# Streaming Brain - discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussions\ **Created:** [October 4, 2016, 12:32am UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501 "2016-10-04T00:32:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Monsters\_Grin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/plex/user_avatar/forums.plex.tv/monsters_grin/32/20166_2.png) [@Monsters\_Grin](https://forums.plex.tv/u/Monsters_Grin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 12:32am UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/1 "2016-10-04T00:32:50Z")
Hi, First of all - thank you for finally adding the option for setting limits to streaming and transcoding. This is log overdue šŸ˜‰ . But I have a quick question - right of the top. Would it really hurt if the option **Maximum simultaneous video transcode** had a value of ā€œ0ā€ on the list?? ---
**Author:** ![anon18523487](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@anon18523487](https://forums.plex.tv/u/anon18523487)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 3:08am UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/2 "2016-10-04T03:08:06Z")
No, but it might confuse some people. ---
**Author:** ![izeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aeb1de/32.png) [@izeen](https://forums.plex.tv/u/izeen)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 6:43am UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/3 "2016-10-04T06:43:02Z")
What message is shown if you have a transcode limit on lets say 8 transcodes and a 9th player starts transcoding what message is shown to that player(if supported ofcourse) ? ---
**Author:** ![Elijah\_Baley](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/plex/user_avatar/forums.plex.tv/elijah_baley/32/10336_2.png) [@Elijah\_Baley](https://forums.plex.tv/u/Elijah_Baley)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 7:03am UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/4 "2016-10-04T07:03:21Z")
**"The Streaming Brain!!!"** If anything sounds like a 50s or 60s horror movie that is it. I can hear the radio ads now: Beware **ā€œThe Streaming Brainā€** it oozes into your house and engulfs your data and spreads copious copies throughout the world. The nefarious evilness of **ā€œThe Streaming Brainā€** must be seen to be believed, but be forewarned **ā€œThe Streaming Brainā€** is so terrifying that you must sign a waver absolving the theater and all others from liability should you be unable to stop screaming or otherwise damage yourself from convulsions caused by **"The Streaming Brain."** **You have been warned.** ---
**Author:** ![celloch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@celloch](https://forums.plex.tv/u/celloch)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 7:56am UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/5 "2016-10-04T07:56:16Z")
It would be useful if you could apply the maximum bit rate to shared users only and give priority to the server owner (like for my current situation where Iā€™m away from home for a while). ---
**Author:** ![gbooker02](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/plex/user_avatar/forums.plex.tv/gbooker02/32/9726_2.png) [@gbooker02](https://forums.plex.tv/u/gbooker02)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/6 "2016-10-04T13:21:50Z")
> @izeen said: > What message is shown if you have a transcode limit on lets say 8 transcodes and a 9th player starts transcoding what message is shown to that player(if supported ofcourse) ? `Not enough CPU for conversion of this item.` > @Elijah_Baley said: > **ā€œThe Streaming Brain!!!ā€** If anything sounds like a 50s or 60s horror movie that is it. I can hear the radio ads now: You forgot `IN 3D!!!!` ---
**Author:** ![Wiidesire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wiidesire](https://forums.plex.tv/u/Wiidesire)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/7 "2016-10-04T13:32:48Z")
I canā€™t test the Streaming Brain myself right now, the [help article](https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/227715247 "help article") doesnā€™t seem to answer my question. Letā€™s say I set the upload to 10 Mbps and limit remote stream quality to no limit (original). Remote clients have Original setting enabled. What happens when a 6 Mbps remote stream is playing and a second one with 6 Mbps is starting? Does it then say ā€œNot enough Internet bandwidth available for this itemā€ or does it intelligently switch the second stream to a transcode (3-4 Mbps)? ---
**Author:** ![gbooker02](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/plex/user_avatar/forums.plex.tv/gbooker02/32/9726_2.png) [@gbooker02](https://forums.plex.tv/u/gbooker02)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/8 "2016-10-04T14:11:03Z")
> @Wiidesire said: > Letā€™s say I set the upload to 10 Mbps and limit remote stream quality to no limit (original). > Remote clients have Original setting enabled. > What happens when a 6 Mbps remote stream is playing and a second one with 6 Mbps is starting? Does it then say ā€œNot enough Internet bandwidth available for this itemā€ or does it intelligently switch the second stream to a transcode (3-4 Mbps)? The first will get 6Mbps. The second will be transcoded down to 2Mbps. This is a total of 8Mbps as only 80% of the total upload limit is given to streaming reservations. The rest is to account for