Thanks for the insight, @cayars! Really appreciate it and am learning a ton.
There has been some GREAT info here to date! Thank you to all who have commented. As more of a hardware person myself, the info so far has offered great insight to what is ‘under the hood’, so to speak. I see now that it is not a ‘quick fix’ thing but, something that nonetheless can be fixed/or rather implemented at some point, when all of the pieces of the puzzle come together.
(Cayars) I understand this is a HUGE ask but, should you ever have the time, or be inclined to do so, a wiki on h.265, authored by you, would be of great benefit to the community overall! I believe, in the end, we are all looking to leverage our hardware for the greatest storage capability, the ability to maximize the quality of our stored video/images, have same compatible with as many of our devices as possible (and be able to share), without having the need for a PhD in computer sciences 
to achieve it.
Again, thanks to everyone to date for contributing! Hopefully we can keep this thread alive long enough to answer as many of the communities questions about h.265 as possible. Happy Memorial Day everyone! And let us not forget those men and women we are memorializing this Monday!!!
@cayars said:
Both MKV and MP4 can contain the same audio and video codecs we commonly see and use with Plex.
I’d like to throw in that, contrary to MP4, MKV can contain vastly more different video, audio and subtitle formats than MP4 supports.
With MP4 you cannot embed OGG or FLAC audio, no PGS or VOBSUB subtitles, no DIVX video.
MKV can hold all that, even at the same time within the same file if need be.
X265 could be the future compared to x264, for sub-HD/mHD files, but not for proper 1080p rips. Not sure about 4K since I don’t use that, but I would assume it would be the same as HD. The problem with x265 is that it gives you fairly good quality at tiny file sizes, but it’s not magic. There’s lots of pixelation and artifacts during movement and/or less bright scenes, and in order to eliminate them you need to raise the bitrate, which would drastically increase the file size, thereby negating the advantages of the format. It takes far longer to render and strains lower-end machines, so upping the bitrate is pointless.
@OttoKerner said:
@cayars said:
Both MKV and MP4 can contain the same audio and video codecs we commonly see and use with Plex.I’d like to throw in that, contrary to MP4, MKV can contain vastly more different video, audio and subtitle formats than MP4 supports.
With MP4 you cannot embed OGG or FLAC audio, no PGS or VOBSUB subtitles, no DIVX video.
MKV can hold all that, even at the same time within the same file if need be.
With the exception of OGG I’d sort of agree with this. OGG itself is a container so neither MP4 or MKV will hold it. 
I said I’d sort of agree because you can do much of this BUT that doesn’t mean the player will recognize it. That is the pro and the con of MP4. It is more limiting in what it can hold (by spec) but at the same time if you don’t try and do goofy things with the files (like I do playing as I’ll show below) then you can pretty much be assured the player will play the file back correctly. Can’t say that about MKV files. Player A might support some of the different video codecs and some of the audio codecs but not everything contained in the MKV. Same with subtitles. Just because the tracks are in the MKV doesn’t mean the player will support them. Player B might support VOBSUB but player A does not.
Here are a few example of what can’t be done. (wink, wink) LOL
Here’s MediaInfo output of an MP4 with Divx encoding:
General
Complete name : Z:\Video\Avatar\1080Divx.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom (isom/iso2/mp41)
File size : 163 MiB
Duration : 10 min 8 s
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 2 244 kb/s
Writing application : Lavf57.72.100
Video
ID : 1
Format : MPEG-4 Visual
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, QPel : No
Format settings, GMC : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix : Default (H.263)
Codec ID : 20
Duration : 10 min 8 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 2 053 kb/s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 406 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.234
Stream size : 149 MiB (91%)
Title : Video
Writing library : DivX 2682
Here’s the now playing screen when playing back the file
Here’s an MP4 with FLAC audio:
General
Complete name : \Plex\f\TestLib\Dune Alt Edition Redux TRAILER [flac].mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size : 91.9 MiB
Duration : 4 min 47 s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 2 681 kb/s
Writing application : Lavf57.72.100
Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 5 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 4 min 47 s
Bit rate : 2 013 kb/s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Minimum frame rate : 23.564 FPS
Maximum frame rate : 24.390 FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.243
Stream size : 69.1 MiB (75%)
Writing library : x264 core 128 r2216 198a7ea
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=10 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=24 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=100 / keyint_min=10 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=2013 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=20000 / vbv_bufsize=25000 / nal_hrd=none / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Audio
ID : 2
Format : fLaC
Codec ID : fLaC
Duration : 4 min 47 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 662 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 22.7 MiB (25%)
Default : Yes
Alternate group : 1
Play fine in Plex as well.
