Starting to understand the Team's priorities

by the way… the latest much ballyhood release of PMP is still a clickfest…

if you are in a movie and have to make a change in settings… still have to go all the way out… make the change… all the way back down…

openPHT still has all the goodies right there in the scrub bar… pause… left-right to the audio-sub-video setting you need… boom… press play again… never even loose sight of the video when paused…

the IOS app FINALLY has multi server goodness in search etc… PMP is still monolithic… only shows/searches one at a time

openPHT shows all servers libraries down the left…

still much work on PMP to be done… and yet they never seem to fix or add back the functionality that was there in PHT and is getting surpassed at every turn by 3rd party developers…

oh… and they (PLEX) fully killed off PHT … no longer downloadable at Plex as of today… now you must go thrid party for a big screen player as PMP enters its 3rd year of development this winter…

@beckfield

this kinda thing with tags… and well lots of little things… shows the lack of continuity and control at the project management level… sure… tag edditing and locking should have been the same for pics as the rest of the libraries…

the apps and features in each app should work seamlessley and identically across the product line

a BIG frustration for me is the ability to click on cast, director, artist … etc in the web client and be taken to addl content … in the IOS app its now gone…

had a long discussion with the IOS guys when they broke remote control last month and they bragged about realesing as quickly as possilbe even if it meant breaking functionality… there is logic for you… the team obviously work independantly and with very little management direction and oversight…

its not that the server cant do it… its not that plex hasnt written the code into other apps… its that one team for whatever reason didnt implement it in their project… if the specifications and functions were controlled at a higher project level and mandated to the teams and they had to follow them… the Plex ecosystem would work better…

As I said in an earlier post I am not going to participate in the farce that is the “conferences” because Plex does not actually listen and they only actually hear what they want to hear and the use the “conferences” to try to shut people up.

They pick and choose the statistics they use to support their preconceived ideas of how everybody uses Plex.

They say that “choice” is to complicated for users to handle therefore effectively calling the users stupid and they say that choice would over complicate the code making maintenance too complicated for their poor abused programmers to handle.

They use their chosen statistics for the purpose of proving that those of us that want choice are just too stupid to deal with.

Because of Plex’s inflexible attitude I will no longer participate in this kind of discussion and I will NOT do any more than try to help users navigate the morass that Plex applications have become.

I will continue in the various beta testing programs I am in but I will not make suggestions or requests as those are mostly ignored anyway. I will report bugs and test as needed.

To Plex: I am NOT stupid and the people I have installed Plex for are NOT stupid. We can handle choice and we want to be offered the chance. If you really think things can go horribly wrong just give an easy to access “reset to default” button and give you users the choices many have been asking for.

This is NOT goodby but it is a reduction of the kind of involvement that I will have with Plex.

Aloha

I agree. The decision making won’t change, even if the justifications do.

Well I have a few more thoughts and first of all a disclaimer.
I have in the past under my previous username been hypercritical of certain things in Plex, so much so, that I was told I should just move on. Not by a dev, not by a ninja just by another member. I did exactly that for a few months but the grass is certainly not greener. So now I’m back with a slightly more tolerant outlook. This was all mainly due to the crap way Plex handles collections.

@dragonmel … Did you really think it would be different?
Elan, I’m pretty sure, (but possibly Tobias) was quoted as saying that when the new UI is launched it’s gonna be great. At the time I thought yay at last vertical scrolling is coming back. But prior to that one of the hot topics was removal of mouse support from the PHT days , by a very few vociferous members and lo and behold it was eventually brought back. For me that was the end of ease of navigation.
I honestly believe from the moment it was brought back PMP was screwed. Despite the reluctance to bring it back in the early PMP days it now possibly seems that development is actually done mostly this way . From the home screen in PMP one or two mouse clicks (to get to settings for example) ‘can’ actually take up to a dozen remote clicks.

