Do you have hdr? Planet earth 2, Blade runner 2049, John wick 2, Black Panther are all good examples.
It’s hdr that makes a difference. 4k makes a huge difference on streaming videos though like YouTube and Netflix, because it brings it much closer to Blu-ray quality.
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Also (and I know this might sound crazy) Maze Runner: The Death Cure looks absolutely phenomenal in 4K HDR. It is a very substantial and tangible improvement over the standard 1080p SDR BD.
I find 4k just has better details… so if your source is a proper clean 4k everything will just look that much crisper. The big thing though is HDR… I was skeptical on that but it really is night and day for difference. I was watching Godless on Netflix on my 4k HDR TV and kept thinking they really nailed the cinematography in this but then I watched an episode on a different non hdr TV and thought something was broken… realized then I was watching HDR version earlier.
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Plex:
ffmpeg should allow tone mapping 4K–>1080p
Hopefully can be done in Plex PMS in future!
https://stevens.li/guides/video/converting-hdr-to-sdr-with-ffmpeg/
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They already do it for direct play of files, as long as you are playing the video in their native Plex Media Player.
Since they have and use an HDR to SDR tone map solution for direct play, one would think they would transcode to 10bit/bt2020 and just change the resolution. Then they could apply the same tone mapping they use for the native video.
HDR video played on SDR monitor using Plex Media Player native tone mapping through direct play
HDR video played on SDR monitor using Plex Media Player after transcoding.
It’s not the 4K. Hence the whole point of this thread.
It’s the HDR.
I’d take 1080p HDR over 4K SDR any day. The extra resolution is nice - if you’re sitting 3’ from a very large TV. But the extra color information and presentation, especially the wide contrast is as noticeable from SDR (“standard definition range”) color as 1080p/HD video was a jump from 480p/SD video.
HDR video played on SDR monitor using Plex Media Player native tone mapping through direct play
HDR video played on SDR monitor using Plex Media Player after transcoding.
Why not keep the color info and transcode the resolution only? Then let your already built-in-to Plex Media Player do the tone mapping? It’s pretty good.
I’m always amazed that people who use Plex seem to not understand the HDR vs 4K discussion.
“I’m always amazed that people who use Plex seem to not understand the HDR vs 4K discussion.”
Do a survey.
Ask a few simple questions
Do use watch 4K media?
Do you care?
Do you watch HDR Media?
Do you know what HDR is/does?
Do you care?
I predict you will be disappointed with the results.
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It would be awesome if to mapping could be implemented when ffmpeg transcode x265/HDR encodes !
I could only be disappointed if any of my family or extended Plex users had any idea what HDR is, or that it isn’t all about “ooh, 4K”.
It reminds me of the CPU speed battles when my brother-in-law was excited because he got a great deal on a “faster laptop” then the one I recommended. It was a single core Athlon that, sure, ran at 2.8 Ghz instead of the dual-core Intel that was running at 2.4. I started for about 10 seconds to explain instructions per cycle, and the advantage of having a dual core (admittedly this was relatively early in the multi-core arena so not much was well programmed to use multiple threads, but still…)
I often re-encode my 4K videos down to 1920 or even 720 using x264 with 10 bit HDR (you can use 10 bit SDR, but I’m not convinced yet. It smacks of the “coloring the edge of the CD with green marker to make it sound more natural”.) The problem is - again - this only makes a difference on SDR monitors and TVs if your player has good tone mapping. Plex’s Media Player does a terrific job, as long as you don’t ask Plex to do the transcoding.
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The only problem is tone mapping on transcoding is a significant CPU draw.
In a perfect world, all the players would have built-i tone mapping, and then Plex could just keep the 10 bit color data. That way it works on an HDR screen, and still looks good on an SDR screen.
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And this is why I moved to Emby. Things happen faster there, and the developers are nicer and more engaging.
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“In a perfect world, all the players would have built-i tone mapping”
I agree
“The only problem is tone mapping on transcoding is a significant CPU draw.”
It could be an option so the administrator would have the choice to enable it or not according to his hardware
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Simple solution is allow post commands for the transcoder BUT… this opens the door for people then expecting support for the 1000s permutations of ffmpeg options.
HDR > 4k hands down, especially in scenes with bright lights and reflections and in dark scenes. Prior to HDR, dark scenes outright sucked. But 4k is still worth it in maybe 25% of scenes. Like landscape scenes and when filming close to a person’s face (hair details & wrinkles). They should implement dynamic metadata for resolution so a movie can be both 1080p and 4k for select scenes just like Dolby Vision / HDR10+ adjust each scenes for HDR. That would drastically reduce file size while maintaining perceived image detail.
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Agreed, this is a huge problem for me.
I have a lot of HDR content, but if it is synced to my iPad then it looks rubbish. If Plex can play hdr on an SDR display, it should also be able to transcode it correctly.
Now that modern processors and GPUs can do multiple simultaneous 4K->1080p transcodes with ease it is time for Plex to support this as the “bad colors” are a real pain for end users and STILL the only solution on the server side is keep HDR and non-HDR versions.
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Agreed. The first service that does this properly will get my money. I don’t want to have 2 different versions of each movie i own. Full copies of blue-rays are big enough as it is i dont want to double up on every single movie going forward it’s not like Non HDR 4k will ever be a thing…everything going forward is HDR. I figure i am wasting 400GB on just doubles at this point. My server easily transcodes 4K but whats the point when it looks terrible when it comes out.
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Your right about HDR10 (which is what we’re talking about). For HLG (popular in YouTube and used on Sony xperias) HDR (gamma) is just metadata data on top of SDR (log).
The word is HDR10 looks better than HLG…I tend to agree if I’m comparing HDR10 movies I have against HLG HDR videos on Youtube
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Fair point indeed. I was meaning to imply HDR10 by saying simply HDR, but that isn’t correct at all.
unfortunately emby has the same garbage quality as plex when it comes to casting 4k …
