Hello all,
I am trying to stream 4K content from my Synology DS718+ NAS to my LG OLED TV, via the Plex WebOS client. The movie is in MKV format, with HEVC/DTS 5.1. I am having buffering/stuttering issues getting this to play, so I have a few questions that I am hoping can be answered:
- Can 4K content be streamed from my NAS successfully? Is there anything on the NAS side I should be looking at?
- Do I need to make changes to my PMS, in order to successfully handle native 4K content?
- Does Plex optimization, using the original quality option, do anything to help the situation?
- Would Handbrake help the situation, by getting the content into a format that both the NAS and Plex player will like?
I just upgraded the NAS with 8 gig of RAM(4x2). The NAS has both network connections bonded and connected to separate gig switching. When I ran the content I watched the NAS and resources(CPU/Mem) were not going crazy. The network was outputting about 10-12 meg, which should be fine.
Am I missing something here? I really would like to keep the 4K quality, since my LG OLED55E7P TV has everything to display 4K in all its brilliance!
Thanks,
Steve
step 1: confirm your media is playing in original quality (direct play)
e.g. look at https://app.plex.tv/desktop#!/status/playing
if the content doesn’t direct play, you’ll be out of luck… there can be tons of restrictions – even for devices which are officially supporting 4K; some have limits to the bitrate, some have limits to the supported containers, some have restrictions as for which codecs are supported, some don’t like their content mixed with certain subtitles…
(1) yes it can; not much… your best shot is to ensure the client is going for maximum/original quality
(2) not unless you want to add e.g. a NUC or other mini-server
(3) theoretically… but that’ll use the same limited resources of your NAS, so little value add
step 2: if direct play isn’t possible…
(4) that’s sort of outsourcing of the optimization to a more capable machine. before you get into transcoding, you should however be clear what your client supports so you don’t end up transcoding to a format not supported.
Ok so its telling me it is converting(throttled), direct stream audio/video. This would mean my NAS is trying to transcode this on the fly correct?
I am going to look to see how I can get this into a format that both the NAS and client like, without losing the 4K quality. Yes I know…prolly will not happen but I am going to give it a shot.
Thanks for the tip on watching the status of the content playing. I did not know that trick! It is especially helpful when the Plex client gives you no information.
Steve,
Can you provide some specifics please?
What does “Now Playing” show?
What is the XML for the item you’re playing (Hover over it -> Get Info -> View XML) ?
A little Synology DS1813+ can stream 4K UHD without any issues if: A. The TV accepts the container and all codecs inside it B. Networking is fast enough. Most TVs are limited to 100 Mbps suprisingly
@ChuckPA said:
Steve,
Can you provide some specifics please?
What does “Now Playing” show?
What is the XML for the item you’re playing (Hover over it → Get Info → View XML) ?
A little Synology DS1813+ can stream 4K UHD without any issues if: A. The TV accepts the container and all codecs inside it B. Networking is fast enough. Most TVs are limited to 100 Mbps suprisingly
Chuck,
Now playing showed the following:
- Converting (throttled)
- Video: direct stream
- Audio: direct stream
Attached please find the XML output.
In reading on the WebOS client side it seems we got some updates to help Direct Play of more content types:
- webOS: Improved 4K video playback for H.264, HEVC, and VP9 video codecs within any file which supports these video codecs.
- webOS: Direct play MKV files with H.264, HEVC, VC1, VP9, MPEG4 video and AAC, MP3, VORBIS, DTS, or AC3 audio. Only available on webOS >= 3.0.
Thanks,
Steve
Steve,
The info you show:
Video: Direct Stream
Audio: Direct Stream
The the key, “Converting” applies to the file container and its contents.
Your file is MKV and contains several audio language tracks. PMS will remux this (send only what’s wanted).
It is also possible, albeit unlikely, your TV does not accept MKV natively but the additional language filtering will trigger ‘Converting’.
You are not seeing Transcoding so this is a Remux only operation. A common tool mkvmerge does this same operation staticly.
Regarding the stuttering, two conditions are possible.
- The remux task itself, coupled with other activity is burdening the CPU ( unlikely but possible at this data rate)
- The TV’s connection to the server is not fast enough to keep up with the data demands.
The data demands are:
- 70.874 Mbps average video bitrate. This means you will experience peaks well over 100 Mpbs. Their duration cannot be predicted. If the film has a lot of CGI or a lot of rapidly and completely changing scenes, both necessitating large blocks of data per frame, the buffer in the TV will be drained because the network inbound can’t keep up.
- The math behind the networking demand:
70.874 Mbps video + 0.768 Mbps audio = 71.642 Mpbs average.
Add approx 3% Plex server-app communications protocol overhead => 73.791 Mbps
Add approx 4% (conservative) of TCP => 73.622 Mbps
Add 5% overhead (conservative) of IP => 77.301 Mbps
This is based on the average data rate demands.
Typical sustained performance of TCP/IP is 80-85% of rated spec. Meaning you’ll get 80-85 sustained Mbps from a 100 Mbps connection.