I should say that the original UI is actually pretty easy to navigate with my harmony smart keyboard/ mouse. BUT I’m a remote user. A keyboard to navigate a TV screen is totally alien to me. Oh and the other essential aid was a FLIRC.
Pressing a button on my remote to alter subs/soundtrack/lip-sync is great. But why do I need a FLIRC when most things can be done by altering key mapping inside the app itself apparently? Oh but yeah the support articles suck… You get told in the support articles what to alter, but not how/where. You can ask a ninja and get word for word (or pointed to) what the support article says., so that’s useful. NOT !!
I know lots about radiotherapy because that’s my job… But I must be a dumb f*ck because I don’t know what " just alter my key mappings" means!

( Another disclaimer some of the really helpful ninjas @MovieFan.Plex and a couple of others far outweigh some of the others who spout the same old same old then disappear when they have no answer.)

PS Why is it now only possible to analyze media by a single episode or manually scrolling through and multi selecting 168 episodes in a show, or a full TV Show library, when it used to be possible to analyze a show or even a season. Well actually you still can in the support articles.

Like this support article has been relevant for a year or so. :slight_smile:

So back on topic to the original paragraph… Is it great? Will my life change? Vertical scrolling but the same 10 button presses to actually do anything? I will let you know one day as sadly I’m on an embedded system, so always the last to be invited to every party.

And then finally the show stopper… Despite all this Plex is still best in class. Unless when the embedded PMP release hits, It isn’t and I go back to WMP … Yay @JamminR … I resisted saying Emby (well not until now)!!

Love to hate/hate to love? No despite all this I still love to love Plex.

@HitsVille - welcome back, and, I too have seen the other side of the fence.
Several solutions. Hence why I hate loving Plex. Many had many server features I wanted, but just weren’t polished enough on the UI side, or didn’t have a client for a friends device, or … the list of things Plex has just barely made it better than app >x<
It’s frustrating, and I’m not even being ‘hypercritical’ like I think I remember someone else you might have been was being.
(I’ve seen several lately - which seems to indicate all isn’t copacetic in Plexville, even Elan’s tag had to change from ‘sheriff’ to 'CTO" here)

@Joe4992 said:
I also think if this thread was on the public forum (non-plex pass forums) then there might be a little more activity from the Plex team. If you hurt their “potential” income, they will jump. Everyone here already has a plex pass with a lot of us being lifetime members so they are not too worried with people here seeing it. But if this was on a forum where everyone can see it, where people who are thinking of paying the money can see it… I bet they would jump a little higher in responding.

Bingo! The company’s priorities are for customer beyond those they have here. Most of whom will likely not come here even if they do purchase a plex pass. However eventually, half-baked features like plex cloud will drive those would-be customers away.

I don’t really get the premise that the 1%ers or the Plex Pass users aren’t representative of the product users as a whole. First these are the users who are PAYING to use the product and thus fund some/all of the the development. By nature they probably use more of the overall features compared to non-paying users since obviously non-paying users don’t have access to all the server or client features.

Many of the non-paying users will never pay and will always be “freeloaders” because the system does what they need without the need for any advanced features. The guy with a hundred movies and a couple of tv shows probably doesn’t need any advanced features to get by.

Granted Plex should not rely only on Plex Pass users soley either. But for example basing things on stats collected are always going to give you a BIAS (no way around that). My servers and systems I setup do not share this information. I think there is too much reliance on the net as it is now and don’t want more communications going on that aren’t needed. Secondly these stats can’t show you anything about features or functions you don’t presently have. @elan has recently shown us this when describing filtering and it’s low use. The problem with this is that the filtering is sub-par to begin, not very powerful and hard to use from remote controlled interfaces. You don’t need to look at stats to see this but just read and follow the forums to get a good handle on this.

