# FLAC Sorting Tags **URL:** \ **Category:** Plex Media Server\ **Tags:** library-management, metadata\ **Created:** [June 30, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/flac-sorting-tags/846035 "2023-06-30T19:57:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![trleith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/plex/user_avatar/forums.plex.tv/trleith/32/170830_2.png) [@trleith](https://forums.plex.tv/u/trleith)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/flac-sorting-tags/846035/1 "2023-06-30T19:57:36Z")
Server Version#: 4.109.2 Player Version#: N/A I’ve read a number of posts about Artist and Album sorting generally in Plex, and about how FLAC defines no standards for naming tag fields, but there seem to be near-universal conventions. I have a meticulously organized and tagged library, and have turned-on Prefer Local Metadata. I did the [Plex Dance](https://forums.plex.tv/t/the-plex-dance/197064). And what Plex does with artist-sorting seems kinda random. I use Picard and SongKong to do my tagging. There’s a post from a year ago that says [a bug had been identified and fixed](https://forums.plex.tv/t/plex-music-agent-not-honoring-embedded-album-artist-sort-tag/795838/3). But it seems kinda random. I have lots of examples. Then there’s “classical music”. What exactly does the Plex Music Agent (I think it’s called) do with tags in general, and with tags in FLAC containers specifically? And what the devil does this mean, exactly? ```auto Tom's PLEX Server — Plex Media Server Logs Filter logs Jun 30, 2023 14:55:49.152 [139850072480568] Warning — Held transaction for too long (/data/jenkins/server/3531215071/Library/MetadataItem.cpp:4012): 0.300000 seconds Jun 30, 2023 14:55:49.158 [139850065668920] Warning — [Lyrics] SLOW QUERY: It took 310.000000 ms to retrieve 14 items. Jun 30, 2023 14:55:49.661 [139850060065592] Warning — Held transaction for too long (/data/jenkins/server/3531215071/Library/MetadataItem.cpp:4012): 0.120000 seconds Jun 30, 2023 14:55:49.847 [139850065668920] Warning — Took too long (0.480000 seconds) to start a transaction on /data/jenkins/server/3531215071/Library/MetadataItem.cpp:1099 Jun 30, 2023 14:55:49.847 [139850065668920] Warning — Transaction that was running was started on thread 139850060065592 at /data/jenkins/server/3531215071/Library/MetadataItem.cpp:1118 Jun 30, 2023 14:55:50.477 [139850060065592] Warning — Held transaction for too long (/data/jenkins/server/3531215071/Library/MetadataItem.cpp:4012): 0.330000 seconds Jun 30, 2023 14:55:59.101 [139850041715512] Error — downloadContainer: expected MediaContainer element, found html Jun 30, 2023 14:55:59.101 [139850041715512] Warning — Subscription: No container available for /tv.plex.providers.epg.cloud:2/metadata/plex%3A%2F%2Fepisode%2F648e6d7e59c84b8d2b945da3 Jun 30, 2023 14:55:59.101 [139850041715512] Error — Subscription: Error refreshing sub: No container found Jun 30, 2023 14:55:59.102 [139850039606072] Error — downloadContainer: expected MediaContainer element, found html Jun 30, 2023 14:55:59.102 [139850039606072] Warning — Subscription: No container available for /tv.plex.providers.epg.cloud:2/metadata/plex%3A%2F%2Fepisode%2F648fbef87ab466661ef13792 Jun 30, 2023 14:55:59.102 [139850039606072] Error — Subscription: Error refreshing sub: No container found Jun 30, 2023 14:55:59.106 [139850043824952] Error — Subscription: Error refreshing sub: Target library section does not exist Jun 30, 2023 14:55:59.107 [139850045934392] Error — Subscription: Error refreshing sub: Target library section does not exist ``` ---
