Looking for an option to put at my girlfriend’s place. She has a 2012 Samsung Smart TV and the associated Plex client and while it works most of the time, it seems to be very finicky and is not officially supported by Plex. Last night was the epitome of problems with buffering every 15 seconds, while my phone on her WiFi at the same location was absolutely fine. TV is wired. Restarted TV several times, messed with buffering options, etc. Even remote restarted my server as a last result.
I’d like to put her on something that works and works well without a lot of hand holding. Like most people who aren’t very tech savvy, she wants something that ‘just works’. While I’m most adept at the HTPC side of things PMP and OpenPHT, it’s not an affordable option for her at this time. Looking at Chromecast, Roku, FireTV or something else that might work at an affordable price.
@Warmongerx said:
Looking for an option to put at my girlfriend’s place. She has a 2012 Samsung Smart TV and the associated Plex client and while it works most of the time, it seems to be very finicky and is not officially supported by Plex. Last night was the epitome of problems with buffering every 15 seconds, while my phone on her WiFi at the same location was absolutely fine. TV is wired. Restarted TV several times, messed with buffering options, etc. Even remote restarted my server as a last result.
I’d like to put her on something that works and works well without a lot of hand holding. Like most people who aren’t very tech savvy, she wants something that ‘just works’. While I’m most adept at the HTPC side of things PMP and OpenPHT, it’s not an affordable option for her at this time. Looking at Chromecast, Roku, FireTV or something else that might work at an affordable price.
Any advice?
What file format was the offending show. Check if it was anything other than Mp4. Suggestion optimize the file and try again
@Gdr56 said:
What file format was the offending show. Check if it was anything other than Mp4. Suggestion optimize the file and try again
99.5% of everything I have is MKV. The only things I have non MKV are older shows, which she doesn’t access. She is set to Transcode, the server is more than capable. We’re both on the same ISP(Comcast) and it’s random when it’s a problem. Sometimes it’s a week or more before it’s an issue. I can monitor bandwidth from my end while she’s playing and when she buffers, you can see the server is not sending any data for a second. Yet my phone will be perfectly fine on her WiFi. I thought optimize was for servers that weren’t capable of keeping up with the load?
My son and daughter who play remotely on XBox one clients from two different states have no issue You can see that the server has transcoded up to 10% ahead of the actual play time on her end via PlexPy, so it’s not a server side resource problem. It’s something to do with the client, thus my looking for another solution.
I see a myriad of Roku products ranging from the Express to the Ultra. Doing a quick look through, I’m guessing the Streaming Stick would work? Is there much difference in them all, aside from the 4K versions. She has a 1080p TV with a Samsung 2.1 soundbar system.
A stick would work.
But I think I read that the TV is hard wired.
If that is the case and or it is possible to CAT 6 connect, I would recommend a Roku 3,
The sticks are WiFi only but the Roku 3 you can CAT 6 connect.
For best HD performance I always opt for Hard wired connections as WiFi can be iffy at high bit rates.
Roku 3 - solid performer - enjoys the finest of the Plex apps, and RARflix (privately developed Plex app) still considered by many the last of the great Plex apps.
Every new Roku is plagued with issues. DO NOT PURCHASE!
Roku Stick - a whole lot of suck in a very small package.
I have a roku, but i prefer the Apple TV.
I think the UI is much nicer and loading time on most shows/tvs are much better.
Mostly because the processor and wifi hardware are better on the apple TV, it is more expensive however.
As long as you do not plan on using “advanced” audio (2.1 and basic 5.1 seem fine) then all of the latest Rokus work fine. One other thing is that the Roku Ultra and Premier had, and may still have, a problem with direct playing anamorphic content in that the picture does not correctly stretch when direct playing. However it may be fixed in the latest update as I have not tested it primarily because my Ultra has not yet updated. Also the problem videos play fine if you force them to transcode.
I have an Ultra and it was basically crap to use until the last update before the current one. However, since that update, my Ultra is as solid to use as my Roku 3s. The remote has some idiosyncrasies but those are not too serious and I rarely notice them anymore. Of course I often use my Harmony remote instead of the one that came with my Ultra.
One other thing is that with the Roku you also get the best developer on any of the client platforms. He keeps the app as advanced as Plex allows any app to be and he interacts more and better with the forums than any other client developer. (Before his head swells to much I do have to say that many of the other client developers have set the bar pretty low.)
I have three Rokus, (an Ultra and two Roku 3s) a Shield TV, a Fire TV, a Raspberry PI running PMP , another PI running RasPlex and numerous computers running different versions of the client software. Of all those I use my Rokus almost all the time. I only use the others when I wish to test something or just want to see if the user interface has improved.