We all get the fact that Plex wants to expand the user base and most likely expand the plex pass user base as well as this makes very good sense. This doesn’t mean there has to be a disconnect between the company and it’s users. We know they have put together user panels to review and give input on the newer UIs being developed. These are probably people who have ZERO experience with Plex itself and probably are Netflix type users. Not even in the same league as us. At best you might find what people in general prefer or are used to (eg crazy horizontal scrolling) to worst (adding more keystrokes to existing functions and taking away features).

This to me is disturbing. Instead of using existing users who know the system inside and out they will use people for feedback that don’t have a clue. You don’t add to an accounting system and get feedback from those not using the product nor would you use a completely different set of users to test it. It’s just not a realistic way to build a better product.

One reason to use a different user base panel would be if you think your current user base is not in touch with the direction you want to move in and you want to find out how users would feel with changes. You do things like this to try and figure out the loss and gain in users you would get from such a change.

The typical reason a company would do this is when they are creating/splitting a product or possibly moving in a new direction that has little to do with the existing user base. For example if you wanted to enter the markets currently held by Netflix or iTunes. If Plex could get licensed content and run it’s own servers (which we know they can) then testing new UIs would make sense since it’s a different user base. In this type of scenario you would also want as many client devices as possible as well to gain the user base.

Don’t read anything into that last paragraph as this is just “a reason” why a separate user panel could be used instead of current customer base.

We get Plex has ideas for expansion that often differs from our opinions. I just wish Plex could handle things differently. For example dedicate half the resources to new ventures and keep 50% working on existing features, fixes and expansions to what we currently have. They could certainly keep new features under wraps as usual but completely open up communications on existing items. This could certainly be a workable model that most people would approve. It could be 75/25 but if they dedicated a certain amount of resources and opened up communications for those resources we would all be much happier!

Not holding my breath of course. LOL

What’s the big deal with ‘Categories’? I don’t see what the need is. I have a thousand or more movies. I don’t need Plex to tell me whether they are Drama or Fantasy or Science Fiction or whatever.

I suspect that the 1% who are whinging about deficiencies in Plex are the extreme case. Most users will be like me. 1 or 2 TVs. Maybe a tablet or 2. One PMS. 4-8TB TV & movies. No remote access. No serving up content to friends & neighbours.

BTW Whoever came up with the ridiculous notion that if Plex were Open Source then all these problems would be solved clearly knows nothing of the history of Plex & it’s origin as the Mac port of Xbox Media Centre. It’s precisely because Plex is not Open Source & has been developed by a single project by a single organisation that it is where it is today & is streets ahead of any competing product of which there are none that even come close.

@nigelpb said:
What’s the big deal with ‘Categories’? I don’t see what the need is. I have a thousand or more movies. I don’t need Plex to tell me whether they are Drama or Fantasy or Science Fiction or whatever.

Personally I don’t use filters either. But that’s hardly the point when clearly others do. Please tell me you’re not another who assumes “my personal usage , is the only correct usage.”

@nigelpb said:
I suspect that the 1% who are whinging about deficiencies in Plex are the extreme case. Most users will be like me. 1 or 2 TVs. Maybe a tablet or 2. One PMS. 4-8TB TV & movies. No remote access. No serving up content to friends & neighbours…

Please tell me you’re not another who assumes “my personal usage , is the only normal usage.”

Nice usage of the 1% analytical fact/guess/estimate/bullsh*t
Must be according to the book of Elan :slight_smile:

What is a fact is that the “1%” of whingers is partly made up of some long term Plex lovers/defenders who are beginning to see the light.

@nigelpb said:
because Plex is not Open Source & has been developed by a single project by a single organisation that it is where it is today & is streets ahead of any competing product of which there are none that even come close.

So therefore its entitled to keep a closed mind and not listen to any suggestions… Yeah gotcha!!

@nigelpb: I believe that people want to see Categories implemented in a way that would “stack” like-type movies. I’ve taken the time to rip all of the James Bond movies into my server, and the individual movies are scattered throughout my library, based on their individual titles. It’s my understanding that people would like for Plex to intuitively understand that, despite the given names of these movies, they’re all James Bond movies, and therefore Plex should “stack” all these movies into a “collection” called James Bond. Personally, I’d envision that as almost being a TV Season Folder of movies in my general movie library. I click on James Bond, and it drills down to a movie menu specifically comprised of James Bond movies.

