting PMS to manage that for you with its transcoder.

    IMO, the better solution is for PMS to allow selection for this behavior, rather than making an incorrect assumption about the media files.

  • TrudgeTrudge Gone off to greener pastures.... Posts: 9,360Members ✭✭✭
    jkiel wrote on April 7 2013, 3:14 PM: »

    That is much like asking everyone to re-encode their videos so they play correctly on every device, rather than expecting PMS to manage that for you with its transcoder.

    You don't have to re-encode anything, no idea what type of media you are using, but with something like an mkv this will take like 1 seconds per file.  I imagine tools will do it just as fast for other containers.

    if you are keen to see it as a feature, then vote for the exiting request it in the features request forum

    Primary PMS: Ubuntu 13.10, i7-4771, 16GB Ram, Samsung 840 Pro 512GB
    Media Storage: 2 x ReadyNas Pro Business 18TB mounted by NFS to Plex Server
    Desktop Clients: 1 x Windows 7 27", 1 x 15.4 Retina MBP, 2 x17" MBP, 1 x 13" MB, 1 x13" MBA
    Mobile Clients: 2 x iPhone 5s, 3 x iPhone 5, 3 x iPhone 4s, 3 x iPhone 4, 2 x iPad 3, 2 x iPad 2
    Airplay & PlexConnect Targets: 4 x ATV3
  • jkieljkiel Posts: 560Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited April 2013
    Trudge wrote on April 7 2013, 3:21 PM: »

    You don't have to re-encode anything, no idea what type of media you are using, but with something like an mkv this will take like 1 seconds per file.  I imagine tools will do it just as fast for other containers.

    Of course you don't have to re-encode, but you do have to touch and modify every affected media file.  Guess I should have chosen a different analogy, but it seemed fitting to me.

    Trudge wrote on April 7 2013, 3:21 PM: »

    if you are keen to see it as a feature, then vote for the exiting request it in the features request forum

    I searched and did not find anything on this issue but my own posts. (And this thread seems to have been now moved to feature/bug voting, even though it wasn't a feature request or a bug report, simply asking if it already is an existing feature or, if not, if it should be considered a bug.  If I was making a feature request  I would have phrased the post completely differently.  By moving this, just as my previous post was moved, it lessens the chance of my questions being directly answered.)  Please point me to the feature/bug report if it already existed.

    Edit:  great -- Now this has been moved to "PMS - Mac".  Is there specific reason for this move, since the questions should relate to PMS in general?

    I believe the moderators here are sending me a clear message.  "Do not ask difficult questions -- the will be moved so they do not get answered."

  • TrudgeTrudge Gone off to greener pastures.... Posts: 9,360Members ✭✭✭
    jkiel wrote on April 7 2013, 3:37 PM: »

     Please point me to the feature/bug report if it already existed.

    Search for "unknown" in the features forum.

    Primary PMS: Ubuntu 13.10, i7-4771, 16GB Ram, Samsung 840 Pro 512GB
    Media Storage: 2 x ReadyNas Pro Business 18TB mounted by NFS to Plex Server
    Desktop Clients: 1 x Windows 7 27", 1 x 15.4 Retina MBP, 2 x17" MBP, 1 x 13" MB, 1 x13" MBA
    Mobile Clients: 2 x iPhone 5s, 3 x iPhone 5, 3 x iPhone 4s, 3 x iPhone 4, 2 x iPad 3, 2 x iPad 2
    Airplay & PlexConnect Targets: 4 x ATV3
  • jkieljkiel Posts: 560Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited April 2013

    If you mean this thread, that is far more vague, dealing with unknown language for subtitles and audio, not just audio.  In that case, PMS appears to do the correct thing by not displaying any subtitles.

    Displaying subtitles when the audio track is unknown is, while referenced in that topic, a more specific subject that has not yet received an answer to the question:  Should this be considered a bug?

    PMS is currently making the assumption that audio tracks with unknown language are foreign.  This, IMO, is an incorrect assumption -- a bug.  I'm not asking for a user vote on the subject, I'm asking for a Plex developer position, hence why I originally posted the question in "Ask A Ninja" -- only to find the question moved yet again.

  • TrudgeTrudge Gone off to greener pastures.... Posts: 9,360Members ✭✭✭
    edited April 2013
    jkiel wrote on April 7 2013, 3:55 PM: »

    If you mean this thread, that is far more vague, dealing with unknown language for subtitles and audio, not just audio.  In that case, PMS appears to do the correct thing by not displaying any subtitles.