network spikes, network variability, and other traffic. This is, of course, assuming the server is capable of transcoding and the transcode slot pref is set high enough that thereā€™s a slot available. As to what the server tells the client, it actually sends back 3 messages. Iā€™m going to assume that the 6Mbps mentioned above is direct play. The first message is a general message and this would say that it cannot direct play but transcode is ok. The second is the reason the server rejected direct play and this one will say there is not enough bandwidth. The third will be the transcode reason which will say transcode is ok. Additionally it also tells the client how much bandwidth is available in case it wishes to take another action. On the subject of bitrates, be sure to note the last section in the [help article](https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/227715247 "help article") which discusses bitrates. There is a giant difference between average bitrate and max bitrate. The Streaming Brain uses max bitrates for its computations. ---
**Author:** ![charlie2alpha](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/plex/user_avatar/forums.plex.tv/charlie2alpha/32/281791_2.png) [@charlie2alpha](https://forums.plex.tv/u/charlie2alpha)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/9 "2016-10-04T14:11:33Z")
Very good question, I would like the answer to it too. Another possibility would be to just use the left over bandwidth for the second client and seems the most likely to me with the current version of Streaming Brain but itā€™s something that should be configurable by the server admin in the future Edit : it was answered as I was typing this! ---
**Author:** ![AntiTrust](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/plex/user_avatar/forums.plex.tv/antitrust/32/299170_2.png) [@AntiTrust](https://forums.plex.tv/u/AntiTrust)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/10 "2016-10-04T14:19:28Z")
Already having problems after upgrading. My server is hosted in a DC, 1Gbit WAN port. I set the ā€˜Internet upload speedā€™ to 1000Mbps and had at least one user getting ā€œNot enough bandwidth for any playback of this itemā€ while not going over 40Mbps in total BW utilization. Weird. ---
**Author:** ![Wiidesire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wiidesire](https://forums.plex.tv/u/Wiidesire)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/11 "2016-10-04T14:27:02Z")
> @gbooker02 said: > as **only 80% of the total upload limit is given to streaming reservations** > This should be added to the help article in my opinion. > @gbooker02 said: > On the subject of bitrates, be sure to note the last section in the [help article](https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/227715247 "help article") which discusses bitrates. There is a giant difference between average bitrate and max bitrate. The Streaming Brain uses max bitrates for its computations. > I know the difference between CRF and fixed bitrates, so it makes sense for direct play streams. Does the transcoder use a CRF as well or is it fixed? Should be fixed bitrate, right? > @gbooker02 said: > The first message is a general message and this would say that it cannot direct play but transcode is ok. > Wait, didnā€™t you just say the second stream will get transcoded to 2 Mbps automatically? Why is a message appearing? Is it only one click like ā€œOkā€ and then the transcode starts or does the user himself need to choose to transcode after the message appeared? ---
**Author:** ![gbooker02](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/plex/user_avatar/forums.plex.tv/gbooker02/32/9726_2.png) [@gbooker02](https://forums.plex.tv/u/gbooker02)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/12 "2016-10-04T14:28:08Z")
> @Hermann said: > My server is hosted in a DC, 1Gbit WAN port. I set the ā€˜Internet upload speedā€™ to 1000Mbps and had at least one user getting ā€œNot enough bandwidth for any playback of this itemā€ while not going over 40Mbps in total BW utilization. Weird. Can you post the metadata XML for the item the user was trying to play. Also, if you can reproduce, try following [these steps](https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/201643703-Reporting-issues-with-Plex-Media-Server "these steps") to produce log files around the issue. You can disable [debug logging](https://support.plex.tv/articles/201643703-reporting-issues-with-plex-media-server/#toc-1) after youā€™ve reproduced the issue. Please PM me the logs rather than posting them here. ---
**Author:** ![gbooker02](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/plex/user_avatar/forums.plex.tv/gbooker02/32/9726_2.png) [@gbooker02](https://forums.plex.tv/u/gbooker02)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/13 "2016-10-04T14:44:26Z")
> @Wiidesire said: > I know the difference between CRF and fixed bitrates, so it makes sense for direct play streams. Does the transcoder use a CRF as well or is it fixed? Should be fixed bitrate, right? The transcoder sets maximum bitrates when it is used. Nothing prevents the transcoder from choosing to go below that bitrate if the situation warrants (such as a very little motion or a black screen) which is why it is a maximum. > Wait, didnā€™t you just say the second stream will get transcoded to 2 Mbps automatically? Why is a message appearing? Is it only one click like ā€œOkā€ and then the transcode starts or does the user himself need to choose to transcode after the message appeared? These are messages sent to the client, not what the client displays. In this case, the client will not display a message but instead just start straight into the transcode. During playback, if the client has a mechanism to display why transcode is being used instead of direct play (such as a debug screen), itā€™ll then display the direct play messages (in this case). ---
