Default All Clients to Max Internet Streaming

Feature Suggestions
515

Out of curiosity, has there been any thought or work on the client end to recommend to the user they can change the settings and simplify that process?

  1. Client side app can test bandwidth over time
  2. If bandwidth allows, pop-up asks if they would like to improve the quality
  3. Pop-up either takes them to the recommended setting to change, or they just agree to change it to the recommended setting in the pop-up

I feel like this solves for both use cases. Users who are missing out on improved quality are properly informed of the option. Server Admins do not need to explain to grandparents how settings work in the app. Users who truly have low bandwidth are not shooting themselves in the foot by increasing the quality because it is not forced on them.

2 Likes
516

We’ll handle all of those kind of scenarios on the client side in an intuitive way with what we’re working on :slight_smile:

1 Like
517

thanks

518

I’m using a Dell T30 server, which is very popular platform for Plex.

519

I didn’t say that no one used them, I just said that it’s not representative of the vast majority of users

520

Slowly I feel really ignored.

My requests and problems are never answered and here you discuss things that make no sense at all or have already been chewed over 20 times.

@DaveBinM

Where exactly did you state that it is a bad idea for the server admin to make the settings for the users? Didn’t find the post and am very interested to read the answer. For me this statement makes no sense as it was said here now.
Only the server admin really knows his users and not a programmer somewhere in the world.

@ChuckPa

Again, your statement makes 0 sense. Why should my settings, which I want to set for the respective user, affect another server?
I don’t want to adjust any local settings which are then valid globally, then the server admins would hinder each other. But I want to set which settings apply when the respective user wants to play something on my server, period!
It can definitely not be so difficult to set that the client depending on the server he accesses the settings according to the default of the server admin and then plays. This can be compared to user policies on a Windows or Linux server where people access remotely from outside. There you can also set everything possible per user before and when connecting these guidelines are then set for this user.
Moreover, this scenario with multiple servers probably applies to only 1% of all users, if at all. Of my 60+ users, each has only my server and 60% of them are already overwhelmed by having to make only 4 changes in the settings to the bad default settings that are currently set.

So the problem is really acute in my eyes and here they talk about a super solution that should solve all the problems. But I seriously wonder how this is possible. It can only be some kind of auto function that measures the connection and then supposedly sets it perfectly. The only question is whether this does not lead to more problems. I have my doubts, because there are always connections that fluctuate extremely, just the whole P2MP connections which are then often overbooked in the evening, that would mean that he constantly changes the resolutions which in my eyes and for my understanding leads to even more transcoding.

I know from all my users, every device they use, every ISP and every speed. So I know exactly what I have to set for whom. I also don’t see the problem with mobile devices. They come over cellular IP’s and for that you could set different quality settings and agree that with the user if they have GB limitation. But just as an example. This is also almost non-existent in Switzerland. 99 have an unlimited offer. So even there you would not have to pay much attention to the data consumption. Therefore I say yes. It is so individual that simply the server admin must set. He knows his users to 95% sure personally and knows what is best for you and him, or his server.

I effectively have the feeling on the Plex side that server admins have no idea what they are doing and therefore want to control or automate everything. Only I’m sure that 99% of all server admins who share their servers with friends know exactly what to do if they were just given the settings options. I just don’t understand the problem. Bring your super automated new feature for all I care. But let the admins who know what you are doing keep control. Because currently I don’t feel in the role of an admin, as I can actually only control when I record and what I offer, but not what the particular user sets, that’s a disaster. I can’t control what the users do, I’ve had days where 30 people transcoded and the server crashed. Although everything was set at the beginning, but as already mentioned several times, Plex has the disease to reset everything again and again and then the admin is simply powerless. Respectively, he must then write all individual again because of the settings and again many are not professionals. This is not done in 2-3 minutes for many. So actually one server admin is always exploited and punished. With the only correct solution I would have to set everything once and then I would have peace. Takes maybe then per user a few minutes, but then only once or maybe every few years again what if he changes the ISP or gets faster speed. No more. For me the case is clear, only here some seem to think too far and forget what would be possible with policies on server queries and that can definitely not be a difficult thing to implement because this has nowadays every Windows and Linux device and you can always control everything as an admin if you want and that’s what it’s all about in my opinion. I want it that way so I set it fix. Will I not bother come your default settings or your new oh so wonderful new solution about the 0 information. But again in my eyes this solution can’t possibly be as good and resource saving as if the admin could set it. We are not that far with AI and any routines yet.

1 Like
521

I’ve went through so many emotions reading the last 100 posts.

Frustration being the biggest one. It’s clear to me now that the staff can’t do anything in regards to this issue. I don’t even know why we even bother at this point. They simply take whatever issues we express and flip it with a excuse about why it won’t work. The fact is the current setup doesn’t work.

The posts I’ve read about the new feature makes me feel like it won’t be what we want — because the staff simply won’t listen. We know what we want! It’s obvious from the 500+ posts from this thread.

The thing that makes me mad is the staff keeps mentioning the end users like they have people signing up for Plex on their own. You guys fail to realize that us server owners brought you every end user thats on Plex. Non of my users even knew what Plex was before me. If I decide to switch from Plex every single one of them will ditch Plex without a second thought.

12 Likes
522

That is exactly the point! You get the feeling that the people in charge of Plex Inc. think that a large part will stay even without one of the server admins.

But that is definitely not the case. Even my 60+ users only know Plex thanks to me and wouldn’t stay without my database. Apart from the fact that Plex itself only favors English-speaking users, with their offer of movies and series.

