all you folks that keep harping on tone mapping and 4k transcoding.
Your very simple solution is to keep 4k content in a separate library, and don’t use it for non-4k clients.
Simple and it works right now, and you don’t have to worry about all the extra hardware needed for transcoding 4k.
Oh sure, you may need to keep a duplicate 720 or 1080 (whatever your preference), but if you are going to complain about another few gigs when you are throwing 60+ gigs for a full 4k bluray remux, then that just shows you how silly the whole thing is.
Totally disconnected from what the issue is entirely. Wish there were a facpalm emote… The whole damn point of transcoding in the first place is to not have to keep multiple copies of your library at a any time.
If you are keeping multiple copies than maybe you should get a version in every format to ensure direct play on every device. I mean using your logic there is no need for a transcoder at all. Yeah, that would be silly now wouldn’t it.
as you are no doubt aware, 4k and hdr are an entirely new ball game, not only when it comes to transcoding and the resources it requires.
but even as to the distribution and availability of both clients and content, and the bandwidth required.
further the fact that HDR is not backwards compatible with SDR and has its own resource issues.
then there is the fact that half the people complaining about it, do not even have all the hardware required for full 4k/hdr/atmos direct play, which is their own fault.
and so I repeat, keep your 4k content separated and don’t play 4k content on clients that cannot direct play it.
Exactly.
Which brings me to another bug bear with Plex.
Apparently PMP can now tone-map HDR to SDR since a few days ago.
Shame it can’t do HDR as HDR yet.
I’m pretty sure I know which I would have preferred resources spent on.
Repeating your statement doesn’t make it correct. The point of transcoding is so you don’t need multiple copies. With updates that this thread is asking for your concerns about device compatibility will be a thing of the past. We will be able to transcode 4k hdr to sdr without issue. Some clients already can.
yes this is great news… but unfortunately I cannot see my Chromecast in the cast options…
Its almost like the Big Monitor Industry is somehow persuading the Video Player Companies to not research/create this so people all buy HDR capable monitors/phones … haha
Not too relevant, since it doesn’t work. My guess is that the person was imagining it. Server-side tone mapping isn’t working for anyone else. Eagerly waiting for it though. My current solution is to keep 4K HDR content separate. 4K SDR content will mix nicely in with your other content though. Just make sure your hardware is up to the task.
So - the answer is to force the users to come up with an increased cost, and increased complexity system rather than provide a solution.
All you folks that keep harping that you don’t make the appropriate pay at your career relative to the financial gain provided to the company, the answer is to quit sleeping and get another job.
All you folks that keep harping that your expesnive car was manufactured poorly and/or unsafely, the answer is to just buy a an additional cheap, safe car. What’s another 20K for an etry level Accord when you’ve already spent 80K on your expensive vehicle?
That is BS. Get off your white knight, defend Plex horse and recognize the answer is not to tell the consumer to pound sand. Unless you want to lose the consumers.
How about letting the Plex developers provide a solution, instead of taking it upon yourself to tell persons with a valid improvement that they should shut up.
I’ll see your logical fallacy and raise you another;
It is not that your car was manufactured poorly or unsafely, it is only that you want to fly it through the air with all the safety of an airplane, instead of driving it on a normal road in a legal manner.
I think you’re missing my point and quoting out of context.
I don’t think Plex has an obligation to do anything. But to suggest that it’s whiny or wrong to provide requests for features as a paying customer… That’s foolish.
What I don’t at all agree with is that someone not working for Plex should suggest that asking for an improvement is wrong, and we should just deal with it and create and keep multiple copies of files, wasting hard drive space and complicating use.
The whole point of Plex was to improve on the original XBMC. Most for profit companies welcome suggestions.
@timekills you may have made the effort and paid the expense of being able to transcode 4k, however many people come in expecting it to just work (which most of plex does do exactly that), without understanding the magnitude of difficulty of doing so, and then they are unwilling or unable to accept the additional user efforts and monetary costs involved with the actual transcode 4k implementation (ie increased server complexity/costs).
You may have done so knowing (or should have known) about the hdr/sdr issues, and yet still did anyway, which is all fine.
You may (or may not) still underestimate the additional resources needed for HDR to SDR conversion (above and beyond generic 4k support).
Yes, many have requested support for 4k transcoding and for tone mapping/hdr to sdr conversion.
I’ve no doubt that plex is probably working on such thing, but like many things involving plex they don’t offer much in the way of timelines nor commitments to any particular feature implementation.
I am not nor have I suggested that asking for improvement is wrong, but what I do say is that there are simple ways to work around current inconveniences and that people (not necessarily or specifically you) complaining about a lack of plex solution to your problems, while also failing to, or complaining about, the available work arounds.
The simple answer to the title of this thread is; if and when they finish it and are ready to release it.
some of the user base may feel that is an inadequate and/or unacceptable answer, but that is the simple reality of it.
It is “backwards compatible.” You can play HDR content in Windows in most players, e.g. w/ MadVR, and of course a 4K Bluray player will play those 4K discs on a regular TV just fine w/tone-mapping.
However, you are right: HDR is not backwards compatible in Plex. So what we are asking is: make it backwards compatible in Plex.
Btw, direct copies of 4K discs are in the 60-80GB range, and for standard Bluray about 20-30GB. So keeping multiple copies of 4K and non-4K will, best guess, unnecessarily increase storage requirements by about 25%. This is “OK” I guess, but for those of us with ~50TB libraries it becomes a pain. Certainly a kluge.
no, HDR is not backwards compatible, those players are making specific color mapping changes at the client level (and not all clients will have the processing power to do so), and 4k bluray players are entirely different because they have access to both HDR and SDR data on the disk and will send SDR only on SDR devices, and HDR to HDR devices.
the difference between native 4k bluray and a 4k rip is, the HDR metadata is stored separate on a disk, and a rip is a combined data stream.
if you have a direct copy of a 4k, then perhaps you don’t really need a full direct bluray copy… your remote users certainly don’t need it, you can use a ~10mbs 1080 or even 720p rip, or even lower whatever fits your quality/size ratio preference.
I really need this as well. Most of the time, I watch movies remotely and need transcoding. All my HDR content is currently unbearable to watch.
I have two questions:
if the mpv libraries the are used by the native PMP player can do real time tone mapping, why is it so hard for ffmpeg to do the same when transcoding ? (Granted, this is probably more a question for ffmpeg devs)
why can’t the mpv libraries work with transcodes and only work with direct play ? Is it because the transcode will “convert” the 10 bits colors to 8 bits?
