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PGS subtitles crashing Plex


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#1 Osti

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:11 PM

Hi there, fellow Plexians,

Sorry for starting a new thread on this when there already are a couple of threads about it. The thread titles were not entirely intuitive and they seem to have gone dormant for a while so I figured it would be useful to start a specific new thread.

Basically, my issue is that Plex crashes when displaying PGS subtitles from my Blu-Ray rips. I have seen this problem a lot recently. It is 100% reproducible at given spots in the subtitle stream. I tried disabling a/v syncing in the vain hope that would have something to do with it, but to no avail. I have only seen this behavior in the last three months or so, although it happens to BR rips of all ages.

I use MakeMKV to rip my Blu-Ray discs and then compress the resulting files in HandBrake. I then remux the subtitle tracks back in using Mkvtoolnix. The problem with this crash has happened across all films/shows I have made across several recent versions of all three of those apps.

Disabling solves the problem completely. It is a bit sad to do that though, as subtitles are a definite must for my children. Since I make my own mkv's, it is a bit of a pain to use downloaded .srt files as these will often not be an exact match for my files.

I appreciate that problems with subtitles is only a concern for a small group of people, but a solution to this would be much appreciated. Posters submitted crash logs in the other threads (here and here), and mine look identical (to my untrained eye!). I will of course be happy to upload more if it can be of any assistance!

#2 BigWheel

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 09:33 PM

its a year old thread so dunno if steps still work or not but these are steps to convert to idx/sub

http://www.makemkv.c....php?f=4&t=1416

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#3 Osti

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 06:43 AM

BigWheel,

Thanks for you tip. Yes, that still seems to work and I'll consider doing this for my files going forward. However, it will be a lot of work to go back and redo all the old files. Therefore, I was hoping that someone may have a fix or workaround using the existing pgs subtitles.

I'll keep searching!

#4 Trudge

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 07:47 AM

BigWheel,

Thanks for you tip. Yes, that still seems to work and I'll consider doing this for my files going forward. However, it will be a lot of work to go back and redo all the old files. Therefore, I was hoping that someone may have a fix or workaround using the existing pgs subtitles.

I'll keep searching!

Hi,

Info on Plex and subtitles here -> http://wiki.plexapp....e_PMS_Subtitles

PGS subs are still on the "mostly" unsupported list, the only real option is convert or run your PMS and PMC on the same physical hardware for now. (though to be honest - and I can't check from here as I'm remote, but I'm pretty sure I have at least 1 BR with PGS subs that works on OSX clients that are on different hardware than my PMS)
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#5 PandaPCJ

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 04:21 PM

Hi,

Info on Plex and subtitles here -> http://wiki.plexapp....e_PMS_Subtitles

PGS subs are still on the "mostly" unsupported list, the only real option is convert or run your PMS and PMC on the same physical hardware for now. (though to be honest - and I can't check from here as I'm remote, but I'm pretty sure I have at least 1 BR with PGS subs that works on OSX clients that are on different hardware than my PMS)


I'm running PMS and PMC on the same machine yet I still get crashes when displaying certain PGS subtitles (such as Avatar, The Godfather). It'd be great if these worked properly.

#6 hanslucas

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 07:46 AM

Hi,

Info on Plex and subtitles here -> http://wiki.plexapp....e_PMS_Subtitles

PGS subs are still on the "mostly" unsupported list, the only real option is convert or run your PMS and PMC on the same physical hardware for now. (though to be honest - and I can't check from here as I'm remote, but I'm pretty sure I have at least 1 BR with PGS subs that works on OSX clients that are on different hardware than my PMS)


I'm having the same problems. Nowhere in the wiki does it describe Plex's PGS support as "mostly" unsupported, in fact the wiki claims that PGS files are "partially" supported...what does "partially" supported even mean? For a product that claims to be "the solution for your local and online media", extracting and converting subtitles seems unreasonable. XMBC has supported PGS without these kinds of issues for some time.