Same could be used for Marvel movies, among a few other large collections of movies I can think of.

The big ranting point is that this feature has been implemented in Kodi for a while: http://kodi.wiki/view/movie_sets and the Plex Dev team hasn’t seen the need to patch it in…

@ahughes03 said:
@nigelpb: I believe that people want to see Categories implemented in a way that would “stack” like-type movies. I’ve taken the time to rip all of the James Bond movies into my server, and the individual movies are scattered throughout my library, based on their individual titles. It’s my understanding that people would like for Plex to intuitively understand that, despite the given names of these movies, they’re all James Bond movies, and therefore Plex should “stack” all these movies into a “collection” called James Bond. Personally, I’d envision that as almost being a TV Season Folder of movies in my general movie library. I click on James Bond, and it drills down to a movie menu specifically comprised of James Bond movies.

Same could be used for Marvel movies, among a few other large collections of movies I can think of.

The big ranting point is that this feature has been implemented in Kodi for a while: http://kodi.wiki/view/movie_sets and the Plex Dev team hasn’t seen the need to patch it in…

I just edit each james bond and put James bond on the sort title. That way its all under J for James Bond and all next to each other. I can see categories being useful (but I still probably would never use them). I think overall Plex does a great job, yes they think choice overcomplicates things but I will always prefer choices. Make the defaults whatever way Plex thinks it works best. Plex pulled the same thing with blur/dim for the backgrounds of the fanart. After enough people chimed in (10+ thread pages and about how hard it would be to add this) the choice was added in and defaulted to blur (perfect) in a day for the Roku. Yes, metrics can be skewed when looking at what choices people do change from the default but are better than nothing. A lot of people just will not know what settings do so will never change them. So the blur/dim might show only 1% users change a setting but that 99% can be people just do not know (not that they do not want to make the change).
I think a lot of the backlash in this thread is just releasing anger/frustration/sadness when they see a feature they see as worthless coming out before a feature they consider useful. Just remember it goes both ways. I see photos and music talked a lot. Many avenues already exist for photos and music already so I can see many not caring and would rather the resources be used for the top requests. The top requests gave people a hint of hope that features that got voted highest would be given priority over lower ones (whether that was the intent I think that is what happened). But Plex can do whatever they want. Plex is a company and has to be ran like a company to make profit. Some features take a long time (SSL security, but are awesome when released). Alternative somewhat exists but people still come back to Plex. I remember I started with Boxee Box and how everyone had high hope in the beginning only to have that hope plummet as the company shifted focus away from the “power users” to the general public. We all know how that ended up.

Noticed one thing here, guys… Most of those that think us “power users” are whining in this thread are either new in the last year users, or have under 500 posts to their name.

These are the guys that haven’t seen a lot of the issues most of the rest of us have been dealing with for quite a while now. So since they haven’t had the issues cropping up, they are taking Plex as it is. All of it’s shortcoming and great things combined. (Plex does have a lot of great things about it, no denying that at all. But it could have a lot MORE great things if the Team works on many of these Feature Requests.)

These guys aren’t likely to need Server Side Per User Speed Limits, as they may only have the immediate members of their households as their only shared users. And none of these users are likely to stream from outside the house. (Wait until the kids are teens and going over to friend’s houses and streaming, though.)

These are the folks that would never use Desktop Sync to put a couple of movies on a laptop so they can watch something in the air, and leave their servers set up and running at home for the family to enjoy while they are gone. (Or traveling with the kids in the back seat, etc…)

These guys probably don’t use Audio Books, so support for that hasn’t crossed their minds. The idea of driving in traffic and listening to a book on the road is one they haven’t wrapped their heads around. Forget about comic book or ebook support, too. That’s perhaps even more fringe, right?

