I’m using a Windows PC as my PMS, streaming to a Samsung HDTV, a MBP, two iPads, and two iPhones, streaming to no more than two devices concurrently. My ‘media server’ is a (nearly antique) HP EX470 MediaSmart Server (one 500GB Seagate HDD, three 1TB WD HDDs), running Windows Home Server. I don’t have any 4K content at this time. This configuration is meeting my needs but it’s definitely showing its age. I’d like to move to something newer. After much research (to run Plex and otherwise), I’m leaning towards the 918+, with two 8TB WD HDDs, to start; haven’t decided whether I’ll attempt to re-use the 1TB HDDs.
I’ve read every message in this thread, paying particular attention to the pros/cons of running PMS on ds418play / ds918+. This got me wondering: If running PMS on my Windows PC is working well, would continuing to do so be less trouble, and likely better meet my needs, than running PMS on any reasonably-priced (say, ~$600) NAS?
@marff said:
Hope i didn’t forget something… I definitely keep this box!
Do you use a read/write cache on your 918+? Does Plex improve (much) from it?
May I ask you for a last test? I would be interested, if also 4k HEVC playback is possible with the 918+. Could you test with jellyfish-120-mbps-4k-uhd-hevc-10bit.mkv and jellyfish-400-mbps-4k-uhd-hevc-10bit.mkv. Let’s see, if you can push your machine
@marff said:
Hope i didn’t forget something… I definitely keep this box!
Do you use a read/write cache on your 918+? Does Plex improve (much) from it?
May I ask you for a last test? I would be interested, if also 4k HEVC playback is possible with the 918+. Could you test with jellyfish-120-mbps-4k-uhd-hevc-10bit.mkv and jellyfish-400-mbps-4k-uhd-hevc-10bit.mkv. Let’s see, if you can push your machine
Nope, no cache yet. I too wonder if plex performance would be improved by it…
I’m already uploading the files. Will report back…
It took something like 1m30 to 2m to even start streaming. I tested on my iphone remotely and the video was converted from HEVC to h264 with hardware transcoding enabled. I didn’t test the 400mbps one because i don’t think it would run better and i didn’t test without hardware transcoding.
Transcoding isn’t helped by cache. you’ll burn through a SSD fast if you use it for transcode.
Putting the DB on SSD or using SSD for cache of the Plex directory is great.
Remember, I added the ability to install / movie the Plex share wherever you want. This means, once you install a SSD volume, you can move the PLex share there. Once there, move the transcode tempory directory back to the HD volume.
@marff said:
It took something like 1m30 to 2m to even start streaming. I tested on my iphone remotely and the video was converted from HEVC to h264 with hardware transcoding enabled. I didn’t test the 400mbps one because i don’t think it would run better and i didn’t test without hardware transcoding.
All in all: 4k not really usable on this box.
Any chance to test if PMS is also converting the 4k 120mbps file if you are streaming to your Apple TV? I guess this is a more relevant scenario for some users.
If you put PMS on your NAS, you are now free to turn the laptop off whenever you want. The NAS is quiet, non-intrusive, and will consume less power than a laptop spinning that much metal. You get to enjoy your media without doing the “Crap! I left my laptop at work!”
@ChuckPA Thanks! I neglected to mention that my Windows PC is a desktop; i.e., it’s always powered on. OTOH, I can appreciate how putting PMS on the NAS would make things simpler. Just wondering if the stream quality, especially streaming 4K, etc., would be consistently better if PMS is on a more powerful PC (of course, with the content coming from the NAS).
I’ve learned quite a lot from this thread. It’s great we have the “ear” of someone so closely associated with the product making them self so accessible here!
Depending on which NAS product you get and the CPU in it, you might end up with better hardware transcoding capability than your desktop.
In my case, I have an i7-3740 and i7-37770 destkop while my NAS is an i7-6700 w/ 32 GB of RAM. This is a significant step up.
It will do 4K. It will not do 4K, HEVC, HDR (10 bit color). The SkyLake GPU cannot handle this in hardware and the CPU itself isn’t strong enough
I ordered a Synology 918+; it’s scheduled to arrive over the weekend. I also got a good deal on some WD 8TB Red HDDs ($160 each).
Although I read all the messages in this thread I’m still unsure about where to download the PMS installer from. Should I get it from https://www.plex.tv/downloads or perhaps from Synology’s website?
Download from http://downloads.plex.tv. I’ve rewritten the installer to be a whole lot more flexible. 1.5.3 (which Synology refuses to update for whatever reason) is going to cause you grief. It doesn’t have hardware transcoding.
Also, when you format the Volume, use EXT4. BTRFS is a layer of RAID on top of your RAID volume. It is useful when you have single drive volumes but at this point in Synology’s maturity of it, I’ve seen more issues with it than the Tried&Proven EXT4.
ChuckPA/all - I took the plunge and purchased the DS418play. Overall, it’s great. However, I am having one issue that I simply cannot resolve.
I have installed Plex with no issues. All my media is transferred and everything is working swimmingly except live video. Live video buffers often, every 10-60 seconds when watching HD channels; SD channels play flawlessly. The buffering happens regardless of client including PC, iPhone 7, and Roku Streaming Stick+. The DS418play does not show any issues when transcoding live streams;CPU stays ~60%, RAM and everything else is nominal. I have dug through the logs, even the verbose ones, and haven’t been able to pick out the pertinent lines. I’m hoping for some help, and I’m sure this can be resolved as all the monitoring shows the DS418play is well within its limits.
Also, my other Plex Media Server runs flawlessly on an old AMD A10 box running Ubuntu 16.04; no live video buffering issues with all the other hardware being the same as what’s connecting the NAS.
Without going into details, I work in IT and have a good understanding of “all the things.” The network is all gigabit running Cat 5e and 6. WiFi isn’t an issue as the same behavior is exhibited on wired clients.
The specs:
NAS: Synology DS418play, new with no modifications
4 1TB Barracuda hard drives (BTRFS, didn’t see your note in time)
Tuner: HDHomerun Duo (hardwired into the same switch as the Ubuntu box and the Synology)
Clients: Windows 10 PC Chrome browser, iOS 11.1.2 on iPhone 7, Roku Streaming Stick+ (the new one)
Switch: Generic unmanaged
My speculation is that the live video isn’t really buffering. Watching the .ts files in the \Plex\Library\Application Support\Plex Media Server\Cache\Transcode\Sessions directory, they do not stop being created during the pauses. I perceive it’s something else to do with the DS418play such as prioritization or QOS.
Finally, while I don’t understand the Plex logs well, I am seeing the following reoccurring during live playback:
Nov 25, 2017 11:22:55.160 [0x7f3d8f70d700] ERROR - [Transcoder] [mpeg2video @ 0x1f5d200] 00 motion_type at 18 35
Nov 25, 2017 11:22:55.164 [0x7f3d8eab3700] ERROR - [Transcoder] [mpeg2video @ 0x1f5d200] Warning MVs not available
Nov 25, 2017 11:22:55.705 [0x7f3d897ff700] ERROR - [Transcoder] [mpeg2video @ 0x1f5d200] 00 motion_type at 30 12
Nov 25, 2017 11:22:55.709 [0x7f3d87e23700] ERROR - [Transcoder] [mpeg2video @ 0x1f5d200] Warning MVs not available
Nov 25, 2017 11:23:08.783 [0x7f3d84bff700] ERROR - [Transcoder] [mpeg2video @ 0x1f5d200] 00 motion_type at 27 5
Nov 25, 2017 11:23:08.787 [0x7f3d8bc47700] ERROR - [Transcoder] [mpeg2video @ 0x1f5d200] Warning MVs not available
Any help tracking this down is appreciated and I’m happy to provide any logging needed.
@Rascal151 said:
ChuckPA/all - I took the plunge and purchased the DS418play. Overall, it’s great. However, I am having one issue that I simply cannot resolve.
I have installed Plex with no issues. All my media is transferred and everything is working swimmingly except live video. Live video buffers often, every 10-60 seconds when watching HD channels; SD channels play flawlessly. The buffering happens regardless of client including PC, iPhone 7, and Roku Streaming Stick+. The DS418play does not show any issues when transcoding live streams;CPU stays ~60%, RAM and everything else is nominal. I have dug through the logs, even the verbose ones, and haven’t been able to pick out the pertinent lines. I’m hoping for some help, and I’m sure this can be resolved as all the monitoring shows the DS418play is well within its limits.
Also, my other Plex Media Server runs flawlessly on an old AMD A10 box running Ubuntu 16.04; no live video buffering issues with all the other hardware being the same as what’s connecting the NAS.
Without going into details, I work in IT and have a good understanding of “all the things.” The network is all gigabit running Cat 5e and 6. WiFi isn’t an issue as the same behavior is exhibited on wired clients.
