Am I seeing your thought process here for first time? Has then been espoused by you in past? You’re saying high-quality version w/ hi-bit audio (4K) but keep another copy that’s very low video bitrate without the hi-res multichannel audio? Just the hi-res audio track itself in a good 1080p file is ~3GB (or more) in size and will equal the size of the audio track in the 4K file. So a “1-2 gigs for a 720/1080 copy” is obtuse and beclowning on multiple levels. And of course HDR->SDR downres/tone map is being done faster than real-time. Anyone running MadVR e.g. is achieving that. (And of course some clients do it well regardless of the server.) But if tone-mapping not done at server level it won’t ever be a ~100% solution; everything else will be akluge and waste of users’ time and effort (transcoding, blah blah blah).
I don’t know if you are seeing for the first (I assume this is sarcasm), I have been saying this for the last couple years now.
yes keep 4k remux with HD audio FOR YOURSELF and for anything that can DIRECT PLAY IT.
If you have the upload speed of ~150+m, you could probably even direct play 4k remotely.
yes.
if you have a 4k remux with hd audio, there is no reason to keep even a 1080 bluray remux with hd audio around.
you can easily keep a ‘good enough’ quality 720 or 1080p rip with ac3 5.1 (or even stereo) around for anyone who can’t direct play the 4k video, so they CAN direct play the 720/1080 copy.
what size/quality those are, is entirely up to you, but my point being is, with a 4k master copy, any other copy is going to be inferior, so you don’t need to waste space trying to keep a 4k master and a 1080 master.
no, it is pointless and counter productive to keep the high res audio with an extra 1080/720 version if you already have 4k+hd audio version.
its completely serious, because the 720/1080 is an EXTRA copy ONLY for those users/devices that cannot direct play 4k+HD audio.
doesn’t really matter what other things are doing, since we are all wanting plex to do it.
I don’t know if you think I am disagreeing with this, but I am not. That does not mean it can’t be worked at from both the client side and the server side.
All I said earlier was make the observation that plex HAS been working at this at the CLIENT level, and whether or not they are working at the server level, we simply do not know.
keeping separate 4k and non-4k content, and any other statements or comments I make, are simply my opinion and recommendations.
everyone here is free to do whatever the heck they want, and I have never stated otherwise.
You don’t keep them in the same library. You keep the 4K HDR Ones in “Movies 4K” or whatever you want to name it, and the 1080/720 whatever you choose in simply “Movies” or whatever you want to name it. Then, you give yourself, and anyone else who can direct play the 4K HDR ones access to that library, and give everyone else access only to the 1080/720 Library. Even if the version selector wasn’t trash, other less advanced users would probably not know what to do with this anyways, so it would be counter-intuitive to let them make that choice. You as the server admin should be making that choice for everyone, until such a time that you CAN keep all of your media in one spot/library, and the client selects the one that is most suited for its playback automatically, but lets face it, that is a loooooong way into the future.
You should name the library “Movies not on Plex” to simultaneously avoid confusion with the VOD service, and add confusion to your users. 
Given the humongous file sizes of remuxes, and all the trouble getting 4K titles to play back with their HDR intact, and their HD audio, and their subs when needed, all at the same time, am I the only person who thinks it’s not worth trying with Plex? Seems like it’s a lot less hassle to just play the Ultra HD Bluray disc like a normal person. Rip the plain BD for your tablet/phone/remote playback needs.
I am not sure what you’re talking about, I play 4K HDR just fine both locally and remotely. In fact, I am in Kansas City, and I have a user in Florida, a user in Maine, and a User in California who all stream 4K HDR remotely without a problem. I however, have the benefit of a Gigabit fiber connection, soon to be 10Gigabit. And it wasn’t a hassle to setup, it was actually quite easy, once you understand what causes things to mess up.
Exactly…
I have nothing even close to even Gigabit at home.
My server is remote and I have zero issues ever playing any 4K HDR remuxes (on a non abysmal client.)
Throw PGS subs into the mix…and nothing changes.
It’s clearly not that easy for most people, or you wouldn’t see threads on this forum all the time about 4K playback issues.
O.T. amusing: You’re less than an hour’s drive from me.
It’s a forum. You will see contradictory threads on any subject always.
4K capable tv, 4K capable AV receiver, 4K (speed) capable network and a half decent 4K Plex client…beyond that there isn’t much to discuss.
Trying to blanket any mention (in any unquoted thread) of 4K and playback issues is quite frankly ridiculous.
Clients are important… Far more important than the server when it comes to direct play.
I have an Amazon Fire Stick 4K here among other clients, and a copy of a movie in 4K HDR. It has a 7.1 TrueHD audio track and an AC3 5.1 version of the audio. And SRT subs.
vid+7.1+subs = Transcoded video, transcoded audio.
vid+5.1+subs = Direct play.
vid+7.1 = Direct play video / transcoded audio.
This is hooked up to a non-HDR display. When the video is transcoded, the video has the look everyone describes (lower contrast, greyer blacks, muted colors). When the video is direct playing, it honestly looks fine to me. It’s not HDR of course (that’s impossible), but the blacks are black, whites are white, there are midtones, and the colors are definitely there.
Is the Fire Stick remapping things to adjust for the fact it’s on a non-HDR display, or am I just that bad a judge of video quality? The movie seems perfectly watchable. I’ve taken the Fire Stick and connected it to a cheap 720p TV and gotten the same results.
If the Firestick was plugged into an AVR that could handle the Audio then direct play, your TV can’t.