One caveat for the Rokus is that they have a pretty limited supported codec set. They do not direct play as many formats as most of the other clients. So the choices become to get as many files as possible into compatible formats and/or assure that your server is powerful enough to transcode the incompatible formats on the fly.
If you take care of the file problems in some way then there really is no better or easier to use user interface than you find on the Roku.
Edit: Just wanted to add that, as with all things networked, I STRONGLY recommend getting a Roku that can connect wired and using it that way. Wired is always more stable than wireless as it is pretty much immune to many of the problems that can plague wireless.
@Gdr56 said:
What file format was the offending show. Check if it was anything other than Mp4. Suggestion optimize the file and try again
99.5% of everything I have is MKV. The only things I have non MKV are older shows, which she doesn’t access. She is set to Transcode, the server is more than capable. We’re both on the same ISP(Comcast) and it’s random when it’s a problem. Sometimes it’s a week or more before it’s an issue. I can monitor bandwidth from my end while she’s playing and when she buffers, you can see the server is not sending any data for a second. Yet my phone will be perfectly fine on her WiFi. I thought optimize was for servers that weren’t capable of keeping up with the load?
My son and daughter who play remotely on XBox one clients from two different states have no issue You can see that the server has transcoded up to 10% ahead of the actual play time on her end via PlexPy, so it’s not a server side resource problem. It’s something to do with the client, thus my looking for another solution.
Interesting, so your suggesting it not File format. No Subs. To eliminate all current possibles.
Had your modem at home been rebooted.
Which Broadband technology , ADSL, Fibre etc. ADSL can be a pain, if your being throttled by the ISP. A common problem in the states with so many Video Streaming applications. I have heard that Comcast will throttle if Netflix or similar is being used at peak demand. They are a subscription pay TV Network as well
I believe purchasing anything at this point without being able to return it could be a waste of money. Also i will point out the TV is getting on in age and the processor in that vintage TV would be bare bones. Most Smart Tv are quad core now days and are much snappier and more reliable. Did you try on the same night mentioned on a desktop or laptop hardwired? That would eliminate TV and TV app if it was similar.
i would suggest ticking as many boxes off prior to purchasing a TV box like Roku or similar. Spending your girlfriend money that does not fix the issue could be flawed.
Comcast only offers one Broadband type…Cable. I’m on 200Mb/s, she’s on 100. We’re literally 3 miles apart and connect to the same Central hub. MKV file types no subs. As I mentioned, I could watch the same show from my phone at her house on WiFi with no issues. Meanwhile my daughter in another state watching on her Xbox has no issues, nor does my son on his Xbox on the other side of town on DSL even at the same time. Yes, rebooted Networking hardware, Modem, Router to no avail on her side. Speedtests were fine from WiFi and PC…occasionally find if they are slow that modem needs a reboot because a new Firmware was pushed to the modem. No packet loss to my server from her place. I can watch the upload from my server via an App on my phone and speeds were constant at around 150k/sec. which is roughly 1/10th of my upload capability.
In talking with Orca, the dev who works for beer money making the Plex client app for 2012-2015 Samsung SmartHub TV’s, it’s a very basic app. Her TV, my old one, a Samsung UN65ES8000 65" TV is by no means a slouch. Yes it does have a Dual Core proc, but I wouldn’t think that would have anything to do with playing already transcoded content, not direct streaming, which according to PlexPy is being dumbed down to nearly SD resolution before being sent over the wire. I lowered her app to 6 as a test bed a few months ago when she was having this issue and it worked until now. With a new public release PMS version in the last week, the problem has resurfaced as well as a new version of her client was updated in the last week automatically via SmartHub, so I’m not sure where the problem is exactly. But being that everyone else has no issues in streaming from me, including me on my phone at her place. It leads me to believe it’s the client or Samsung’s SmartHub or combination there of.
In any case, Best Buy and Amazon have liberal return policies as long as you are an Elite or Prime member, so spending upwards of $60 for a test is worth it.
I appreciate all the responses thus far. Seems Roku is worth a try
@Warmongerx what Plex server version are you running?
If you have time for a test, take that exact same file you had trouble playing and remux it to a MP4 that’s web optimized (MOOV atom at front of file) and give it a different name (e.g Top Gun.mp4) of some movie you don’t already have in your library.
Go back to her place or have her test. Set her Samsung TV to direct play/original and try playing both files. Do you have a problem with the MKV and not the MP4 file?
Many (not all) problems experienced by users is trying to stream non-streaming files. MKV is a storage package and wasn’t designed for streaming. On the other hand an MP4 file with the MOOV atom located at the start of the file can be progressively streamed or direct played with little effort.
In Plex, any time you can’t direct play the file the transcoder comes into play and if it has to convert the video instead of just repackaging it then your quality just went downhill.
Since you mentioned your library is mostly MKV I wouldn’t suggest a Roku since they often have problems with streaming MKV files. Your android and xBox will usually be fine with them. But it’s far better to keep you files in a package meant for progressive streaming.
PS If you want to try a simple test post the XML specs of the file you had trouble playing. (click the 3 dots/Get Info/View XLM link from a web browser on the file) and post it. I’ll find a file that is very similar and create a Plex share with a test library containing two files about 5 minutes in duration of an MKV and MP4 version. You can then try and play both versions to see if there is a problem between them. That would eliminate or conclude if there is a “media” problem between the two formats for her.
Thanks Cayers . I’m running the PMS from a few days ago…1.5.5.3634. I have her set to transcode instead of auto, so she’s not attempting to direct stream, though I have tried both and it didn’t matter for that particular show at least. She watched a few more shows after I left and said that it buffered once or twice on those 40 minutes shows, but not like the one we were attempting.
I understand that transcoding dumbs down the quality, but she doesn’t care too much. This is more around functionality than quality for her.
I’ve attached the XML since it wouldn’t let me post it
Perhaps I don’t understand how this all works then. I was under the assumption that if the PMS is transcoding and not struggling to keep up, as in this case where it’s at least 7-10% ahead of her play time, than it’s just a matter of bandwidth and latency, no?
While I have you, how does the optimized version work exactly. I largely dismissed it since no one was having problems. It says it keeps a optimized version in it’s own folder, does it use that exclusively for remote users? Local users wouldn’t be playing that if they are set to direct play, right?
<MediaContainer size="1" allowSync="1" identifier="com.plexapp.plugins.library" librarySectionID="1" librarySectionTitle="TV Shows" librarySectionUUID="f12d6588-4430-4baf-97b8-f93a7823ebc4" mediaTagPrefix="/system/bundle/media/flags/" mediaTagVersion="1492031874">
<Video ratingKey="66200" key="/library/metadata/66200" parentRatingKey="65274" grandparentRatingKey="65273" guid="com.plexapp.agents.thetvdb://76733/34/6?lang=en" librarySectionID="1" librarySectionKey="/library/sections/1" type="episode" title="What Happened on Exile, Stays on Exile" grandparentKey="/library/metadata/65273" parentKey="/library/metadata/65274" grandparentTitle="Survivor" parentTitle="Season 34" contentRating="TV-PG" summary="Emotions run high when the game begins to take a toll on one tribe, and castaways try to pull their way to safety at a physical immunity challenge." index="6" parentIndex="34" viewCount="1" lastViewedAt="1492146111" year="2017" thumb="/library/metadata/66200/thumb/1492058226" art="/library/metadata/65273/art/1492058226" parentThumb="/library/metadata/65274/thumb/1492058226" grandparentThumb="/library/metadata/65273/thumb/1492058226" grandparentArt="/library/metadata/65273/art/1492058226" grandparentTheme="/library/metadata/65273/theme/1492058226" duration="2551648" originallyAvailableAt="2017-04-12" addedAt="1492058205" updatedAt="1492058226">
<Media videoResolution="720" id="123366" duration="2551648" bitrate="4263" width="1280" height="720" aspectRatio="1.78" audioChannels="6" audioCodec="ac3" videoCodec="h264" container="mkv" videoFrameRate="NTSC" videoProfile="high">
<Part accessible="1" exists="1" id="125660" key="/library/parts/125660/1492067328/file.mkv" duration="2551648" file="D:\TV.Series\Survivor\Season 34\Survivor S34E06 What Happened on Exile, Stays on Exile HDTV-720p.mkv" size="1359670390" container="mkv" videoProfile="high">
<Stream id="304163" streamType="1" default="1" codec="h264" index="0" bitrate="3879" bitDepth="8" chromaSubsampling="4:2:0" colorRange="tv" colorSpace="bt709" frameRate="29.970" hasScalingMatrix="0" height="720" level="41" profile="high" refFrames="5" scanType="progressive" width="1280"/>
<Stream id="304164" streamType="2" selected="1" default="1" codec="ac3" index="1" channels="6" bitrate="384" language="English" languageCode="eng" audioChannelLayout="5.1(side)" samplingRate="48000"/>
<Stream id="304165" streamType="3" codec="srt" index="2" bitrate="0" language="English" languageCode="eng"/>
</Part>
</Media>
<Extras size="0"></Extras>
</Video>
</MediaContainer>
Casual Observations:
That file looks pretty good to Direct Play, but I don’t have a clue what that app in the TV is going to do. It’s a High Profile at Level 4.1. I would inspect the TV app settings and see if there’s a ‘Max 264 Level’ setting. If there is make it 4.1.
The total bit rate of that file is 4263Kbps (a tad over 4Mbps). Being a former CrapCast customer I wouldn’t have any trouble believing that either end of this mating wasn’t able to keep up, but just in case that’s not the issue and from the described symptoms it’s almost like the buffer fills up, can’t keep up, buffer empties, needs to get more, lather, rinse, repeat.
Setting the quality setting on the TV app could be an issue. If you just look at the selections and pick 720p you’ll also note it says 4Mbps. Your file is fatter than 4Mbps. Result, instant video transcode. Put the app quality at 8Mbps. See what happens.
The trick is to determine what bit rate can be reliably received at the TV and get the source bit rate to fit on that truck while making sure it’ll Direct Play. Radios in close proximity to TV Sets are notorious for ‘underperforming’ in the WiFi bandwidth department. I may have missed it above, but if possible stick a wire from the router in that back of that thing and get it off the WiFi. If that’s not possible move the router closer to the TV - or something - like inspecting the local WiFi congestion (WiFi Analyzer is free for most smartphones) and selecting a channel that isn’t populated by every other router in the neighborhood.
Perhaps the other devices are set so they can Direct Play the Video, but the audio needs transcoding and that’s easy for any server to do, but in the TV app settings make sure AC3 audio is enabled. If it is enabled your TV Can’t deal with it so that audio will at least need to transcode. That’s not the worst thing that could happen - if you can get the Video to Direct Play.
Also on the client check to see if there is a profile setting. I’m not an Apple guy so I don’t know. But if it’s set to 4.0 then bump this up to 4.1.
Let’s save the optimized versions for another thread. But in a nutshell it will create another version of the file with specific thresholds to allow it to direct play. This is useful if you MUST have a version that is 4Mb or under for example, but not ideal to just create a direct play version of said file since you’ll have at least 2 versions of the file. For the latter case it’s far better to create a process that will take any file and output an MP4/h.264/AAC+additiona audio tracks. This file would then direct play generally speaking on anything that isn’t bitrate constrained.
Thanks guys, but I mentioned in my second to last post that I was monitoring the bandwidth being sent from my server was averaging 150k/sec (1.2Mbps). No where near the 4Mbps that the file is in it’s original form. I also mentioned that I set her explicitly to transcode so that there was no question as to what it was doing.
The only options for quality in the TV client, as I’ve mentioned, is a number setting, 1 through 12. default is 7. I lowered it to 6 which worked for the past few months.
Cayers - I’m not sure where you are getting an Apple reference from, lol.
JuiceWSA - My original post says that everything is hardwired…BUT, my phone on her WiFi had no issues. In fact my speedtests from across the house, sitting on the couch in front of the TV were hitting 80Mbps. As for comsuck. yeah I know in alot of areas, they are pretty bad, however in my neck of the woods, I’ve only had one problem in the 11 years I’ve had them. It’s been rock solid for me and being in the IT field, gaming and working from home a lot, I’m a highly critical of my Internet’s performance. so I don’t believe it’s that. I also tried fiddling with the buffer options to no avail.
Unfortunately from the TV app, I don’t believe there is anyway to hit a button to see the “Informational data” like you can on a PC, by hitting ‘i’ so I can’t tell what the buffers are doing, but that would’ve been instrumental alright.
I should also mention that the server employs the streaming brain options. I have it set to 12Mbps and limit remote stream bitrate to 4Mbps. Now before anyone jumps on that, I already had it explained from Orca, that it only comes into play when there are enough users on the server trying to stream that it limits each one to 4Mbps, otherwise the client is able to use as much as it can up to 12Mbps. In either case, this episode at least, while being transcoded, was at 1.2Mbps.
A Roku is a great client. I have a Roku 3 & an Ultra which great playing most anything. Another slick alternative is the Apple Fire TV 4K which has a richer UI than the basic UI of the Roku & might be more girlfriend friendly. It can also run Kodi & the Plex for Kodi add-on allows Plex to play most any content using the Kodi player rather than the native Fire TV player.