**Author:** ![Wiidesire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wiidesire](https://forums.plex.tv/u/Wiidesire)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/14 "2016-10-04T14:46:25Z")
Thanks @gbooker02, now everything is clear. Havenā€™t thought about the possibility to use a CRF in combination with a maximum Bitrate cap, makes definitely more sense bandwidth wise. ---
**Author:** ![DerrickTheGuyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecd19e/32.png) [@DerrickTheGuyo](https://forums.plex.tv/u/DerrickTheGuyo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/15 "2016-10-04T15:49:26Z")
So since in the past Plex would like to pretty much max out your upload while starting a stream in order to get a nice buffer for the client, does setting say a 9 Mb limit on a 10Mb connection make sure that plex will never ever completely saturate the line? It can be bad when playing online games and suddenly someone starts streaming something and then you get transported to lag city for a while. Also Plex Team, it would be rad if next we could get stream limits that only apply to certain users. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![vertigo235](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/43a26b/32.png) [@vertigo235](https://forums.plex.tv/u/vertigo235)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/16 "2016-10-04T15:56:39Z")
> @TouchMyBox said: > So since in the past Plex would like to pretty much max out your upload while starting a stream in order to get a nice buffer for the client, does setting say a 9 Mb limit on a 10Mb connection make sure that plex will never ever completely saturate the line? It can be bad when playing online games and suddenly someone starts streaming something and then you get transported to lag city for a while. > > Also Plex Team, it would be rad if next we could get stream limits that only apply to certain users. šŸ™‚ Itā€™s stated above that Plex already only uses 80% of the set amount, so itā€™s up to you if you want to set an even lower amount. ---
**Author:** ![gbooker02](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/plex/user_avatar/forums.plex.tv/gbooker02/32/9726_2.png) [@gbooker02](https://forums.plex.tv/u/gbooker02)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/17 "2016-10-04T15:57:58Z")
> @TouchMyBox said: > So since in the past Plex would like to pretty much max out your upload while starting a stream in order to get a nice buffer for the client, does setting say a 9 Mb limit on a 10Mb connection make sure that plex will never ever completely saturate the line? Even more than that, it doesnā€™t saturate the value you give it. Earlier I commented: > only 80% of the total upload limit is given to streaming reservations. The rest is to account for network spikes, network variability, and other traffic. So, even if you set it to 10, it still wonā€™t use it all. Saturating your upstream is very bad and we try to ensure we donā€™t do that. ---
**Author:** ![DerrickTheGuyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecd19e/32.png) [@DerrickTheGuyo](https://forums.plex.tv/u/DerrickTheGuyo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/18 "2016-10-04T17:22:42Z")
Thanks for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![cameron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/plex/user_avatar/forums.plex.tv/cameron/32/91011_2.png) [@cameron](https://forums.plex.tv/u/cameron)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/19 "2016-10-04T18:59:53Z")
> @gbooker02 said: > On the subject of bitrates, be sure to note the last section in the [help article](https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/227715247 "help article") which discusses bitrates. There is a giant difference between average bitrate and max bitrate. The Streaming Brain uses max bitrates for its computations. Is there any way to see what Plex has determined to be our filesā€™ max bitrate? ---
**Author:** ![hthighway](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/plex/user_avatar/forums.plex.tv/hthighway/32/82003_2.png) [@hthighway](https://forums.plex.tv/u/hthighway)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501/20 "2016-10-04T19:04:52Z")
> @cameron said: > > > @gbooker02 said: > > On the subject of bitrates, be sure to note the last section in the [help article](https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/227715247 "help article") which discusses bitrates. There is a giant difference between average bitrate and max bitrate. The Streaming Brain uses max bitrates for its computations. > > Is there any way to see what Plex has determined to be our filesā€™ max bitrate? If you look at the XML of a piece of media you find it in a line similar to this: ```auto requiredBandwidths="5885,5697,5337,5337,5337,5337,5337,5337" ``` [Next page](https://forums.plex.tv/t/streaming-brain-discussion/161501.md?page=2)