    Displaying subtitles when the audio track is unknown is, while referenced in that topic, a more specific subject that has not yet received an answer to the question:  Should this be considered a bug?

    PMS is currently making the assumption that audio tracks with unknown language are foreign.  This, IMO, is an incorrect assumption -- a bug.  I'm not asking for a user vote on the subject, I'm asking for a Plex developer position, hence why I originally posted the question in "Ask A Ninja" -- only to find the question moved yet again.

    try this one -> http://forums.plexapp.com/index.php/topic/52613-subtitle-settings/?hl=unknown

    Ninja's are not developers, the dev's will comment on any thread, in any forum when they choose to.  The Ninja forum is not the "I can't work the search" forum.

    Everybody has their list of "You MUST add/change/fix this" and voting in the features forum is the current way to help filter/build priority around that.

    Primary PMS: Ubuntu 13.10, i7-4771, 16GB Ram, Samsung 840 Pro 512GB
    Media Storage: 2 x ReadyNas Pro Business 18TB mounted by NFS to Plex Server
    Desktop Clients: 1 x Windows 7 27", 1 x 15.4 Retina MBP, 2 x17" MBP, 1 x 13" MB, 1 x13" MBA
    Mobile Clients: 2 x iPhone 5s, 3 x iPhone 5, 3 x iPhone 4s, 3 x iPhone 4, 2 x iPad 3, 2 x iPad 2
    Airplay & PlexConnect Targets: 4 x ATV3
  • jkieljkiel Posts: 560Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited April 2013

    Again, that "feature request" deals with both unknown audio AND subtitles (in addition to unknown audio), asks for more granular control, and does not ask the question, nor receive an answer to it:

    Is this a bug? Should PMS consider unknown language audio tracks to be foreign by default?  While I have a definite opinion on the topic, I'm not yet making a feature request or bug report, I'm asking for clarification on where between feature and bug this issue sits.  It seemed to me that "Ask A Ninja" would be the better place for it, being that is is not specific to PMS Mac or PMS Windows, nor does it need to be seen by every user.

    If there is a way to formally report a bug and track its progress and reclassification, please point me to it.  A single forum topic for users voting on bugs and features, with little to no response from Plex developers, is sorely inadequate for separating the two.

    Trudge wrote on April 7 2013, 4:10 PM: »

    The Ninja forum is not the "I can't work the search" forum.

    No need to be dismissive.

  • FrozenTroutFrozenTrout Posts: 37Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    I have to chime in here, it is a different topic than both unknown audio/unknown subs. It's also complicated by AVI files, which, afaik, do not even support audio language flags. This means you can't just batch update your files to deal with it, and will always have unknown audio language; the only thing you can do is set (or not set) the language of the subs.

  • TrudgeTrudge Gone off to greener pastures.... Posts: 9,360Members ✭✭✭
    FrozenTrout wrote on April 27 2013, 3:27 PM: »

     afaik, do not even support audio language flags. 

    they do.

    http://www.alexander-noe.com/video/amg/en_main_window.html

    Primary PMS: Ubuntu 13.10, i7-4771, 16GB Ram, Samsung 840 Pro 512GB
    Media Storage: 2 x ReadyNas Pro Business 18TB mounted by NFS to Plex Server
    Desktop Clients: 1 x Windows 7 27", 1 x 15.4 Retina MBP, 2 x17" MBP, 1 x 13" MB, 1 x13" MBA
    Mobile Clients: 2 x iPhone 5s, 3 x iPhone 5, 3 x iPhone 4s, 3 x iPhone 4, 2 x iPad 3, 2 x iPad 2
    Airplay & PlexConnect Targets: 4 x ATV3
  • FrozenTroutFrozenTrout Posts: 37Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited April 2013

    Pretty sure that part is for MKV files; per the bottom of page 10 of http://www.alexander-noe.com/video/amg/avi-mux_gui.pdf "There are no language codes in AVI files, thus, if you create an AVI file, any language code you apply is lost."

    *edit* Should clarify, I'm not trying to be argumentative here. If there IS a way to set the language, I'd like to know. And if there's a tool for OS X that would allow me to do so.

  • michael fingiermichael fingier Posts: 4Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    I've got the same things, all my AVI has an unknown audio. I've try to change metadata with AVIabc on windows but it's change nothing in plex !!!

    If someone find somethings, I continue to search but I have no idea.

  • FrozenTroutFrozenTrout Posts: 37Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    Bumping this again... Anyone have an answer? As far as I can tell, AVI files do not support language flags (AVIMux also works with MKVs, which is why it has the option in the UI; using it on an AVI file does not work, and Plex does not see the language). There is also no way to manually set the audio language in Plex, so all AVI files show "unknown" audio language. This screws up the "show subtitles with foreign audio" option, as "unknown" is treated as "foreign."

  • BigWheelBigWheel Posts: 9,913Members, Plex Employee, Plex Pass, Plex Ninja Plex Employee
    edited June 2013

    why don't you just remux the avi into an mkv which would take just as much time and which then you can even embed the subtitle into and do nifty things like force subs for movies with only a few foreign parts. without burning them in.

    Logs > https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/201869908-Log-Files
  • Xaph0dXaph0d Posts: 10Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass
    edited January 2014

    I got here because I got fed up looking at "Audio: Unknown" for all my .avi and other files for which language tagging is impossible.

    Remuxing non-mkv files into mkvs seems to be the only solution proposed here.

    Unfortunately for various reasons I can't do that, so I looked at alternatives.

    First I tried to be clever and made my own MediaInfo.dll.

    Plex asks for "Language/String3" for each stream; I changed MediaInfo.dll so that if the returned string would have been empty, we returned "eng" instead.

    This didn't work.  Looking at the Media Scanner Log Files, Plex first runs MediaInfo and then runs its own internal FFmpeg, which takes priority. (This internal FFmpeg will of course return a language of "".)

    After further faffing around, I finally found where the language is stored in the database - with a bash script and sqlite installed, it is possible to change every stream whose language is undefined to English (or whatever.)

    I use cygwin on a PC, so this is what I did.  Note that Plex should not be running when you execute this as Plex will have the database open.

    cd '/cygdrive/c/Users/YOURNAMEHERE/AppData/Local/Plex Media Server/Plug-in Support/Databases'
     
    echo 'select id from media_streams where language="";' | sqlite3 com.plexapp.plugins.library.db | while read id
    do
         echo $id
         echo 'UPDATE media_streams SET language="eng" WHERE id='$id ';' | sqlite3 com.plexapp.plugins.library.db
    done
     
    Total sqlite n00b here, probably better ways of doing this, but hey, it works for me :-)
     
    EDIT: Having shelled out for a PlexPass, the first thing I do is download the newer Media Server. Which appears to use a completely different database format, so different in fact that sqlite3 says "WTF"?   Oh well, back to the drawing board :-)
    EDIT2: Turns out the cygwin-supplied sqlite3 is ancient.  I grabbed a more up-to-date binary of sqlite3 from the Android SDK.
    EDIT3: I have PMS running on a Linux box now. I run this script every so often (cron.daily) or explicitly after I add media.
    #!/bin/sh
    # Dopey script to change "Unknown" languages to "English" for Plex.
    #
    PLEXDBDIR="/var/lib/plexmediaserver/Library/Application Support/Plex Media Server/Plug-in Support/Databases"
    if [ -d "${PLEXDBDIR}" ]; then
        cd "${PLEXDBDIR}" 
        echo 'select id from media_streams where language="";' | sqlite3 com.plexapp.plugins.library.db | while read id 
        do
            echo $id 
            echo 'UPDATE media_streams SET language="eng" WHERE id='$id ';' | sqlite3 com.plexapp.plugins.library.db
        done
        exit 0
    else
        echo "### Plex Database dir not found"
        exit -1
    fi
  • zaviskozavisko Posts: 3Members

    just wanted to add to this discussion that AVI does support tags and there are also tags for:

    language - ILNG

    audio track 1 language - IAS1

    more about RIFF tags used also in AVI files i found here:

    http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/TagNames/RIFF.html#Info

    but other thing is that i have never seen an AVI file that was tagged propperly, just few files that have a name tag, so if they put that in code i think you will still need to manually edit tags of all avi files and then rescan whole library

    so easiest way for now is to directly update the database :)

  • BsmcclureBsmcclure Posts: 20Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    I would love to have this as a feature as well

  • robgranholmrobgranholm Posts: 14Members, Plex Pass Plex Pass

    ...I'm fine with batch changing a few folders to force language to be English...but how do I do this on Mac... what tools can I use? I have a season of Fullmetal Alchemist that have unknown audio and sub, and I'm sick of playing each individually, and changing the audio to english, as it defaults to chinese, when I want to play them.

    Please let me know how this batch flag changing works.

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