**Author:** ![DTR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc348/32.png) [@DTR](https://forums.plex.tv/u/DTR)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/flac-sorting-tags/846035/2 "2023-07-08T23:13:21Z")
I’m not sure if anything’s been done to address it, but at least at one point Plex would look at the first track scanned in for an artist and use the `ARTISTSORT` field to determine how the artist should be sorted: [Sort Artist tag now matches Artist tag - #12 by SwiftPanda16](https://forums.plex.tv/t/sort-artist-tag-now-matches-artist-tag/795462/12). Can you list a few of the specific examples you mentioned to understand exactly what tags your FLAC files have, and how Plex then sorts the artist? * * * > [@trleith](#): > > And what the devil does this mean, exactly? Those seem unrelated to your question about FLAC tags, but it’s hard to say exactly what’s happening with only a snippet of warnings/errors and not info/debug messages. [Optimizing your database](https://support.plex.tv/articles/226836308-help/) might help with some of the “SLOW QUERY” and “Took too long” warnings. ---
**Author:** ![trleith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/plex/user_avatar/forums.plex.tv/trleith/32/170830_2.png) [@trleith](https://forums.plex.tv/u/trleith)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2023, 5:27am UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/flac-sorting-tags/846035/3 "2023-07-09T05:27:06Z")
Thanks. I think you’ve put me on the right track. Maybe the trouble is the difference between ARTISTSORT and “artist sort”. This got filed as “Maynard Ferguson” ```auto 00000170 6e 67 0a 00 00 00 47 65 6e 72 65 3d 4a 61 7a 7a |ng....Genre=Jazz| 00000180 17 00 00 00 41 72 74 69 73 74 3d 4d 61 79 6e 61 |....Artist=Mayna| 00000190 72 64 20 46 65 72 67 75 73 6f 6e 17 00 00 00 43 |rd Ferguson....C| 000001a0 61 74 61 6c 6f 67 20 23 3d 33 31 34 20 35 32 39 |atalog #=314 529| 000001b0 20 39 30 35 2d 32 1d 00 00 00 61 72 74 69 73 74 | 905-2....artist| 000001c0 20 73 6f 72 74 3d 46 65 72 67 75 73 6f 6e 2c 20 | sort=Ferguson, | 000001d0 4d 61 79 6e 61 72 64 23 00 00 00 61 6c 62 75 6d |Maynard#...album| 000001e0 20 61 72 74 69 73 74 20 73 6f 72 74 3d 46 65 72 | artist sort=Fer| 000001f0 67 75 73 6f 6e 2c 20 4d 61 79 6e 61 72 64 14 00 |guson, Maynard..| 00000200 00 00 53 6f 75 72 63 65 3d 43 44 20 28 4c 6f 73 |..Source=CD (Los| 00000210 73 6c 65 73 73 29 22 00 00 00 45 6e 63 6f 64 65 |sless)"...Encode| ``` This one is correctly filed under Pizzarelli, John ```auto 00000140 54 49 53 54 3d 4a 6f 68 6e 20 50 69 7a 7a 61 72 |TIST=John Pizzar| 00000150 65 6c 6c 69 1b 00 00 00 41 52 54 49 53 54 53 4f |elli....ARTISTSO| 00000160 52 54 3d 50 69 7a 7a 61 72 65 6c 6c 69 2c 20 4a |RT=Pizzarelli, J| 00000170 6f 68 6e 17 00 00 00 41 52 54 49 53 54 53 3d 4a |ohn....ARTISTS=J| 00000180 6f 68 6e 20 50 69 7a 7a 61 72 65 6c 6c 69 1d 00 |ohn Pizzarelli..| 00000190 00 00 41 52 54 49 53 54 53 5f 53 4f 52 54 3d 50 |..ARTISTS_SORT=P| 000001a0 69 7a 7a 61 72 65 6c 6c 69 2c 20 4a 6f 68 6e 17 |izzarelli, John.| 000001b0 00 00 00 42 41 52 43 4f 44 45 3d 30 20 38 39 34 |...BARCODE=0 894| 000 ``` Maybe Plex is case insensitive so “artist” and “ARTIST” are the same, but it doesn’t understand “ARTISTSORT” and “artist sort” as the same thing. I did find [this, which the software engineer in me loves](https://id3lib.sourceforge.net/id3/id3v2.3.0.html), but nobody seems to use the frame names as tags. For example, nobody uses TALB, they use ALBUM. And then there’s the infamous _User defined text information frame_. It seems like [MP3Tag is the almost-standard](https://docs.mp3tag.de/mapping/) in this respect. I would love to have a definitive list of metadata Plex uses, the names of the tags, and whether there are synonyms. How it wants to see multiple values like: ARTIST=Trumpet:Maynard Ferguson ARTIST=Trumpet:Gregg Bissonette versus something like ARTISTS=Trumpet:Maynard Ferguson;Trumpet:Gregg Bissonette or whatever. I can imagine a table for FLAC, MP3, WMA, … even for MKV, MP4, etc. And maybe it knows variations like “This is how DBPoweramp works, that’s how ABCDE does it, this other way is how Picard goes”. I don’t know how it’s best documented. But metadata _is_ a problem, isn’t it? And now I have to go to bed. Thanks again, ``` t ``` ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/plex/original/3X/2/a/2acb9765406f63293d357b4ec509ec39aa28f2ad.png) [@system](https://forums.plex.tv/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 5:27am UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/flac-sorting-tags/846035/4 "2023-10-07T05:27:59Z")
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