They’re not worried their teen age daughter is streaming stuff after mom and dad went to bed. So historical tracking is wasteful to develop. And if they DO have Remote Access enabled, and someone has gotten access to their server, they don’t care. The friend from work sharing out his Plex ID to everyone at work isn’t an issue, is it?

Most of them probably have 200-300 movies and maybe 4 or 5 TV shows they store. So finding something with a working filtering system hasn’t crossed their minds. (Try this with 2000 movies and 100+ TV shows and see how difficult it can become.)

Quite a lot of them don’t understand what transcoding actually entails, so the idea of HW accelerated transcoding seems like it’s unnecessary. (But they likely still can’t figure out why some media buffers when they watch it.)

The idea of Collections in the scrolling mass of movies in a library hasn’t crossed their minds, because they may have just a few movies, so having the Harry Potters and the Star Wars as separate icons isn’t a big deal to them. Imagine trying to find one specific move in the Twilight series (which isn’t named Twilight:???) and trying to play it in the correct order. (Or Jurassic park trilogy? How about the James Bond movies?)

I wonder how quick any of them change their minds when they start to realize they need the features we’ve been fighting to get in the suite? Do you think any of them would come back and eat some crow on the forums? Yeah, probably not… :frowning: Does anyone think they might come and THANK those of us fighting for these things, even if we don’t actually USE them? Yeah, probably not that either. :frowning:

To be clear on this: I listed features above that I wouldn’t use, but listed them because they are active Feature Requests and each of them have followings on their own respective threads. If you can pick the ones I wouldn’t use, well points to you… (Most of you old timers here can probably guess on most of them, anyway.)

So remember… This thread has been about fighting for these Feature Requests, and not about our own individual pet requests. There are way too many things we need to be fighting for, that to pick one and run with it defeats the whole purpose. I know we’re never going to change @elan’s mind about this. At least not until the tide is overwhelmingly in our favor. That’s what I had hoped this thread would be about. @elan’s participation in it has just confirmed for a lot of us just how much of a waste of time this whole thing actually is, though. Feature Requests are just too boring!

@nigelpb said:
What’s the big deal with ‘Categories’? I don’t see what the need is. I have a thousand or more movies. I don’t need Plex to tell me whether they are Drama or Fantasy or Science Fiction or whatever.

It is not so much categories/genres, but a proper implementation of Collections that would be useful. I.e. properly grouping series of movies together and displaying as a single item in the movies view.

If you have movies part of a collection that all start with the same name (i.e. Captain America), it is not so bad listing them all invididually- as you can put a custom sort on them and they will show together and in the proper order. But when you have a collection of movies (i.e.The Dark Night collection) that do not all start with the same name, it becomes a very fragmented experience.

@nigelpb said:
I suspect that the 1% who are whinging about deficiencies in Plex are the extreme case. Most users will be like me. 1 or 2 TVs. Maybe a tablet or 2. One PMS. 4-8TB TV & movies. No remote access. No serving up content to friends & neighbours.

BTW Whoever came up with the ridiculous notion that if Plex were Open Source then all these problems would be solved clearly knows nothing of the history of Plex & it’s origin as the Mac port of Xbox Media Centre. It’s precisely because Plex is not Open Source & has been developed by a single project by a single organisation that it is where it is today & is streets ahead of any competing product of which there are none that even come close.

Please tell me where Plex is ‘streets’ ahead of Emby. Granted I have just started using plex again after a long hiatus (of using Emby), but I am having a hard time identifying many feature sets where Plex is leaps ahead of Emby. The only one that really comes to mind is the reason I am giving Plex another go in the first place - the Plex app on the Shield can pass-through HD audio, where Emby shield app cannot yet.

@MikeG6.5 said:
Noticed one thing here, guys… Most of those that think us “power users” are whining in this thread are either new in the last year users, or have under 500 posts to their name.

