I’m sure this question has come up before but since I couldn’t find a solution I’m asking again. I purchased SiliconDust HDPrime using the PlexPass deal recently, I have the INFINITV tuner which is working fine with my Windows Media Center and it can record HBO and I can view the recording on the device I recorded due to DRM.
The problem is that when I scan channels , I see the EPG is stating that HBO is “Protected Channel” but I cannot select this protected channel on PLEX DVR. I thought the restriction for DRM content was only for recording and not for viewing it.
How do I check the box to view “Live TV” for HBO ?
If WMC can show me the live TV for HBO - Why can’t Plex ?
This is a DRM issue. Plex does not have the protected paths for DRM(yet?) Not sure if they are even planning on DRM.
Only WMC can do this right now with the exception of silicondust’s Homerun native app but this has certain requirements ie: Windows 10 with certain video cards and certain updates.
There are no other solutions for DRM protected paths at this time.
I believe it is a Silicon Dust “interpretation”issue, not necessarily a Plex issue. I’m a TiVo user, and also used to have Comcast. (FiOS now). HBO and other Premiums on Comcast have the CCI byte set to “Copy Once”…so that translates to only allowing recording to the TiVo, and you cannot transfer the recording off of the TiVo you recorded it on. However, that has never affected Live-TV or doing an actual recording. (I’ve consistently recorded many HBO shows to "binge watch”over the years and never had a single issue.). FiOS has HBO and Cinemax (as well as Fox channels like Fox News, FX, and National Geographic) set the same way with CCI byte set to “Copy Once”. I can still even stream these (and all channels) to my TiVo Mini…which basically is doing the same thing HDHomeRun is doing to a client app. What is different with the Silicon Dust HDHomeRun is that it will not let you even do Live-TV if a channel is CCI Byte “Copy Once”. So, you have to ask, why can TiVo do it and HDHomeRun cannot? I believe it is Silicon Dust’s "conservative”interpretation (or ignorance) of the rules. But there is no question that if TiVo can stream those same channels for live viewing to a TIVo Mini, there should be no reason that Silicon Dust can’t make the HDHomeRun and Client apps work the same way. We could perhaps have a debate about recordings, but there is no reason that Live-TV viewing should not be possible, as long as the CableCARD is authorized and can decrypt the channel. If TiVo is allowed to stream all channels to a TiVo Mini, then HDHomeRun should be able to do the same to a Client App like Plex, or at minimum to their own Client App.
I’ve made another post elsewhere that this effort for Plex & Television integration is premised on being able to cord-cut and cord-slim with a cost-effective alternative to Retail DVRs like TiVo. But it can only be successful if everybody is on an even playing field, and the Content Protection rules work the same way for everybody. If it is a case of unfair approvals out of CableLabs, then lawyers need to get involved. But I suspect it is simply that Silicon Dust is ignorant or afraid of making their box work like TiVo. Not sure the folks working on this considered this a priority for the product anyway, so that may also be a factor. Unfortunately, it is really a fundamental, major issue that needs to be addressed (IMHO) if they ever hope to get out of "Science Project”stage and offer a "real”product with mass appeal. The idea is to make "Plex”the center of your entertainment eco-system…to do that, it must be Easy to setup, and fully functional against the devices you are trying to replace. RIght now that is definitely not the case, and will never be the case if everybody doesn’t work out the Content Protection enforcement policies with consistency. I see no reason anybody would replace their TiVo STB with this solution at this time, and it will never happen if folks like Silicon Dust and Plex don’t get their crap together in this regard. It is a fundamental gating issue to success. (IMHO, of course!). IF they DO fix this, I can see Plex + HDHomeRun being an AWESOME replacement for TiVo… It ain’t there yet…and I’m skeptical it ever will be, as I don’t get the feeling that the Product Managers at either company recognize the fundamental gating nature of the issue for MOST consumers. What will everybody do when the Broadcasters start doing similar on ATSC stuff? Think they won’t? As more and more folks start figuring out they can get "Free” Digital TV and a perfect picture with a cheap antenna, it’s only a matter of time before Content Protection gets put in place there as well.
Nah…I just have over 16 years experience working my day-job in this space on both Service Provider and Consumer Electronics side. Because of this, I also have in-depth experience knowing the “road-blocks” the content providers are consistently attempting in an effort to protect their business model. (This is why Apple itself has not really been able to “breakthrough”). If the Content Providers had their way, we all would be paying a fee each and every time we view their content, regardless of platform…but they know, (at this point), that that paradigm will never fly, and so they have to be sneaky and attempt a more “progressive” approach… In the meantime, you have OTT folks like Plex, Apple, Roku, etc., bombarding the market with a completely different mindset…which is a very good thing. But make no mistake, the Content Guys and Service Providers will do everything they can to stop OTT 3rd party inroads everywhere and anywhere they can.