See how close you are to the edge?
One set of frames will make it buffer.
This is of course, all moot if the TV is actually running gigabit and wired.
If WiFi, even if AC, still requires verification of what the TV can receive (Speedtest)
Chuck,
Ran some speed tests and wired ethernet is a little slower than Wifi. On wired I was getting 65 U/D. On Wifi I was getting 80 U and 60 D. As you mention this is prolly not going to cut it given what I need.
I am going to try MKVMerge. I would like to strip out the unneeded audio channels and subtitles. I want to see if that helps the situation. I have no idea how I am going to play 4K content like this if I cannot get it to the TV properly.
Since you have the XML is there a format that I should be looking to get this content into, so that it will be handled via Direct Play? I have Handbrake installed and can do it that way.
Thanks,
Steve
That’s the kicker with full rips like that; the infrastructure must have roughly 2x the average bandwidth for it to be viable.
That 65 U/D. Is your main internet faster than 65? If so, you’ve found the bottleneck.
Is the weak link from modem/router -> Wifi? Wifi -> TV?
If you’re running with a true 802.11ac connection, you’ll have near gigabit to a laptop on that same wifi if the download wire can feed it.
Use another machine as your benchmark.
Ohh its definitely the TV that has the shortcoming. My Windows PC gets 480 U and 600 D. I have Verizon FIOS gigabit service here and love love love it. Now if I can only swap out the ethernet port on the TV for a gig port.
Wait…I might be able to do that but will require additional testing. I have a USB 3 dongle that has a gig ethernet port. While it might not pull gig I am betting it pulls better than 65 U/D. Might try that.
In the meantime I just ran MKVMerge on the video file, stripped out all the crap audio and subtitles and gained back almost 10 gig on the file size. I am going to run it again and see how the TV interprets what is being thrown at it. More to come shortly!
Ok we are still buffering but it is now Direct Play and not Direct Stream. This means the TV cannot keep up with the stream. I am now going to try a USB 3 gig ethernet dongle on the TV and am hoping it is recognized. Stay tuned!
So the dongle is sort of seen by WebOS but not really. I have shot an email off to LG tech support to inquire if there are any dongles that would work. In the meantime I am going to keep fooling around. I have a Minix U9H, which should be able to handle 4K content without breaking a sweat. If I have to go down this path so be it but it would have been nice to handle everything natively on the TV.
One step at a time…
Looks like I am going down the Minix path. It has a gigabit ethernet port, so that should be ok. It can handle all the various HDMI audio sources, and I added a ViewHD HDMI 3x1 switch. It will take in the HDMI connection from my Minix, connect HDMI ARC back to the TV, and output optical to my Sonos.
Doing this preserves the audio from the newer HDMI ARC sources!
can’t help you there steve. too much hardware to keep track of.
Minix, the OS, isn’t supported. just be advised
Minix is just Android…that is not supported?
Wait a sec…I am not trying to run a PMS on it…I am just trying to run a standard Android player. The device supports Google Play, so the player is coming from that and it would not load if it were not supported on the Minix.
The funny part is when I try to stream content to it from the Synology PMS I just get the circle and nothing else. When I look at Now Playing there is nothing there, so it sounds like the PMS is not seeing the call or the call is not getting to the PMS.
Is there a log on the PMS that would tell me if it is indeed seeing the player ask for a movie?
WHOOOPS! My mistake. I’m sorry.
Android or PMP-embedded works great too. PMP is LibreElec based with PMP included. Drop it on a NUC and you’re home free. All the codecs are on-board. To PMS, it’s 100% DirectPlay. It’s a popular solution with the Ninjas. Also, for those wanting Apple, ATV 4K + Infuse player link to the server. Done and Done 
@ChuckPA said:
WHOOOPS! My mistake. I’m sorry.
Android or PMP-embedded works great too. PMP is LibreElec based with PMP included. Drop it on a NUC and you’re home free. All the codecs are on-board. To PMS, it’s 100% DirectPlay. It’s a popular solution with the Ninjas. Also, for those wanting Apple, ATV 4K + Infuse player link to the server. Done and Done 
Sometimes you have to take a step back in order to go forward…
I reset my Minix streaming box to factory settings and installed the Plex Android player app. Fired up Dunkirk in all its HDR splendor and what do you know…it ran! Even with audio transcoding on the fly it was smooth. I am a very happy camper right now.
I am running a transcode operation on my PC, to take the Dunkirk 4K MKV and move it to a 4K MP4, while changing the audio from DTS to AC3. I want to see if that will mean a full direct play from the PMS. Before I do that I am going to take some benchmarks of the PMS hit on the NAS with the original file and then again with the transcoded file. Will be interesting to understand that.
Getting there. I am feeling empowered! Thanks for all the help Chuck!
Steve
PS - I threw out HandBrake and opted for WinX HD. Simpler to use and it actually works. I was having issues with HandBrake.