These are the guys that haven’t seen a lot of the issues most of the rest of us have been dealing with for quite a while now.

So bacically if you have under 500 posts you believe the people don’t know what they want or need?

This is a ridiculous comment!

Who cares how many posts someone has?

@foghat said:

@nigelpb said:
What’s the big deal with ‘Categories’? I don’t see what the need is. I have a thousand or more movies. I don’t need Plex to tell me whether they are Drama or Fantasy or Science Fiction or whatever.

It is not so much categories/genres, but a proper implementation of Collections that would be useful. I.e. properly grouping series of movies together and displaying as a single item in the movies view.

If you have movies part of a collection that all start with the same name (i.e. Captain America), it is not so bad listing them all invididually- as you can put a custom sort on them and they will show together and in the proper order. But when you have a collection of movies (i.e.The Dark Night collection) that do not all start with the same name, it becomes a very fragmented experience.

@nigelpb said:
I suspect that the 1% who are whinging about deficiencies in Plex are the extreme case. Most users will be like me. 1 or 2 TVs. Maybe a tablet or 2. One PMS. 4-8TB TV & movies. No remote access. No serving up content to friends & neighbours.

BTW Whoever came up with the ridiculous notion that if Plex were Open Source then all these problems would be solved clearly knows nothing of the history of Plex & it’s origin as the Mac port of Xbox Media Centre. It’s precisely because Plex is not Open Source & has been developed by a single project by a single organisation that it is where it is today & is streets ahead of any competing product of which there are none that even come close.

Please tell me where Plex is ‘streets’ ahead of Emby. Granted I have just started using plex again after a long hiatus (of using Emby), but I am having a hard time identifying many feature sets where Plex is leaps ahead of Emby. The only one that really comes to mind is the reason I am giving Plex another go in the first place - the Plex app on the Shield can pass-through HD audio, where Emby shield app cannot yet.

We’ll personally having a playstation app is a BIG plus, most of my shared users have one.

@KarlDag said:
We’ll personally having a playstation app is a BIG plus, most of my shared users have one.

PS4?

Emby can now play on that too.

https://emby.media/community/index.php?/blog/1/entry-330-introducing-emby-for-sony-playstation-4-ps4/

@foghat said:
Please tell me where Plex is ‘streets’ ahead of Emby. Granted I have just started using plex again after a long hiatus (of using Emby), but I am having a hard time identifying many feature sets where Plex is leaps ahead of Emby. The only one that really comes to mind is the reason I am giving Plex another go in the first place - the Plex app on the Shield can pass-through HD audio, where Emby shield app cannot yet.

Actually I don’t think Plex is ‘streets’ ahead of Emby mainly because Emby is so obviously a Plex rip-off both in design & business model. I haven’t installed Emby in over a year but last time I did it was a bit rougher round the edges than Plex.

Plex is street ahead of Kodi unless your major use is stealing content.

@NaDs01 said:

@MikeG6.5 said:
Noticed one thing here, guys… Most of those that think us “power users” are whining in this thread are either new in the last year users, or have under 500 posts to their name.

These are the guys that haven’t seen a lot of the issues most of the rest of us have been dealing with for quite a while now.

So bacically if you have under 500 posts you believe the people don’t know what they want or need?

This is a ridiculous comment!

Who cares how many posts someone has?

Evidently Plex does. Because if you have been active on the forums, your input is not valid. It makes you a 1%er and haven’t any clue what the app could be. EDIT: I also explained my rational in the very next paragraph. but I bet you didn’t read tht far, did you?

And yeah, I don’t think you really know what you want or need. I mean you have your own Feature Requests, don’t you? Do you actually think any of them have a chance to come into the app unless the more popular ones come in first? If so, well, I wish you luck man…

Although now I suppose yours are going to get bumped right to the top of the priority list, since none of them have more than single digit backing by the rest of the community… This seems to be Plex’s MO for things lately… :frowning: