Default All Clients to Max Internet Streaming

@DaveBinM made it sound like some of the alternatives are viable, but since the decision was to go forward with the Plex solution, they’re not going to abandon that.

Last July @elan said it wouldn’t take a year. While I’m sure that’s open to interpretation, and the chief reason that ETAs aren’t usually discussed, that’s an additional reason folks are on the edge of their seats about this. Aside from the fact that there are server admins suffering because of it.

And yes we are suffering. Some of us are just nice people who sacrifice their time managing our server for others with absolutely no gain. Every time a user upgrades a streaming device, or a buggy client resets their bandwidth settings, it costs us time and causes frustration, aside from the additional load on our servers until we can actually resolve it.

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Things happen that delay plans for all sorts of reasons. I understand folks are on edge and I don’t begrudge them for it. However folks saying things like “Plex doesn’t care about it’s users”, simply isn’t going to make things happen faster.

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I tried to tell him to go read the thread, but Plex not listening seems to be the current trend.

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You should read all my actual replies and not pick and choose just to cause uproar

I know some are saying “Plex doesn’t care about it’s users”, and I disagree with that.

What I do see is that Plex is struggling as it scales, and has a user problem. Currently most users on Plex are here because they are either:

A. A server admin
B. Are connected to a server admin

Plex is trying to provide offerings and services to entice users to join / stay because that’s what its business model / investors need.

So there’s a delicate juggling act between the needs of server admins and users. Sometimes the ball drops and we have a Plex employee telling server admins who dedicate time, hardware, and money (because time, hardware, electricity, etc… cost money) that they can’t be allowed to control how clients connect to their server because it will degrade their experience.

So server admins feel like Plex is ready to throw us under the bus in order to keep “users” happy.

Maybe the day will come that Plex has a compelling enough offering that it will be able to retain/gain users without server admins. Seems like a mighty risky bet, and the way server admins are dealt with should probably be revisited.

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Again. as I have already said we are working on something to address this. If you choose not to believe me or choose to think it should happen in X amount of time. Then there is nothing I can do about that.

If folks choose to make up conspiracy theories saying things like we only care about X and not Y they are not helping anything in the process of making a solution happen or happen faster

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You literally came into this thread without realizing that the original feature request has evolved and offered a solution that has been suggested over and over again but doesn’t actually solve the problem. That solution is more like sweeping it under the rug and will create even more confusion, chaos, and work for server admins.

There are simple temporary solutions that shift the scale from lots of people having issues to only a few minority of people having issues. Change the defaults until the new solution is ready. Less people will have problems overall.

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Except the people who need transcoding for various reasons and would have the same difficulty in digging into settings to change it to what they want. Because bandwidth is more important than transcoding to many as the example I gave previously.

I literally came into this thread to tell a user that insulting others and complaining doesn’t make things happen faster.

I literally pointed out the original request because I was told “Literally no one asked for that.”

I am aware of the variations on the idea as I have mentioned in other replies. That is literally why this topic is not closed. If you choose to simply not believe me then OK, but that won’t make it happen faster either.

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Sounds like there are many different scenarios that need to be accounted for, and the best way to address it would be to allow the server admin to choose since they know their situation best AND the server belongs to them. Plex decided to go a different route, and based on what we’ve heard so far, it’s ambitious, and may or may not help. That’s pretty much where we’re at.

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Yep. I’m 99% sure the end result is going to be another buggy mess that we didn’t ask for, accounting for scenarios that we didn’t ask for, giving control to users that didn’t ask for it.

Plex’s new solution seems to be accounting for the following (based on completely wrong assumptions):

  • Mid stream quality change based on bandwidth: Plex can’t even correctly set the quality at the beginning, and hasn’t been able to. I don’t exactly have confidence that they’ll be able to solve this properly. Best of all, this isn’t even an issue, nor have we asked Plex to solve it. Most people have a stable connection, as in constantly slow, or constantly fast. Fairly certain, it’s only a minority that are constantly oscillating between high speed and can’t stream, must transcode to 8 mbps. My guess is that if the user has anything but a perfect stable high speed connection, it’ll transcode so that users can have a “consistent experience”.