Same with subtitles. Many players will use the codecs if they can regardless of if it’s in the official MP4 spec. Typically if the player supports the codec in MKV it will in MP4 as well.
What does any of this mean? Well honestly MP4 is more versatile then people give it credit for BUT just like MKV files it’s an experimentation because you have no way of knowing without testing if the player will support it or not. So in the case of flac audio if a player doesn’t support it then it won’t play regardless of container. However Plex will transcode it for you. Same with the video codecs.
So while I just showed a couple of example that push MP4 containers past what many people think they can do I will be the first to say it’s not a good idea. MP4 when used correctly has a set of known codecs it will support and you can usually bank on the fact that players will play the files correctly.
I can direct play h265 on my Win10 app using a nvidia 965 card. However my work laptop that has a built in Intel video card can’t direct play it using the Win10 app.
My brother has a Samsung TV that can direct play h265. For a TV app, I’m shocked.
Samsung TVs can do a lot of things that other TVs struggle with or can’t do. As an example play MVC 3D based content.
I’ve been transcoding to HEVC almost exclusively for about 18 months now. I have ~300 movies encoded with it. I don’t have any remote users, and local streaming is done with a mix of Roku 4s and Ultras that support HEVC. I have come to prefer HEVC over H264 not only for the storage savings, but also for the video quality. Some people insist that HEVC results in a noticeable loss of fine detail and sharpness when compared to H264, but I don’t agree. I’ve come to believe that people have become so accustomed to the subtle jaggies/blocking that is prevalent in H264 that they perceive their absence as a loss in quality. HEVC has a more natural look to it due to the lack of blocking…but it does have its own issues, particularly banding in dark scenes and some landscape views.
The CPU overhead is a beast. I use the “Slow” X265 preset, which results in 6-7 FPS in Handbrake on 1080p material. When server transcoding is required for clients, it’s also a demanding process due to the software decoding. My I5-3570S can barely handle 2 1080p simultaneous transcodes.
I can record TV shows with my HDHomeRun Extend but they record in h264 format. So I just find the h265 version on torrent websites to add to my Plex catalog. I figure if I can legally record it, then I can legally download it. It saves me processing power converting h264 to h265. Most of my TV show catalog is h265 1080p 5.1 surround.
My movies though I try to keep in h264 format. Only because those tend to get watched more than once and it puts less of a strain on my CPU that way. TV shows get watched one time by the user and that’s normally it. Movies get multiple views. Like for example Moana. I think my remote users have watched it over 50 times so far. Lots of kids wanting to see it.
Would you guys mind sharing what version of x.265 and profile of x.265 most of you are using (there seems to be a lot of choices)?
You will get a bunch of different answers to this from different people. There is no right or wrong answer. What you would really want to do is create a MP4 and MKV test version both with h.265 and try to direct play it on all devices you own. You should then be able to decide if one is container is better than the other.
If both play equally well on your devices then it’s a toss up. In that case it’s up to you. Maybe do something like use MP4 for all your h.264 and use MKV for all your h.265??? In the wild you will most likely find h.265 in MKV much more often than in MP4.
PS Just noticed you said profile and I answered about containers. Not sure if that was what you really were asking but I now think it wasn’t so just ignore this post.
cayars,
Thanks for the input. I see you mentioned containers so let’s run with that for a moment, without getting too far off topic though.
I’d like to ask for a quick show of hands r/t which ripper most are using and why, if you care to share.
Then what container and why, if you care to share. (If you know and want to mention what x.265 version and profile, please do).
Thanks again to everyone that has contributed to this thread!
Goofed… links in next post !!!
Opps! Sorry all… goofed on the Poll!!!
Here are the correct links…
Ripper: Link Deleted
Container: Link Deleted
X.264/x.265: Link Deleted
Your poll is kind of messed up. Handbrake isn’t a ripper. It’ an encoder. DVDFab is both. A Popular ripper many people use is MakeMKV.
I myself would have a hard time answering any of those questions since it depends. Here’s an example of my process which will explain.
I will take a DVD or BluRay disk and make a personal archive copy using MakeMKV. MakeMKV will allow me to select only the main movie or all the trailers and other features. I normally only select the largest which is the movie. I can then select which languages I want to keep for both audio and subtitiles. I click process and end up with an MKV file that has only the tracks I selected in it. It’s a “pure” rip with no transcoding it it at this point. It will have the same video codec as the source material.