#7 PandaPCJ

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 08:29 AM

I'm having the same problems. Nowhere in the wiki does it describe Plex's PGS support as "mostly" unsupported, in fact the wiki claims that PGS files are "partially" supported...what does "partially" supported even mean? For a product that claims to be "the solution for your local and online media", extracting and converting subtitles seems unreasonable. XMBC has supported PGS without these kinds of issues for some time.


I don't think it's fair to criticise a great product like Plex because one very particular feature isn't fully working at the moment. They're providing an amazing array of other features for free and I'm sure they're busy working on getting everything else running as well as possible.

Partially supported means exactly that, it's supported but it might not work in all cases. Extracting and converting isn't the way forward, I agree, that's simply an alternative fix until it's all running as it should.

Now, I'm as bummed as the next person due to the subtitles issue and it'd be great to have it working already, but it's important to remember that this is an app under constant development and if for the time being we have to use an alternative solution such as xbmc or vlc for certain movies, then so be it.

And for what it's worth, I believe they're right to claim they're the solution for your local and online media. Out of all the media management tools out there this is still by far my favourite.

So let's not forget how much we're geting for our "buck" here ;)

edit -
While watching the subtitles screencast I noticed this,
Posted Image
I thought it might encourage you knowing that they're working on full support for other formats.

#8 Osti

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 09:01 AM

PandaPCJ,

I agree with your view on what can be demanded or not. My main concern is that the developers are made aware of the issue. Also, if there is anything I can do to assist I'll of course be happy to do so.

However, I'm not sure it's correct to call PGS subtitles support a very particular issue. It seems completely intuitive for anyone converting their Blu-Rays to use the subtitle data already on the disc, particularly since the publicly available subtitles often match only specific files.

Another thing which makes this bug interesting is that it seemed to work fine up until a couple of versions back. I'm not saying that this should make it easy to fix, but it could at least help in identifying the issue.

#9 PandaPCJ

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 09:19 AM

PandaPCJ,

I agree with your view on what can be demanded or not. My main concern is that the developers are made aware of the issue. Also, if there is anything I can do to assist I'll of course be happy to do so.

However, I'm not sure it's correct to call PGS subtitles support a very particular issue. It seems completely intuitive for anyone converting their Blu-Rays to use the subtitle data already on the disc, particularly since the publicly available subtitles often match only specific files.

Another thing which makes this bug interesting is that it seemed to work fine up until a couple of versions back. I'm not saying that this should make it easy to fix, but it could at least help in identifying the issue.

Hey Osti, yeah as I said on my previous post, I fully agree. I was merely replying to hanslucas and pointing out that kinks are to be expected (which I'm sure he's aware of anyway!) :)

#10 Nuke288

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:26 PM

My $0.02 on the "mostly unsupported" issue is that in my experience, PGS subtitles sometimes work fine and in other cases less so - i.e. they crash the client at specific, reproducable points in time during playback. FWIW, this happens even if PMS and PMC are running on the same machine (which they are in my setup). Because of this, playing Blu-ray rips with subtitles enabled can be a bit nerve wrecking, as I never know if and when it will decide to crash the client.

Like previous posters have stated, I consider extracting and remixing subtitles to a different format to be a time consuming stop gap solution, so I probably won't be taking the time to do this. Instead I will simply avoid using subtitles with these rips, and hopefully this problem will be resolved in a future release.

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#11 Trudge

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 12:38 AM

PS to Trudge:
I stole your signature, hope you don't mind ;)

Thief :)

Go nuts, I don't mind at all :)
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#12 madburg

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:47 PM

I run PMS 9.6.3.140 on a virtual mac ox 10.7.3. PMC 9.5.3 on a late 2010 mac mini. What I have observed is the following:

I use handbrake nightly's (which support PGS now). I still demux using HD-DVD-Blu-Ray Stream Extractor which is a front end gui for the eac3to324 tools,the PGS's manually before handbraking to know if there are any forced subs etc... I let handbrake (attempt to) do the work (including PGS's), but I would say 50% of the time the mkv blows up playing on Plex. I then remux the mkv as followed; Using mkvniktools, remove the PGS's that were added by the handbrake encode and re-add (for a lack of better words "freshly") the PGS's that I extracted from the BD manually before hand. 99.99% of the time the mkv now plays with any of the selected PGS subs (I add english and spanish, and forced subs should they exist as a separate PGS tracks, plex doesnt support reading the default and forced flags unfortunitly, we'll be blue in the face before that makes it in, if ever).

