@jmckee said:
Games and the Media player are separate functions, for the most part games and Microsoft’s dlna player have more access to underlying features as they are a lot more controlled environments. 3rd party Apps will sometimes get artificial restrictions placed on them. This is another one of those cases that switching to UWP relieves a number of them as the framework is newer and has access to somethings that the older non-UWP apps did not.
Thanks a lot for extensive explanation. What I would like to do next is to test how audio is really handled right now. And I have found the way. There is a test tones files provided by Dolby. You can easily distinguish upper channels from normal channels. I have imported those to Audacity and… in Audacity you cannot distinguish upper channels. Positioning metadata is ignored or lost. In Movies and TV app on PC positioning is working. You can clearly distinguish the change. I will test it on Xbox and will get back with results.
Hello, again,
So I used dolby test tones files (7.1.4) and I can tell that Dolby for Headphones works for Plex on Xbox audio. dolby.com/us/en/guide/test-tones.html
Test:
Switch to stereo - disable spatial sound.
Playback right front channel
Playback right upper channel - result: no difference for right front
Switch to Dolby for headphones
Playback right front channel
Playback right upper channel - result: you can hear that it slightly upper than right front, not much, but you can distinguish that. And it is totally different from right front or right upper in stereo.
I can now make a conclusion that Plex is working with Dolby Atmos tracks in DD+ using Dolby Access app.
So you mean there actually is dolby atmos sound, even it is not visible on the avr like it is when playing an atmos title on netflix or bluray?
BTW have you tried this with Dolby Atmos for headphones? What do you think?
@jmckee said:
Games and the Media player are separate functions, for the most part games and Microsoft’s dlna player have more access to underlying features as they are a lot more controlled environments. 3rd party Apps will sometimes get artificial restrictions placed on them. This is another one of those cases that switching to UWP relieves a number of them as the framework is newer and has access to somethings that the older non-UWP apps did not.
Thanks a lot for extensive explanation. What I would like to do next is to test how audio is really handled right now. And I have found the way. There is a test tones files provided by Dolby. You can easily distinguish upper channels from normal channels. I have imported those to Audacity and… in Audacity you cannot distinguish upper channels. Positioning metadata is ignored or lost. In Movies and TV app on PC positioning is working. You can clearly distinguish the change. I will test it on Xbox and will get back with results.
Hello, again,
So I used dolby test tones files (7.1.4) and I can tell that Dolby for Headphones works for Plex on Xbox audio. dolby.com/us/en/guide/test-tones.html
Test:
Switch to stereo - disable spatial sound.
Playback right front channel
Playback right upper channel - result: no difference for right front
Switch to Dolby for headphones
Playback right front channel
Playback right upper channel - result: you can hear that it slightly upper than right front, not much, but you can distinguish that. And it is totally different from right front or right upper in stereo.
I can now make a conclusion that Plex is working with Dolby Atmos tracks in DD+ using Dolby Access app.
So you mean there actually is dolby atmos sound, even it is not visible on the avr like it is when playing an atmos title on netflix or bluray?
BTW have you tried this with Dolby Atmos for headphones? What do you think?
no i didn’t , actually i am only interested to have it work on my avr. But what do you mean with “plex is working with dolby atmos in dd+ using dolby access app”, do i have to route plex via the app or something? i have the app installed and the demo’s working perfectly, my avr also shows ‘atmos’ on it’s screen, the same for bluray’s and the supported netflix movies. But plex only show’s “surround” on my avr. i also think as said by others before in this topic plex needs an xbox one s update to make it work. i think i just have to wait for this patiently.
@jmckee said:
Games and the Media player are separate functions, for the most part games and Microsoft’s dlna player have more access to underlying features as they are a lot more controlled environments. 3rd party Apps will sometimes get artificial restrictions placed on them. This is another one of those cases that switching to UWP relieves a number of them as the framework is newer and has access to somethings that the older non-UWP apps did not.
Thanks a lot for extensive explanation. What I would like to do next is to test how audio is really handled right now. And I have found the way. There is a test tones files provided by Dolby. You can easily distinguish upper channels from normal channels. I have imported those to Audacity and… in Audacity you cannot distinguish upper channels. Positioning metadata is ignored or lost. In Movies and TV app on PC positioning is working. You can clearly distinguish the change. I will test it on Xbox and will get back with results.
