Unable to configure automatic selection of both forced and foreign subtitles

[cremor]

Hi,

I recently started using Plex and am quite impressed so far. But there is one thing that I can’t get to work: Automatic subtitle selection.

First some information for expected questions:
Server version 1.14.1.5488.
The client is a Samsung Tizen Smart TV but for this subtitle issue I just used the web interface to check which subtitles were automatically selected.
All my media is in MKV files and has correctly flagged audio and subtitles tracks, both for the languages and the forced-flags. Plex correctly shows them with their language and forced indicators.
I know that the selected subtitles won’t change once I manually selected them. I’ve done the “Plex dance” for ones that had manual selections.

Now let me decribe what I want:
Audio: Should be German if available, English otherwise.
Subtitles:
For German audio: German forced subtitles should be shown.
For English audio: English (full) subtitels should be shown.

Explanation: I don’t need subtitles for German since that’s my first language, but I still need the forced German subtitles for parts where they speak in some other (e.g. alien) language. For English audio, I’d like to have full subtitles so that I understand everything correctly.

What that goal in mind, I tried the following settings:

Settings 1)
Automatically select audio and subtitle tracks: On
Preferred audio language: German
Preferred subtitle language: English
Auto-select subtitle mode: Shown with foreign audio

This results in:
For German audio: Not working at all.
Problem 1: German forced subtitles are not shown (unless they are the only subtitle track).
Problem 2: English forced subtitles are shown if available - even if German forced subtitles are also available.

For English audio: Working correctly.

Settings 2)
Automatically select audio and subtitle tracks: On
Preferred audio language: German
Preferred subtitle language: German
Auto-select subtitle mode: Shown with foreign audio

This results in:
For German audio: Working correctly.
For English audio: Not working at all. No full English subtitles are shown (unless they are the only subtitle track).

So I found settings that work for German audio and settings that work for English audio. But how do I get both?

In my opinion my settings 1 are the correct one but Plex doesn’t behave correctly. I configure it exactly like I want, but in addition to that I want to get forced subtitles. Forced subtitles should never be turned off - that’s why they are called “forced” after all.
And the “Problem 2” that I described is completely weird. Everything else can somehow be explained by the wording of the settings and the documentation - if you assume Plex doesn’t correctly handle the forced flag - but that one doesn’t make sense at all.

I don’t think that my goal is weird or too complex to be supported. Does anyone know how to reach it?

[NewPlaza]

@cremor

I don’t need subtitles for German since that’s my first language, but I still need the forced German subtitles for parts where they speak in some other (e.g. alien) language. For English audio, I’d like to have full subtitles so that I understand everything correctly.

As I can tell you can only have it one way. Not two, or three, or four…
Plex will ignore the forced flag set on your mkv files.
Was playing around yesterday and found this out

Forget Audio and Subtitle Selection after XXX days or Watched

Hey @leelynds Just found out something very interesting… Though not too helpful in your request but it couldof, lol [account0] [account1] [account2] [account3] [account4] Too bad it doen’t revert back to the forced lang or your preferred lang. Too bad, we could of faked plex out by selecting another lang for the secondary track… I know, not idea. Plex will select the lang from your preferred lang by default and ignore the MKV forced flag.

@cremor

but in addition to that I want to get forced subtitles. Forced subtitles should never be turned off - that’s why they are called “forced” after all.

I was gonna go on a rant about that very thing but realized that although I prefer it this way, it shouldn’t be this way.
Don’t get me wrong. I know why this is the case.
An example. You have 1000 movies with dual-audio English/German. English is default and forced, German is secondary(not forced). I would be able to play all my movies in English without needing to change anything. My German friend could also play all my movies without changing a thing. It has it’s good, it has it’s bad.

@cremor

So I found settings that work for German audio and settings that work for English audio. But how do I get both?

You cannot.

@cremor

And the “Problem 2” that I described is completely weird. Everything else can somehow be explained by the wording of the settings and the documentation - if you assume Plex doesn’t correctly handle the forced flag - but that one doesn’t make sense at all.

Plex cares more about the language of the track than the flags that are set.
The force flag comes to play when your audio is the same language as the subtitle.

[cremor]

@NewPlaza

As I can tell you can only have it one way. Not two, or three, or four…
Plex will ignore the forced flag set on your mkv files.
Was playing around yesterday and found this out
Forget Audio and Subtitle Selection after XXX days or Watched - #8 by NewPlaza

I don’t see this as two distinct ways. I see this as “show subtitles for foreign audio” (which Plex supports) while still following the forced flags (which should be totally independent of user settings, see Matroska spec quote below).

@NewPlaza

I was gonna go on a rant about that very thing but realized that although I prefer it this way, it shouldn’t be this way.
Don’t get me wrong. I know why this is the case.
An example. You have 1000 movies with dual-audio English/German. English is default and forced, German is secondary(not forced). I would be able to play all my movies in English without needing to change anything. My German friend could also play all my movies without changing a thing. It has it’s good, it has it’s bad.

Your example would still work fine if Plex followed the forced flag, shouldn’t it?

@NewPlaza

Plex cares more about the language of the track than the flags that are set.
The force flag comes to play when your audio is the same language as the subtitle.

Yes, this seems like the way Plex handles it. But it’s not the way the Matroska spec defines it. Quote:

The “forced” flag tells the playback application that it MUST display/play this track or another track of the same kind that also has its “forced” flag set. When there are multiple “forced” tracks, the player should decide on the language of the forced flag or use the default flag if no track matches the use languages.

[NewPlaza]

@cremor

I don’t see this as two distinct ways. I see this as “show subtitles for foreign audio” (which Plex supports) while still following the forced flags (which should be totally independent of user settings, see Matroska spec quote below).

But it’s not. Plex won’t.

@cremor

Yes, this seems like the way Plex handles it. But it’s not the way the Matroska spec defines it.

But as you have seen, Plex doesn’t honor the forced flags.

@cremor

Your example would still work fine if Plex followed the forced flag, shouldn’t it?

No because English is the forced lang and would(should) supersede “anything” else.
My example shows that while the forced flag is set for English plex will still play German(if the user has that set as preferred). ignoring the forced flag for English.

[cremor]

@NewPlaza

But it’s not. Plex won’t.

But as you have seen, Plex doesn’t honor the forced flags.

Yes, and I see this as a shortcoming.

@NewPlaza

No because English is the forced lang and would(should) supersede “anything” else.
My example shows that while the forced flag is set for English plex will still play German(if the user has that set as preferred). ignoring the forced flag for English.

If the movie has forced subtitles, it should have them for all supported languages. So usually a dual language movie will have those tracks:

• Video (default on, forced off)
• German audio (default on, forced off)
• English audio (default off, forced off)
• German sub forced (default on, forced on)
• German sub full (default off, forced off)
• English sub forced (default off, forced on)
• English sub full (default off, forced off)

If Plex selects the forced subtitles that match the audio language (like it should according to the Matroska spec) everything will work fine.

[NewPlaza]

Oh, I know!!

[cremor]

Does someone else have some insight here, preferably someone from the Plex team?
Or is there some existing statement from the Plex team on why they don’t follow the forced flag? If yes, could someone please point me to it?

[NewPlaza]

Sorry friend. This in not likely to change. The way plex handles the flags are for the general masses out there and not for the one or 10 people.

[cremor]

It seems like the Plex developers changed something on how forced subtitles are handled. There is now a new option in the user settings on how forced subtitles should be selected.

Sadly I don’t see an immediate way on how the new available options help in my situation. Also, the documentation hasn’t been updated for the new options yet.

And I can’t test it myself to find out if the options help because the whole subtitle selection seems to be broken in PMS 1.15.3.876, see [BUG - PMS 1.15 regression] Automatic subtitle selection broken

[cremor]

The changelog of the PMS 1.15.4 beta looks very promising:

(Subtitles) Auto select forced subtitles when not listening to foreign audio (#6126)

I hope this is what I was missing! I’ll test and report back once the version is released (assuming the bug linked in my last post will also be fixed by then).