I find it hard to believe that every single device with an EPG that uses a grid layout is paying royalties to someone because they hold the patent.
This single thing would make Plex a genuine replacement for my cable service, but without is little more than a nice but impractical feature.
My guess is that implementing this is more difficult that we might think, given it would need to be radically different to the current Plex UI. The current EPG fits in without really changing anything.
@adrianwi said:
I find it hard to believe that every single device with an EPG that uses a grid layout is paying royalties to someone because they hold the patent.This single thing would make Plex a genuine replacement for my cable service, but without is little more than a nice but impractical feature.
My guess is that implementing this is more difficult that we might think, given it would need to be radically different to the current Plex UI. The current EPG fits in without really changing anything.
It would make life easier!
as for making it harder than we think - theyve already demonstrated their ability to make a grid layout in their ui, look at the recording schedule above!
@teshiburu said:
@adrianwi said:
I find it hard to believe that every single device with an EPG that uses a grid layout is paying royalties to someone because they hold the patent.This single thing would make Plex a genuine replacement for my cable service, but without is little more than a nice but impractical feature.
My guess is that implementing this is more difficult that we might think, given it would need to be radically different to the current Plex UI. The current EPG fits in without really changing anything.
It would make life easier!
as for making it harder than we think - theyve already demonstrated their ability to make a grid layout in their ui, look at the recording schedule above!
I agree it shouldn’t be hard to build a grid layout, but the recording schedule isn’t a good example of that. Putting the full guide into a grid would require a lot more logic to handle the spanning option for different length shows.
I think they are mainly afraid of patent problems. The reason I think that is because Silicon Dust has said specifically that they were avoiding a grid in their DVR because of patent issues. I wonder though if they thoroughly researched it or if both SD and Plex are just playing it safe.
I am not going to analyze the entire Annual Report but Rovi’s Annual Report filled with SEC for 2016 includes comments about settlements with Samsung and Dish regarding past payments over licensing issues as well as other references in the document to continued agreements with AT&T, Charter, and some other companies. Why would these other companies being settling/continuing payments to Rovi if it wasn’t for patent licensing? What other patents are being mentioned on the forum regarding Rovi other than the grid layout?
Have seen other comments on here regarding the courts reversing the patents but can anyone explain why the Rovi Annual Report has income from licensing from other large companies if the grid layout patent has been reversed?
I’m sure there is something patent-able, but I wonder if it is actually the visual layout or rather something on the back end. I don’t see how a valid patent could be issued simply for how the data looks. It’s basically a spreadsheet layout. So are Plex and Silicon Dust doing things on the back end that violates the patent even though they are not dropping it into a grid?
Rovi makes actual guide solutions that a company can buy to integrate into their products. Could these other companies actually be licensing those now days? Do the earnings reports differentiate between royalty only income vs product income?
https://business.tivo.com/products-solutions/ux/classic-guides.html
And besides the guide they seem to offer other products as well.
@johnm_ColaSC said:
I am not going to analyze the entire Annual Report but Rovi’s Annual Report filled with SEC for 2016 includes comments about settlements with Samsung and Dish regarding past payments over licensing issues as well as other references in the document to continued agreements with AT&T, Charter, and some other companies. Why would these other companies being settling/continuing payments to Rovi if it wasn’t for patent licensing? What other patents are being mentioned on the forum regarding Rovi other than the grid layout?Have seen other comments on here regarding the courts reversing the patents but can anyone explain why the Rovi Annual Report has income from licensing from other large companies if the grid layout patent has been reversed?
Rovi own hundreds (maybe thousands) of Patents.
@cayars I have no doubt that Rovi has hundreds of patents. Appears they tried to patent just about any view of TV data they could. Yes other patents have been overruled by the courts but a Plex Employee on another thread already said the links some users were referring to was not for the grid view of a guide. Rovi has been taking companies to court which is where the notes in the Annual Report stated that Samsung and Dish were making payments that were past due. I personally don’t know what the income reported was for and personally don’t care. I am fine with the current guide display. Would a grid be good perhaps, but I hate scrolling through long grids of shows but would probably use a grid view if built.
@kamererhouse Annual Report does not indicate what the income was from other than licensing. Personally don’t care. Too many posts/threads on forum all asking for grid view. If Plex and SD have both decided not to go with a grid view for legal reasons posts requesting a grid are not going to change their mind. As I stated above I am fine with the current view. The search for shows works for me and have found shows I probably would not have recorded because I saw them in the recommended for you section.
What people would probably like is just a link to set a manual recording. Once clicked the link would have just a few choices: recording start time, end time, and channel. Took a screenshot of the Advanced Recordings and copy/paste of text to build a quick mock up below.
I think this would satisfy more people than a grid view to search through however many channels/times for something to watch.
I proposed, I think back on page one of this topic, that if patents are truly a problem maybe Plex should go to Rovi/Tivo and get a legal license to build an optional plugin for Plex that people can buy at whatever rate Rovi demands. I mean unless Rovi demands an upfront fee just for the plugin to exist, then an optional plugin might work. Plex could satisfy the people that want a grid view for the guide while pointing the finger at Rovi for anyone that wanted to complain about the price.