Hello, again,
So I used dolby test tones files (7.1.4) and I can tell that Dolby for Headphones works for Plex on Xbox audio. dolby.com/us/en/guide/test-tones.html
Test:
Switch to stereo - disable spatial sound.
Playback right front channel
Playback right upper channel - result: no difference for right front
Switch to Dolby for headphones
Playback right front channel
Playback right upper channel - result: you can hear that it slightly upper than right front, not much, but you can distinguish that. And it is totally different from right front or right upper in stereo.
I can now make a conclusion that Plex is working with Dolby Atmos tracks in DD+ using Dolby Access app.
So you mean there actually is dolby atmos sound, even it is not visible on the avr like it is when playing an atmos title on netflix or bluray?
BTW have you tried this with Dolby Atmos for headphones? What do you think?
no i didn’t , actually i am only interested to have it work on my avr. But what do you mean with “plex is working with dolby atmos in dd+ using dolby access app”, do i have to route plex via the app or something? i have the app installed and the demo’s working perfectly, my avr also shows ‘atmos’ on it’s screen, the same for bluray’s and the supported netflix movies. But plex only show’s “surround” on my avr. i also think as said by others before in this topic plex needs an xbox one s update to make it work. i think i just have to wait for this patiently.
If you have Dolby Access app then you can go to audio settings and enable Dolby Atmos for headphones. Without Dolby Access app this will not work. betanews.com/2017/07/28/dolby-atmos-windows-10/ Description from store:
No additional configuration is needed. I think I’ve posted screenshot on this thread.
@jmckee said:
Games and the Media player are separate functions, for the most part games and Microsoft’s dlna player have more access to underlying features as they are a lot more controlled environments. 3rd party Apps will sometimes get artificial restrictions placed on them. This is another one of those cases that switching to UWP relieves a number of them as the framework is newer and has access to somethings that the older non-UWP apps did not.
Thanks a lot for extensive explanation. What I would like to do next is to test how audio is really handled right now. And I have found the way. There is a test tones files provided by Dolby. You can easily distinguish upper channels from normal channels. I have imported those to Audacity and… in Audacity you cannot distinguish upper channels. Positioning metadata is ignored or lost. In Movies and TV app on PC positioning is working. You can clearly distinguish the change. I will test it on Xbox and will get back with results.
Hello, again,
So I used dolby test tones files (7.1.4) and I can tell that Dolby for Headphones works for Plex on Xbox audio. dolby.com/us/en/guide/test-tones.html
Test:
Switch to stereo - disable spatial sound.
Playback right front channel
Playback right upper channel - result: no difference for right front
Switch to Dolby for headphones
Playback right front channel
Playback right upper channel - result: you can hear that it slightly upper than right front, not much, but you can distinguish that. And it is totally different from right front or right upper in stereo.
I can now make a conclusion that Plex is working with Dolby Atmos tracks in DD+ using Dolby Access app.
So you mean there actually is dolby atmos sound, even it is not visible on the avr like it is when playing an atmos title on netflix or bluray?
BTW have you tried this with Dolby Atmos for headphones? What do you think?
no i didn’t , actually i am only interested to have it work on my avr. But what do you mean with “plex is working with dolby atmos in dd+ using dolby access app”, do i have to route plex via the app or something? i have the app installed and the demo’s working perfectly, my avr also shows ‘atmos’ on it’s screen, the same for bluray’s and the supported netflix movies. But plex only show’s “surround” on my avr. i also think as said by others before in this topic plex needs an xbox one s update to make it work. i think i just have to wait for this patiently.
If you have Dolby Access app then you can go to audio settings and enable Dolby Atmos for headphones. Without Dolby Access app this will not work. betanews.com/2017/07/28/dolby-atmos-windows-10/ Description from store:
No additional configuration is needed. I think I’ve posted screenshot on this thread.
That is interesting, it says Atmos on the headphones is for ALL games and movies. That explains Plex works with headphones but not on an AVR, that is a different method of decoding i suppose. But Atmos on headphones? how will it simulate the sound from above then? For my AVR i have dolby atmos speakers so sound comes from above.