The specs:
NAS: Synology DS418play, new with no modifications
4 1TB Barracuda hard drives (BTRFS, didn’t see your note in time)
Tuner: HDHomerun Duo (hardwired into the same switch as the Ubuntu box and the Synology)
Clients: Windows 10 PC Chrome browser, iOS 11.1.2 on iPhone 7, Roku Streaming Stick+ (the new one)
Switch: Generic unmanaged
My speculation is that the live video isn’t really buffering. Watching the .ts files in the \Plex\Library\Application Support\Plex Media Server\Cache\Transcode\Sessions directory, they do not stop being created during the pauses. I perceive it’s something else to do with the DS418play such as prioritization or QOS.
Finally, while I don’t understand the Plex logs well, I am seeing the following reoccurring during live playback:
Nov 25, 2017 11:22:55.160 [0x7f3d8f70d700] ERROR - [Transcoder] [mpeg2video @ 0x1f5d200] 00 motion_type at 18 35
Nov 25, 2017 11:22:55.164 [0x7f3d8eab3700] ERROR - [Transcoder] [mpeg2video @ 0x1f5d200] Warning MVs not available
Nov 25, 2017 11:22:55.705 [0x7f3d897ff700] ERROR - [Transcoder] [mpeg2video @ 0x1f5d200] 00 motion_type at 30 12
Nov 25, 2017 11:22:55.709 [0x7f3d87e23700] ERROR - [Transcoder] [mpeg2video @ 0x1f5d200] Warning MVs not available
Nov 25, 2017 11:23:08.783 [0x7f3d84bff700] ERROR - [Transcoder] [mpeg2video @ 0x1f5d200] 00 motion_type at 27 5
Nov 25, 2017 11:23:08.787 [0x7f3d8bc47700] ERROR - [Transcoder] [mpeg2video @ 0x1f5d200] Warning MVs not available
Any help tracking this down is appreciated and I’m happy to provide any logging needed.
Also, given there is transcoding happening while playing live (for the browser’s sake), It is possible you’re taxing the Celeron.
(DS418play Intel Celeron J3355 Dual Core 2 Yes Apollolake DDR3L SO-DIMM 2GB)
I will be able to be more definitive when I can see what’s happening from the logs and media sample
I will assert now that the video doesn’t look good. Something isn’t right. I have the HDHomeRun Prime and do not experience those errors in the TS streams
Also, given there is transcoding happening while playing live (for the browser’s sake), It is possible you’re taxing the Celeron.
(DS418play Intel Celeron J3355 Dual Core 2 Yes Apollolake DDR3L SO-DIMM 2GB)
I will be able to be more definitive when I can see what’s happening from the logs and media sample
I will assert now that the video doesn’t look good. Something isn’t right. I have the HDHomeRun Prime and do not experience those errors in the TS streams
@ChuckPA - many thanks in advance for your help.
First, I have restarted the Plex service on the NAS so the ‘Plex Media Server.log’ and the ‘Plex Tuner Server.log’ files are fresh for this test. I have also included the remaining historical logs in the directory for reference; ‘Plex Media Server.1.log’ is the previous file where I experimented with different logging levels while troubleshooting.
The sessions folder from this test is also included with all the .ts files from this session. Multiple instances of buffering were observed during this test.
Finally, also included are screen captures of the NAS utilization during live transcoding, as well as the Plex status screen showing hardware acceleration. Of note is that while the processor utilization of the DS418play did jump to ~60 percent, it did stabilize there and did not change while the buffering was occurring. Also, network and disk utilization are nominal.
The file can be found here: Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life
Again, many thanks. Please let me know what other resources and test are needed and I’ll get on it.
@ChuckPA - this is probably a red herring but I’m sitting here watching ‘top’ as the Synology transcodes live video and I noticed something interesting. As the video plays, the transcoding process hovers right around 100%. It varies a bit - say between 97% and 110%, but it never goes much higher and never for more than a second. I have attached a screen grab.
Is it possible the Plex transcoder for live is restricted to a single core?
What’s interesting about that is my AMD A10 running Ubuntu has four cores and it’s able to spread the MPEG2 workload over them.
Also, when I tried transcoding HEVC 4K 10-bit video to H264 with the NAS last week it couldn’t do it. After today’s update, that same video now transcodes extremely well, using around 25% CPU utilization.
So if I understand correctly, this is a limitation on the Synology in that it doesn’t support transcoding MPEG2. Is this correct?
Do you have a thread or ticket? I’d happily chime in.
Currently I’m running both Plex Server and OpenPHT on a 2012 Mac Mini (which is always on) … I just got a Synology DS918+. I keep all my media files on the NAS… It all works great.
But I’m wondering if there’d be any benefits / performance improvements if I switched to running Plex Server on the DS918+ (while continuing to use OpenPHT on the Mac Mini for playback on my TV)… Or if I’m better off just keeping Plex Server on the Mac Mini.