I am not total sure but I think the muxers play a role with PGS's, so for an example (not sure how or what muxer Makemkv uses) handbrake de/remuxer for PGS is not the same as mkvnixtools PGS demuxer. But it seams by extracting (demux) of the PGS's via "HD-DVD-Blu-Ray Stream Extractor" is pretty much as raw as can be (what we have to work with). And mkvtoolnix remuxer to add these PGS's in the mkv container is pretty good as well at doing so. I remember only movie that no matter what you did the spanish PGS would always blow up playing via Plex... so I just took it out. I keep PGS's for each encode for hopes of future suppport of PGS external to a container (or something else that I dont know for now :))

Another example of issues is when you pass say a PGS to convert it to an other format via "BDSup2Sub" you will notice some PGS have timing issues in them, etc.. inherent to the source PGS. So some how it seems some PGS readers are better than others of handling these inherent issue and keep on going... where Plex does not.

(BTW, the whole free things is getting very old. Most Plex users purchase one form of mobile client or another. Donations before that. And the Plex integration with various vendors is also $'s, free is things like Plex on ATV, etc... where they cant charge anything.)

#13 Osti

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:14 PM

Madburg,

That is very interesting. I've been using Mkvtoolnix all along, but obviously with different versions of that software. Still getting crashes in quite a few files though. I have a hunch, but that would be very hard to confirm, that files which used to play fine in the Plex (server/client) versions from about a year ago now crash. It may have improved again in recent versions although I haven't seen anything in the patch notes about it.

#14 madburg

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:33 PM

Yeah, i hear you. I just posted the type of setup I am running and the versions of plex to be as descriptive as possible to help anyone (or dev's). I am running the latest mvktoolnix's btw (I always update as updates come with that tool).

What I find strange is how HD is far from HD in relations to support. BD's only come with PGS's so why is support of it so lacking? BD's started the 1080p video revolution (better video) and to go hand in hand with better audio, HD Audio (DTSHD-MA, TrueHD, etc..), yet no HD audio support.

Basically a mess. 1080P video, SRT/etc. SUBS, AAC/AC3/DD audio. Like going through a meat grinder...

#15 msd82

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 06:56 AM

I have the same problem: a BD with PGS subs crashes in reproduceable manner.

Maybe someone needs the crash reports?

Attached Files



#16 Osti

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 07:21 AM

Yeah, i hear you. I just posted the type of setup I am running and the versions of plex to be as descriptive as possible to help anyone (or dev's). I am running the latest mvktoolnix's btw (I always update as updates come with that tool).

What I find strange is how HD is far from HD in relations to support. BD's only come with PGS's so why is support of it so lacking? BD's started the 1080p video revolution (better video) and to go hand in hand with better audio, HD Audio (DTSHD-MA, TrueHD, etc..), yet no HD audio support.

Basically a mess. 1080P video, SRT/etc. SUBS, AAC/AC3/DD audio. Like going through a meat grinder...


Yes, it can certainly feel a bit like two steps forward and one step back at times... Clearly, though, subtitles are only important for a minority of Plex's user base. Also, the .srt subtitles work great for everyone who doesn't rip their own files, which may mean that another significant percentage of users don't see this as a real problem.

From a technical point of view, the PGS subtitles are also a bit lo-tek. They may be HD and all, but they are still just glorified bitmaps. I can imagine that there are all sorts of challenges involved in layering multiple video channels on top of each other, particularly when transcoding. (note: I am a distinctly non-technical person, so this last should be taken with a grain of salt!) So I don't think we should expect this to be worked out anytime soon. It is sad, because it has meant that the rest of my family has started to feel that Plex is the wrong platform for us. I'm still fighting them, but taking 15-30 minutes per film to find and re-synch a .SRT file just to watch a film, I can certainly understand their skepticism.




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