@jmckee said:
Games and the Media player are separate functions, for the most part games and Microsoft’s dlna player have more access to underlying features as they are a lot more controlled environments. 3rd party Apps will sometimes get artificial restrictions placed on them. This is another one of those cases that switching to UWP relieves a number of them as the framework is newer and has access to somethings that the older non-UWP apps did not.
Thanks a lot for extensive explanation. What I would like to do next is to test how audio is really handled right now. And I have found the way. There is a test tones files provided by Dolby. You can easily distinguish upper channels from normal channels. I have imported those to Audacity and… in Audacity you cannot distinguish upper channels. Positioning metadata is ignored or lost. In Movies and TV app on PC positioning is working. You can clearly distinguish the change. I will test it on Xbox and will get back with results.
Hello, again,
So I used dolby test tones files (7.1.4) and I can tell that Dolby for Headphones works for Plex on Xbox audio. dolby.com/us/en/guide/test-tones.html
Test:
Switch to stereo - disable spatial sound.
Playback right front channel
Playback right upper channel - result: no difference for right front
Switch to Dolby for headphones
Playback right front channel
Playback right upper channel - result: you can hear that it slightly upper than right front, not much, but you can distinguish that. And it is totally different from right front or right upper in stereo.
I can now make a conclusion that Plex is working with Dolby Atmos tracks in DD+ using Dolby Access app.
So you mean there actually is dolby atmos sound, even it is not visible on the avr like it is when playing an atmos title on netflix or bluray?
BTW have you tried this with Dolby Atmos for headphones? What do you think?
no i didn’t , actually i am only interested to have it work on my avr. But what do you mean with “plex is working with dolby atmos in dd+ using dolby access app”, do i have to route plex via the app or something? i have the app installed and the demo’s working perfectly, my avr also shows ‘atmos’ on it’s screen, the same for bluray’s and the supported netflix movies. But plex only show’s “surround” on my avr. i also think as said by others before in this topic plex needs an xbox one s update to make it work. i think i just have to wait for this patiently.
If you have Dolby Access app then you can go to audio settings and enable Dolby Atmos for headphones. Without Dolby Access app this will not work. betanews.com/2017/07/28/dolby-atmos-windows-10/ Description from store:
No additional configuration is needed. I think I’ve posted screenshot on this thread.
That is interesting, it says Atmos on the headphones is for ALL games and movies. That explains Plex works with headphones but not on an AVR, that is a different method of decoding i suppose. But Atmos on headphones? how will it simulate the sound from above then? For my AVR i have dolby atmos speakers so sound comes from above.
I always say - you have only 2 ears. With AVR and speakers above sound may go through your head as well. So position is clear. To my understanding, I am not ready to dump and analyze Atmos metadata from the file, I imported file to audacity and can hear than upper front right and front are identical as metadata is lost. And there is also this for the platform: microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/spatial-audio/
How? As I understand:
each piece of PCM, DD+ or TrueHD can have metadata associated with it. Metadata may contain Atmos metadata.
1.1 Generally Atmos should contain information about objects, but this may require significant processing power, so end result may be prerendered.
Prerendered or not such apps as Plex, Netflix can just stream whatever Atmos track they have without striping metadata like Audacity does, or games like Overwatch have Dolby Atmos for headphones option, where they may render object audio. Never thought that I will ever say “render object audio in space”…
Now OS have Dolby Atmos for Headphones decoder enabled via Dolby Access app and it uses it together with Atmos metadata to downmix to stereo properly. That is why I hear the difference between Dolby Atmos for Headphones and simple stereo output. You may say, ok but it is multichannel audio, so you should have some HRTF processing even without Atmos. True, but not in case of upper right front and right front comparison. The fact is that Plex Audio is not stripped down from Dolby metadata in Dolby Atmos for Headphones mode. And if you are switching between right front and right upper front quickly it is so easy to hear the difference.
So when decoder takes Atmos metadata then it uses HRTF to create a downmixed stereo. THIS IS MY UNDERSTANDING. Maybe it is not accurate, but probably similar.