  • Users being prompted to change settings: My next guess is that if a user is prompted at all about anything relevant, I’m confident my users will just dismiss it, so they can continue watching. How do I know this? I use tautulli to kill certain streams, and rather than reading the actual message, or trying to understand what is going on, users continue to smash the play button, and continue to get their stream killed for 10 min straight, according to logs.

  • What if a user has access to multiple servers? Once again, the fact that this has been repeated by Plex employees, as the reason that their current over-engineered solution is better just goes to show the disconnect.

Literally no one is asking to absolutely control user’s stream settings from all servers. The OP asked for it initially, and has since suggested a more nuanced solution. I’m confident that any users that actually ask for “Set everyone to direct play” are beyond frustrated and are suggesting the SIMPLEST solution that would take 5 min, because asking anything even slightly more complicated would take years to implement (as evidenced by this, and all the other ignored feature request threads).

Users can have all the control they want, but the DEFAULT should be in the server’s control. Let me repeat it: Default Default DEFAULT.

If they connect to MY SERVER, why aren’t they using MY preferences. It’s my CPU time, my electricity, my bandwidth, and MY media. MY money to buy content, MY time to rip it, , my $ to store it, my time to organize it. Even if I weren’t asking just for defaults, and asking for absolute control when they are connected to MY server, what is Plex’s problem???

Plex seems convinced, for some reason, that it is their server, and want to offer the "“best, most consistent” solution for the user as if the user is theirs. What they seem to be missing is that they are irrelevant. My users don’t know or care about Plex, and will stop using it as soon as I do.

Your reputation, and software is not on the line. If something doesn’t work, or quality is low, or something buffers, my users already complain to me, so please get out of the way and serve your job as a medium between server owners, and shared users and give me the settings I need. I’m not asking for absolute control over users connected to my server because that would mean another 5 years of debate, so I’m just asking for defaults.

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This is absolutely how most people in this thread, including me, feel. Good point that we already implement a sort of fix by auto killing streams with Tautulli. The users absolutely do not read the kill message. Continue to slam play and then text/call us why it’s not working when the kill message literally tells them the answer. So Plex wants to give control to users when the users don’t know what the hell they are even doing nor could they ever understand it anyways. We already have a 3rd party solution to not allow certain users to transcode with Tautulli but that doesn’t solve the underlying problem that is running rampant in this thread… which is giving server admins the control of how media is streamed from OUR servers.

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As someone who both uses remote play on a regular basis and who also owns a server, if Plex is able to pull off the solution they suggest (default play when codec support/internet speed allows it and transcode where necessary), it sounds like the best solution from my perspective, because it seems like it should be a good balance of not transcoding when it doesn’t need to, while not degrading the user’s experience with unnecessary stuttering. At the end of the day Plex has to cater to everyone, not just those with servers shared with dozens of users (which I doubt are the close to the majority of Plex’s users).

Although it would be nice to have more graceful fallback options when transcoding is disabled, but I can see why Plex would put the engineering resources into this solution, rather than the so called ‘5 minute’ change that has been suggested (a timeframe obviously suggested by people who haven’t dealt with the implementation hell that is multiplatform video, not including the normal overheads of testing, getting feedback, reviewing changes across several codebases, etc.)

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Thank you for a super reasonable take.

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Yeah and you were wrong which was pointed out to you by multiple ppl, yet you keep repeating it.

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@elan a majority of us (even me that wanted the defaults changed) realize what you guys are trying to do… we get it… we would love the solution you guys are trying to implement if it solves the problem.

The issue is we don’t have any real insight into the solution nor an eta on when the beta will rollout. I think if you guys let us in on the proposed solution everyone would be content in knowing we are either getting what we wanted or not.

At the end of the day you can’t please everyone but throwing us a bone and giving us some info isn’t too much to ask for with how patient everyone has been up until now.

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That seems to be implying that all the other takes are unreasonable, which is unreasonable.

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Stop looking for a fight, I just appreciated what @shea9872 said.

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I have nothing else to do tonight because there are too many streams unnecessarily transcoding on my computer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Yep. Just letting you know that you’re not alone in reading it that way, probably because it was meant to implicitly call out everyone not taking their solution as the be-all and end-all, while still providing deniability if you point it out.

Really hoping I’m wrong and the solution delivers, because this thread and the promise of a solution is the only thing keeping me from switching to JF as well.

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JF lacks client support (among other things). No time to switch yet, sadly.