If it’s 1080 or less in resolution I will run this through the scripts I have in my Sig which is linked in my sig. This will give me an MP4 file with h.264 video codec and a 2 channel AAC audio track a long with any multi-channel audio I selected that are English. It will give me an external SRT subtitle as well. This gives me a file that will direct play on any system that doesn’t have a bitrate limitation.
I follow the same procedure as above for other file formats as well such as DivX, AVI, Flash, Mpeg2, etc. I can get these different formats from my Smartphone, DVR or Camcorder as examples.
Now if the disc is a 3D MVC (not SBS or TAB) I’ll use MakeMKV as usual but then will use tsMuxeR to remux this file into a M2TS extension that my Samsung TV and Orca’s Plex client love. This give me full screen 3D and not half resoltuion 3D that SBS or TAB files provide.
Now if the content is 4K it will most likely be using h.265 codec which is the codec of choice by many for 4K material. In this case I will leave it as h.265 but will still add a 2 channel audio channel as I do with all my files keeping only English audio and subtitles while discarding the others. This file will end up as h.265 in an MKV container. If I already have a 1080p version of this file I’m done otherwise I’ll run it through the same procedure as above to also end up with a 1080p, h.264 version of the file.
I share 1080p and lower resolutions files with everyone but restrict 3D SBS/TAB, MVC (m2ts) and 4K libraries to only people who can direct play them and have suitable hardware.
So I have 3 file formats I use and by just looking at the file extension I can tell you exactly what is in the file (at least what video codec).
PS I ONLY use ffmpeg for any encoding work and won’t touch Handbrake or DVDFab with a 10 foot pole!
Carlo
I think a central wiki page for all that knowledge and experience on encoding, ripping, formats, etc. would be an amazing idea. As of now, @cayars sprinkles his wealth of knowledge in various different threads, which are not consolidated nor pinned, and so knowledge gets lost in threads that move to page 2, and then 3, 4, 5… replaced by newer threads on page 1 - and so @cayars has to repeat himself several times. The forum system is not the best way to collect knowledge, wikis are far better suited for this.
I also think it’s great that we have people in the forums with great experience, and not just knowledge, which is a difference. You know, experience on how best to encode media is different from knowing what encoding methods there are.
aeonx (cayars),
Your comments about a wiki are what I was shooting for, you just refined my thought and put a label on it for me, thanks for that!
Ok, so I deleted the links to the polls. Any thoughts on how to cobble the info necessary to create an ongoing wiki?
Nubes, such as myself, would no doubt find it to be a font of information and may just cut down on the number of posts to the forum.
I am all for helping to create it, to the capacity to which I am able. Sadly though, based on the most recent readings and misunderstanding of the topic, I don’t know I can do anything other than cheerlead
Again, I am for the wiki, just let me know if I can help in any fashion.
Jeff
@Plexacardia Here is a nice introduction on how to create a wiki: http://www.wikihow.com/Start-a-Wiki
@aeonx said:
I think a central wiki page for all that knowledge and experience on encoding, ripping, formats, etc. would be an amazing idea. As of now, @cayars sprinkles his wealth of knowledge in various different threads, which are not consolidated nor pinned, and so knowledge gets lost in threads that move to page 2, and then 3, 4, 5… replaced by newer threads on page 1 - and so @cayars has to repeat himself several times. The forum system is not the best way to collect knowledge, wikis are far better suited for this.
I agree and so do many of the other Ninjas. They have collectively been talking about doing something like this. It’s already planned out but now we need to write the mini articles/posts. I will surely participate in doing that.
The problem with a topic such as this is that it’s a “delicate” subject matter. If you look at the post I just made I choose some of my words carefully at times. I don’t want to advocate doing something that may not be legal to do in certain parts of the world. So that is something that has to be carefully weighed/vetted for anything “official” in nature.
Also keep in mind this is just how I personally do this and I have my own bias as to container use that other Ninja’s or Power Users might disagree with for their own valid reasons. Ask 5 Ninjas how to do something like this and there is a good chance you’ll get at least 3 different schools of thought on the subject all very valid. If we can combine that knowledge then we will really have something.
On a separate note I’ve thought of doing a personal wiki style site for things related to Plex and media in general. A lot of the information is already buried in my “cayars thread”.
Edit: I’ve since learned there is already a central resource in the works.