As HRTF is personalized, whether Atmos for Headphones, Windows Sonic, DTS Headphones:X or any other, it is hard to simulate every position for closed/open headphones. For me personally it is hard to distinguish upper back, back right - center - left. So I used front channels for comparison.
Sorry for the really basic question but I just want to know if the XBOX One S can play downloaded files (movies/shows) that have Dolby Atmos or DTS:X sound? Will it output these audio formats if I have an eg Atmos soundbar?
@hamid.riaz@outlook.com said:
Sorry for the really basic question but I just want to know if the XBOX One S can play downloaded files (movies/shows) that have Dolby Atmos or DTS:X sound? Will it output these audio formats if I have an eg Atmos soundbar?
For the majority of content you would want to watch the answer is no. It is technically possible to find content that includes a different audio codec with atmos channel encoding that could play, but unlikely to be in any current movie format.
The Dolby access app should allow the Xbox One to output in Atmos, but until the app can take advantage of the passthrough functionality the access app won’t have access to the original audio stream. The only exception I am aware of is if you can find an eAC3 track that includes Atmos channel mapping it would then be able to create the Atmos stream originally as intended.
So, if I’m understanding correctly what’s been said, DD+ with Atmos is working (I got it to work using test tone files), but TruHD+Atmos is currently not going to work.
Does anyone know a program that can re-encode my ripped TruHD movies to DD+? Seems to me that would be a way to solve the problem, but I can’t seem to find anything on how to re-encode to eac3.
PLEX on Xbox One doesnt do passthrough yet. It always internally decodes it and outputs it in the format you selected in the settings. The Atmos option currently only works for Blu-ray or Netflix (for the movies that have it). Other media plays in LPCM 7.1 when Atmos is selected.
Atmos for Headphones is an upsample technique that even works on stereo sources. But works best in surround audio sources.
PLEX Automatically transcodes to DD+ when playing TrueHD/Atmos on Xbox One. So no point in doing it yourself.
But it does do passthrough for DD+ eac3. When I play the dolby atmos test tone file with plex on xbox one ( http://download.dolby.com/us/en/test-tones/dolby-test-tones_5_1_2.mp4 ), the Dolby Atmos light lights up on my receiver and it displays “Dolby Atmos” on the display. Additionally, all of the test tones play through the correct speakers, including the two overhead ones. TruHD+Atmos does exactly as you describe, the Plex app does the decoding and outputs LPCM 7.1.
So… if the movies on my Plex server were encoded as DD+ eac3+atmos rather than TruHD+Atmos, the XBox One plex app would play them correctly including the overhead atmos channels just like the test tone file does. Re-encoding my TruHD movies to DD+ would therefore be an acceptable workaround to playing atmos movies with Plex on Xbox One… if I could figure out how to do that. I can’t find any guide, as I don’t think it’s something a lot of people have any reason to do. But in this case, it would be a solution.
@gigabulloba said:
But it does do passthrough for DD+ eac3. When I play the dolby atmos test tone file with plex on xbox one ( http://download.dolby.com/us/en/test-tones/dolby-test-tones_5_1_2.mp4 ), the Dolby Atmos light lights up on my receiver and it displays “Dolby Atmos” on the display. Additionally, all of the test tones play through the correct speakers, including the two overhead ones. TruHD+Atmos does exactly as you describe, the Plex app does the decoding and outputs LPCM 7.1.
So… if the movies on my Plex server were encoded as DD+ eac3+atmos rather than TruHD+Atmos, the XBox One plex app would play them correctly including the overhead atmos channels just like the test tone file does. Re-encoding my TruHD movies to DD+ would therefore be an acceptable workaround to playing atmos movies with Plex on Xbox One… if I could figure out how to do that. I can’t find any guide, as I don’t think it’s something a lot of people have any reason to do. But in this case, it would be a solution.
Very inspiring finding. There should be a way to do that. Let me do some research and test it out.
@gigabulloba said:
But it does do passthrough for DD+ eac3. When I play the dolby atmos test tone file with plex on xbox one ( http://download.dolby.com/us/en/test-tones/dolby-test-tones_5_1_2.mp4 ), the Dolby Atmos light lights up on my receiver and it displays “Dolby Atmos” on the display. Additionally, all of the test tones play through the correct speakers, including the two overhead ones. TruHD+Atmos does exactly as you describe, the Plex app does the decoding and outputs LPCM 7.1.
So… if the movies on my Plex server were encoded as DD+ eac3+atmos rather than TruHD+Atmos, the XBox One plex app would play them correctly including the overhead atmos channels just like the test tone file does. Re-encoding my TruHD movies to DD+ would therefore be an acceptable workaround to playing atmos movies with Plex on Xbox One… if I could figure out how to do that. I can’t find any guide, as I don’t think it’s something a lot of people have any reason to do. But in this case, it would be a solution.
Hmmm, I see where the problem is after testing. Although you can force Plex to output EAC3 to XBOX, it still loses the height info during the transcoding.
@“Wenjun YU” said:
Hmmm, I see where the problem is after testing. Although you can force Plex to output EAC3 to XBOX, it still loses the height info during the transcoding.
That’s because Atmos eAC3 isn’t a directly supported codec by the native player (it is indirectly supported in that eAC3 is supported and the atmos is just there for the ride). The only reason it works currently is because the server knows that the Xbox can play eAC3 so it sends the original sound track which would include the additional position track. And because that track gets send to the Xbox the Xbox then uses the internal passthrough support via the Dolby Access to send the atmos along to your receiver. However, when transcoding the audio the server doesn’t have a way to generate positional audio to send to the Xbox so it only looks at creating the standard eAC3 audio.
Short answer, the way it currently is only a direct played/streamed audio track can be sent from the server with the positional audio. Anything else is going to be a freshly created audio stream without the positional stream/track.
@“Wenjun YU” said:
Hmmm, I see where the problem is after testing. Although you can force Plex to output EAC3 to XBOX, it still loses the height info during the transcoding.
That’s because Atmos eAC3 isn’t a directly supported codec by the native player (it is indirectly supported in that eAC3 is supported and the atmos is just there for the ride). The only reason it works currently is because the server knows that the Xbox can play eAC3 so it sends the original sound track which would include the additional position track. And because that track gets send to the Xbox the Xbox then uses the internal passthrough support via the Dolby Access to send the atmos along to your receiver. However, when transcoding the audio the server doesn’t have a way to generate positional audio to send to the Xbox so it only looks at creating the standard eAC3 audio.
Short answer, the way it currently is only a direct played/streamed audio track can be sent from the server with the positional audio. Anything else is going to be a freshly created audio stream without the positional stream/track.
Yes that is exactly what I thought. So I started trying to make truehd part of a direct play/stream format but no matter what I try, PMS still transcodes it into aac or ac3.
@“Wenjun YU” said:
Hmmm, I see where the problem is after testing. Although you can force Plex to output EAC3 to XBOX, it still loses the height info during the transcoding.
That’s because Atmos eAC3 isn’t a directly supported codec by the native player (it is indirectly supported in that eAC3 is supported and the atmos is just there for the ride). The only reason it works currently is because the server knows that the Xbox can play eAC3 so it sends the original sound track which would include the additional position track. And because that track gets send to the Xbox the Xbox then uses the internal passthrough support via the Dolby Access to send the atmos along to your receiver. However, when transcoding the audio the server doesn’t have a way to generate positional audio to send to the Xbox so it only looks at creating the standard eAC3 audio.
Short answer, the way it currently is only a direct played/streamed audio track can be sent from the server with the positional audio. Anything else is going to be a freshly created audio stream without the positional stream/track.
Also, when I was playing around with different transcode format, I found out that if I set the transcode format as ac3 or eac3 instead of aac, it seems that there is a strong DRC alike effect. It distorted the sound so much that even my girlfriend noticed and said there is something wrong with the sound. Not sure if it is a bug on newest XBOX os.
@“Wenjun YU” said:
Hmmm, I see where the problem is after testing. Although you can force Plex to output EAC3 to XBOX, it still loses the height info during the transcoding.