Yeah, sorry for my lack of clarity there. This wasn’t about the audio format support.
I’m really more trying to figure out if I’m “missing something” here from my playing around with the Fire Stick. If you can take an 4K/HDR capable player and connect it to a plain SDR display, and get watchable results – why are people so concerned about getting HDR > SDR mapping on transcoding? Why aren’t they just replacing their clients with something that can support Direct Play of those files? This just-past holiday season you could get a Fire Stick 4K for $25. That’s like the cost of two movie tickets (with no concessions). And if you’re a Roku person, the Roku Stick+ likely would work as well and can be had relatively cheap, too. I just tried Plex Media Player and it’s the same – watchable downscaled, non-transcoded video on my PC.
Is this really just about mobile devices? Because I’m trying to think of anything else Plex-client-wise that you couldn’t cheaply replace with a 4K capable streaming box to get direct play.
I’m more on your side of the argument than nit picking a current capability of Plex.
I have setups in my own house where I have 1080p playback devices in surround setups, and 4K playback devices in surround setups. So I need directplay of hi-res audio in ALL settings, 1080p and 4K source material. And I have users who want to play, remotely, hi-quality at 20 Mbps and can’t countenance 1) washed out colors from 4K transcodes, and 2) low-quality audio (because the hi-res audio will transcode will by Plex from TrueHD, e.g., to EAC3 7.1 768kbps). (Once you take a 4K, or 1080p hi bit rate, source file and compress it down to <2GB you’ll get artifacts and banding esp in dark scenes. No bueno.) In short, I need directplay of very high-qual 1080p material, with hi-res audio, and transcoding 4K HDR->1080p SDR is not “Plex doable” at present so a 4K copy, and a “throwaway” low-quality “1-2 GB” 720p or 1080p copy, will not suffice for my, or my users’, needs and would be a waste of storage space for sh**ty source playback material.
RE: “out of state,” remote playback of HDR material, would be interested to know (of course) if it’s direct playing for the clients. (Which obv would require ~100-300mbps server internet upload speeds.) Would assume it would be if they weren;t complaining of weird colors.
It Direct Plays in all cases. For clients that cannot direct play 4K HDR, I do not share that library. I have, as stated before, a Gigabit connection.
To be fair, I see threads about playback issues, not just 4K playback issues… Some people can plex, some people can’t (yes I turned it into a verb). The biggest issue with support forums I see is that it’s mostly complaints, and sometimes, when we’re specifically looking for our complaint, we only see the others complaining about our topic, and not the 10,000 other semi-related topics. The other thing sort of skewing the numbers is how far hardware has come along, most people have desktop chips that can easily transcode at least 1-2 streams of 1080p, but very few people have chips that can transcode 4K HDR, couple that with the fact that during transcode of 4K you get washed out colors, and you have a recipe for disaster.
Personally, if you ask me, any transcoding is because plex is trying to overcome an obstacle that it shouldn’t have to overcome. Every server should be trying to get Plex to transcode as little as possible, because it eliminates issues and makes Plex’s job easier, which coincidentally saves electricity too. That’s just my personal mantra, but people who have a high transcode rate I feel are more likely to have a problem than people with a low transcode rate.
O.T. I actually live in Grandview, but I say Kansas City cause most people know that, nearly no one knows Grandview 
So you are an exception, see the phrase we’re I stated use the alternative quality that YOU choose?
If you’re going down to 1080p/h264 then it is better than real-time IIRC.
I run my Plex server on Vultr VPS located as close to majority of my client users so it offers amazing connection speeds. I also pre-convert everything I share to 720p/AAC stereo so everything can be direct played. My server is low power so my problem is if any user sets up a new Plex device and starts transcoding it ruins it for all users when the VPS chokes. So the new feature to disable transcoding in settings is awesome for my setup. It is having issues but they are working on a fix for the next Plex BETA. But once it is working correctly I will merge my 4K movies into my main collection and offer my more power users the option to play 4K Remuxs without the worry of choking my VPS. And honestly I make good conversions and never have complaints about quality but let me tell you as soon as something buffers because of god knows how their home network is setup then I hear about it.
Tone Mapping is a crucial feature, which Plex is missing. Ideally , I would have the option to tone map and transcode in hardware (GTX 1660) and that would only require people to upgrade their GPU, since the CPU is not used that much.
A lot of people are just trying to share the movies they own with friends and family. I am ripping my 4K UHD movies and Blu Rays and share them with just some friends and family. I don’t want to have to spend too much time on maintaining my library by always needing to find a 720p or 1080p version for streaming. That’s where tone mapping and transcoding 4k UHD comes in. I hope Plex decides to make this a priority and we can get this feature soon.
When you buy a UHD BluRay it comes with a BluRay copy 99.9% of the time (I think TV Shows is the only place I’ve seen that not happen). So… If you’re indeed ripping your own UHD’s, you should be able to grab the other disc in the case, and rip the 1080p.
Simple fact: Storage prices are ~ $0.02/GB. Meaning, for an 8GB (Obviously compressed) 1080p copy, you’re using about $0.16 worth of storage. Using your 1660 as an example, that card is roughly $230.00. That means for the $230 you’d spend on being able to transcode ~12 movies at once (That card is software limited to 2, but you can unlock it to do more, my 1070Ti does about 16 1080->1080 without breaking a sweat), you could buy enough storage for 1,437 movies at roughly 8GB each, and be able to direct play hundreds of them at once.
All while saving yourself electricity, providing a better playback experience, and keeping your hardware from working itself to death in the process…