They may still consider that idea. Who knows. It’s still in “beta” so they probably have their hands full working on their main products without an optional feature in the mix.
@kamererhouse said:
I proposed, I think back on page one of this topic, that if patents are truly a problem maybe Plex should go to Rovi/Tivo and get a legal license to build an optional plugin for Plex that people can buy at whatever rate Rovi demands. I mean unless Rovi demands an upfront fee just for the plugin to exist, then an optional plugin might work. Plex could satisfy the people that want a grid view for the guide while pointing the finger at Rovi for anyone that wanted to complain about the price.They may still consider that idea. Who knows. It’s still in “beta” so they probably have their hands full working on their main products without an optional feature in the mix.
I’ve suggested something similar in other threads. If Plex allows for a third party plug-in whereby the third party already has a license from Rovi then that too would avoid legal entanglement and still provide a full guide grid.
Plex could also tap into Live Channels on Android Tv to provide a guide there
+1 for a real guide! (grid view)
Another argument in favor of a grid view. I have MacGyver setup to record reruns on CBS. Today I noticed MacGyver isn’t recording this week. So I wonder what is on in place of MacGyver and is it something I want to see?
There’s no easy way to figure that out from Plex. The program guide apparently has no way to group shows by time or channel. You basically have to go to another website that displays the schedule along a timeline.
Having to visit another website to see what’s on at a specific time is an unnecessary work around that most DVRs don’t require.
@skippyretard said:
+1 for a real guide! (grid view)
By now its probably more like plus a million but who is counting,…?
The real question now is anyone in Plex development listening and do they care enough to comply with the numerous not so subtle requests?
The real question now is anyone in Plex development listening and do they care enough to comply with the numerous not so subtle requests?
If you have to ask, the answer is no.
I beta-test stuff (hardware, software) for another company and the experience is night and day. They have a suggestion forum and they implement new features in order of ranking, but have basically committed to doing everything that more than 2 percent of their userbase is interested in. They roadmap, they communicate, they’re on the forums talking.
@vnangia said:
The real question now is anyone in Plex development listening and do they care enough to comply with the numerous not so subtle requests?
If you have to ask, the answer is no.
I beta-test stuff (hardware, software) for another company and the experience is night and day. They have a suggestion forum and they implement new features in order of ranking, but have basically committed to doing everything that more than 2 percent of their userbase is interested in. They roadmap, they communicate, they’re on the forums talking.
I’ve only been experimenting with Plex for about a year now, but I’m increasingly getting the feeling that Plex is just a one or two man show especially with the server leg.
When it comes to the DVR feature it feels like they are trying to reinvent the wheel as an octagon while we are all saying it’s better as a circle. Meanwhile Plex just keeps modifying the octagon with various wedges and shims hoping it will work good enough.
@kamererhouse said:
I’ve only been experimenting with Plex for about a year now, but I’m increasingly getting the feeling that Plex is just a one or two man show especially with the server leg.When it comes to the DVR feature it feels like they are trying to reinvent the wheel as an octagon while we are all saying it’s better as a circle. Meanwhile Plex just keeps modifying the octagon with various wedges and shims hoping it will work good enough.
Probably right. That’s not to say the other company is staffed heavily - they just have a different culture about how to go about development. They’re not afraid to jettison things and start over. For example, right now I’m testing a firmware for a device that’s off on a separate branch and it’s a total rewrite - which they’ve told us about clearly. I dunno, I continue to use it for now (except for TV, because, well, you see the problems), but I have one foot out in Embyland too.
@kamererhouse said:
Another argument in favor of a grid view. I have MacGyver setup to record reruns on CBS. Today I noticed MacGyver isn’t recording this week. So I wonder what is on in place of MacGyver and is it something I want to see?There’s no easy way to figure that out from Plex. The program guide apparently has no way to group shows by time or channel. You basically have to go to another website that displays the schedule along a timeline.
Having to visit another website to see what’s on at a specific time is an unnecessary work around that most DVRs don’t require.
I just ran into this exact issue this week. I wanted to know what was on in place of something I usually record, but there is just no way I could find to do that in Plex. Very dissapointing.
After the recent Privacy concerns I had another look at Emby, and whilst the whole thing isn’t anywhere near as polished as Plex and is missing a few features (e.g. smart playlists) it does have a pretty useable grid-like guide for Live TV
Yeah, it’s frustrating not having a grid view to explore. I think it’s an argument of convenience to say they are afraid of patent litigation when the patents that cover grid view EPGs have expired. And if they are rebutting the patents that have been listed and discussed on many of the forum posts already, then they should enumerate the patents they are concerned with.
But this is just another in a long pattern of radio silence and deflection.
A Plex Employee did comment on another thread where another user provided links to patents and stated they had been overturned. The employee stated the lawsuits that were overturned were not in reference to the grid patent in question and did provide a link from what I recall. They also said that a grid view would not be looked at until the lawsuits over the grid view were settled by the courts and any appeals were exhausted. Can’t say I blame them for not commenting on every thread asking about a grid view.