That’s because Atmos eAC3 isn’t a directly supported codec by the native player (it is indirectly supported in that eAC3 is supported and the atmos is just there for the ride). The only reason it works currently is because the server knows that the Xbox can play eAC3 so it sends the original sound track which would include the additional position track. And because that track gets send to the Xbox the Xbox then uses the internal passthrough support via the Dolby Access to send the atmos along to your receiver. However, when transcoding the audio the server doesn’t have a way to generate positional audio to send to the Xbox so it only looks at creating the standard eAC3 audio.
Short answer, the way it currently is only a direct played/streamed audio track can be sent from the server with the positional audio. Anything else is going to be a freshly created audio stream without the positional stream/track.
Hmmm, after further looking into this problem, I found out that even the direct play/streamed ac3/eac3 sound all sounds weird with a strong DRC alike effects. Have to remove them from direct play/streamed list and force PMS to transcode them into aac to solve the problem. Really weird. Meanwhile, I tested other apps such as Netflix and Amazon with ac3 sound with no such a problem.
@“Wenjun YU” said:
Yes that is exactly what I thought. So I started trying to make truehd part of a direct play/stream format but no matter what I try, PMS still transcodes it into aac or ac3.
The MDE (Media Decision Engine) runs in the app itself. So no matter what you cannot make truehd a direct play/streamable format. By the time that profile is read by the server the Xbox has already told the server to transcode. In addition to that, because the app is still part of the older Xbox framework it can’t take advantage of the passthrough ability. What this means is that even if you got a TrueHD stream to the app, it would just generate an error or give you no sound as the Xbox can’t decode that stream.> @“Wenjun YU” said:
Hmmm, after further looking into this problem, I found out that even the direct play/streamed ac3/eac3 sound all sounds weird with a strong DRC alike effects. Have to remove them from direct play/streamed list and force PMS to transcode them into aac to solve the problem. Really weird. Meanwhile, I tested other apps such as Netflix and Amazon with ac3 sound with no such a problem.
Is this something that started recently or something that happens with multiple files? I haven’t experienced this myself, but if it is happening with a direct played audio stream that means the Xbox itself handling all the decoding/re-encoding of that stream before outputting it. If it is something that is happening on multiple streams it might be good to get a short sample file that reproduces this and I can forward it onto the developers to see if they can see it as well. However, if it is caused by the Xbox One decoder/re-encoder then all the plex developers can do is file a bug report with Microsoft. Another thing that could affect this is if you are on any of the insider preview’s for the Xbox One.
@“Wenjun YU” said:
Yes that is exactly what I thought. So I started trying to make truehd part of a direct play/stream format but no matter what I try, PMS still transcodes it into aac or ac3.
The MDE (Media Decision Engine) runs in the app itself. So no matter what you cannot make truehd a direct play/streamable format. By the time that profile is read by the server the Xbox has already told the server to transcode. In addition to that, because the app is still part of the older Xbox framework it can’t take advantage of the passthrough ability. What this means is that even if you got a TrueHD stream to the app, it would just generate an error or give you no sound as the Xbox can’t decode that stream.> @“Wenjun YU” said:
Hmmm, after further looking into this problem, I found out that even the direct play/streamed ac3/eac3 sound all sounds weird with a strong DRC alike effects. Have to remove them from direct play/streamed list and force PMS to transcode them into aac to solve the problem. Really weird. Meanwhile, I tested other apps such as Netflix and Amazon with ac3 sound with no such a problem.
Is this something that started recently or something that happens with multiple files? I haven’t experienced this myself, but if it is happening with a direct played audio stream that means the Xbox itself handling all the decoding/re-encoding of that stream before outputting it. If it is something that is happening on multiple streams it might be good to get a short sample file that reproduces this and I can forward it onto the developers to see if they can see it as well. However, if it is caused by the Xbox One decoder/re-encoder then all the plex developers can do is file a bug report with Microsoft. Another thing that could affect this is if you are on any of the insider preview’s for the Xbox One.
It happens to anything that is sent to Xbox as ac3/eac3, including transcoded and streamed. It’s subtle sometimes but you can always feel it. It’s really obvious when I played Spotlight on the opening Universal logo. The orchestra sounds just tremble. My Xbox is indeed on the Omega preview but I also tested on my friend’s regular Xbox the result is same. Another possibility is there’s something with my PMS setting but I can’t think of anything.