I’m really disappointed that we, who helped Plex to become so popular and what it is today, are ignored so much and declared incompetent.

There is no other way to understand many of the statements. For me, the highly praised feature is only useful for admins and users who probably have no idea. For all who understand something about the matter or have acquired this knowledge in the last 10+ years like me, it will continue to hinder a good server service. Already now so many problems have to be solved in a complicated way because Plex solved it badly. Have explained it enough in my posts above, although no one has ever commented on it. Too bad about all the know-how that is ignored here and the admins are not involved. Thought actually that software production lives from customer feedbacks and is improved and optimized by it. Unfortunately, no one seems to know that at Plex.

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523

THIS.

Most of my users don’t even know what Plex is and think my server is called Plex.

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524

I still think it’s a real shame we ain’t hearing anything from this guy after the wild statement he made on July 20th. Last year. That right here gave me the hopes something actually was going to be done but again Plex let’s the server admins down like always. And like you all are saying is not many of the regular users on our servers have no use or knowledge of Plex if it wasn’t for us.

5 Likes
525

Ditto. People who have installed PMS are the users, not the people that have installed a Plex app. Those are my server’s clients.

6 Likes
526

Based on the details around Plex’s latest round of funding (google it for yourself, April 2021, or look at the Plex blog) - I think it’s pretty clear Plex is trying to move their reliance off of server admins.

They think they will make good money on free streaming ad-dollars, like a Pluto or Crackle or whatever else is out there (HA).

Whether or not that will work out for them remains to be seen. Ad-supported streaming is a tough business. Folks I know will hop to the nearest free streaming service without a second thought. For them to want to rely on that is mind boggling to me. They’re a fickle source of revenue compared to Server Admins.

I’m not surprised to see Plex doing this, but I am surprised in how quickly certain core features are being put on the back burner. It risks pulling out the chair from under the business

You’d think they’d throw admins a bone every once in a while - like this feature. I’m sure your free streaming analytics numbers are impressive, but remember many of those hits are just opportunistic folks that will drop you in a moment.

We’re your biggest fans and most loyal supporters, Plex. We’re being a pain in the ass because we want to stay!

Later edit: In an attempt to get server admins back in the game, I have created a feature request about an “add-on” donation subscription. If interested - check it out. ( Below is the link after mods merged it into another donation feature request. )

4 Likes
527

I mentioned it back here, in response to the suggestion of it: Default All Clients to Max Internet Streaming - #312 by DaveBinM. Personally, I don’t think it’s realistic that everyone knows every detail of every connection (which are not consistent, and can change based on other network traffic, WiFi interference, ISPs, or any other myriad of things). While you might have a rough idea on what to expect, we’re confident that what we’re currently prototyping will be able to reliably handle any changes in network conditions to maximise the quality for clients, and minimise the amount of transcoding needed.

As for the other things, I’ve said fairly clearly that server-side settings like that are not something we’re considering.

1 Like
528

We’ve not disputed that the current situation is not ideal, however, we are trying to look at a more holistic solution that is easy for everyone and intuitive, and does not require server admins having to undertake work in changing things for different clients or users. While the solution may not be exactly what you envisioned, we are confident it will resolve the actual root issue, and improve the quality for clients, and minimise transcoding as much as possible.

2 Likes
529

I think that’s a bad move for server admins. Perhaps I don’t want a client to transcode when their network conditions change, and I want them to buffer. Perhaps I don’t. That’s a decision that should be made on a server by server basis.

Again, and I can’t stress this enough, MY server, MY hardware, MY resources, MY decision. If Plex starts building contrary to that principle, then you’re going to lose server admins, which translates to at least one Plex user lost (and in most cases many more since the users that aren’t server admins will go wherever their server admins go).

I like Plex, it’s one of my favorite pieces of software. But if it starts adopting a pattern of using my hardware in a way that I don’t approve of, without giving me the options to control that (instead of treating it like the bug that it is), I’m going to leave. And it’s a damn shame that I paid for a lifetime membership if that happens.

Edit: this was supposed to be a reply to Default All Clients to Max Internet Streaming - #527 by DaveBinM

5 Likes
530

We will handle some buffering, and it will be up to the end user if they stick with their current quality or not, we won’t force it on them. So users will not be forced to a transcode without their consent (and you can always disable transcoding server side, if you wish). I should stress that what we’re working on will still greatly reduce transcoding situations in general from the outset, rather than how it is today.

2 Likes
531

Great! Give server admins some control as well (EDIT: more control than just allowing us to disable transcoding overall), and we’ll be on the same page.

I’d be happy if I can say that if the client’s network conditions drop below a certain bandwidth, then let them buffer, e.g. if the client can handle 1080p then transcode down to whatever bandwidth that would require, but if they need to transcode to lower than that, just make them buffer.

Also, will this mode be the default? Because if not, we’re right back at square one.

2 Likes
532

As I’ve previously stated, this work is primarily client-side focused, rather than server-side focused. This mode will be the default at some point in the future, but not initially. Once we’re satisfied with how it’s working internally, then we’ll most likely have a closed beta, before opening it up more widely to a forum preview. This is currently being prototyped on one client, and once we think it’s looking good, then it will get to other clients too.

533

So Plex’s solution to a server issue is to make a client side solution that doesn’t necessarily help the server (despite what you claim)?

3 Likes
534

Well, given the original request was to change the default on clients to Max Internet Streaming :stuck_out_tongue:
But I’d urge you to withhold at least some judgement until you’ve had a chance to look at it in practice, and see how it works in real usage.

3 Likes