@barryguzik I have been working in this area as well for 16 years. You are extremely over simplifying it. The key her is content protection, and creating a protected path for the content. The protected path is the hard part especially when you start talking about plex remote streaming. Local playback is fairly simple in a device that also attaches to the display. Much harder when you start talking to remote devices. Windows MCE extenders never actually played content on remote extenders. The content was played on the local device and a rdp stream was used to send the content securely to a remote extender. I am note sure how tivo does it but i wouldn’t be surprised if it was something similar.
For plex to work with protected content plex would need to created those protected paths. Silicon Dust has nothing to do with it. Part of those protected paths would be to implement DRM within plex and not allow the server to ever let the content to be put on remote systems at any time.
I actually see this as being a driver for the success of steaming boxes like roku/shield TV and Apple TV. Users will realize a unified search and streaming apps can totally replace what we see today as tv. My daughter actually got confused the first time streamed live tv to her instead of just netflix or Amazon prime. She was annoyed with the fact her show had breaks in it for commercials and that she had to wait for the next episode.
We simply need to make a distinction between the SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime CableCard tuner and the currently in development HDHomeRun DVR software. Clearly these are two separate and distinctly different things regardless of the fact that they both come from the same company.
The HDHomeRun Prime CableCard tuner is every bit as compliant with Cable Labs requirements and certifications as a TiVo. So too are other CableCard tuners from the likes of Ceton, Hauppauge and others. They wouldn’t be on sale and in the market if they weren’t.
Simply put Microsoft Media Center (most current version) can record and play “Copy Once” media using an HDHomeRun Prime without issue as well as other CableCard tuners. Both software and hardware must be compliant as well as a complete protected path being maintained.
The SiliconDust HDHomeRun DVR software is in an unfinished state. It’s unclear to me if they have moved to a release candidate yet but clearly the software is in a prototypical early state rather then being in a gold state. There is lots of work to be done on it and it’s already been in development for what seems like years. This is where the TiVo like functionality and Cabl Labs compliance starts to breakdown but to be fare it’s probably still in beta. They will eventually get there.
I’m a little concerned with how Plex DVR decides to handle premium channels like HBO though. If they simply automatically block access to HBO (for example) in Plex DVR assuming CableCard only access then it would make it next to impossible to use something like a Hauppauge HD PVR with Plex DVR.
I don’t expect to see Plex DVR start to support DRM channels anytime soon. Even if it were in development it could be years before we could benefit from it in any way given SiliconDust’s efforts as a model. I also suspect it’s not even in development anyway,…
@mavrrick Yep! I’ve been thinking about a solution to this as well. Similar to what you said, implementing the power of devices like the Shield and XB1, record the stream in the native format from the cable provider, MPEG2 (MP4 in some Comcast areas), using one of the three approved DRM schemes approved by CableLabs (Microsoft PlayReady, RealNetworks Helix, or DTCP-IP).
Never allow it to be transcoded and only sent to LAN devices that have HDCP and can honor the DRM. From what I understand, this would EXCLUDE (according to the developer of the Channels application) Apple TV… Which surprised the hell out of me! I’m sure Apple could easily fix this through a simple software update.
That reminds me of the “Bag of Hurt” comment with respect to Blu-Ray. Really though, I think Apple was questioning what was in it for them? If they support Blu-Ray and it’s aggressive protection schemes (which would be a lot of work to establish and maintain) it would only erode sales / rentals of Media from their Apple Store / iTunes.
Sure the end customers might want the support but does Apple? Probably not,…
The approach plex should take to premium like channels is to work with them to integrate into channels in plex.
This whole discussion is really about a technology that at best is stagnant and worst on a slow way out. The whole idea of cable card was because of a FCC mandate made several years ago for seperable security. That requirement in some ways has been removed over the last few years. It is Largely due to the rise of streaming services and devices. I don’t even need a cable box for the company I work for. With all of the options we have for streaming the cable box is pretty much just for a prettier guide and DVR functionality. DVR is also limited need depending on if the on-demand options are sufficient for your use case. Most of us here though I suspect archive shows longer then what is setup on-demand.
I know in my case between the channels I get with the HD Homerun prime and what I can stream via netflix/Amazon and all the streaming apps for premium services I miss nothing. The unified search in android TV also makes it easy to access content on any service from one location.
For cable users with premium channels, many would be well served with plug-ins or “channels” app that would allow streaming. Just enter your cable credentials and start streaming with Plex as a front-end to switch between HBOGo / HBO Now and ShowtimeAnytime. Easy and simple.
Something like a PlayOn Plug-in or “Channel” in Plex could serve the same purpose.
Still the triditional DVR has a lot of life in it and so too does Cable even if it is an industry in decline.
From: Support support@silicondust.com
Date: Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Unable to play channel - HBO/Comcast [#76456]
Dear Sagar,
Live DRM channel viewing is currently supported in the HDHomeRun app for Windows 10 and Xbox One. Support for Android is in development, as is recording through the HDHomeRun DVR. macOS support would require Apple to implement better content security features in the OS and is thus unlikely.
Silicondust Support
So it appears that I’m out of luck while using the MAC OSX SiliconDust App or Android App or Plex. I don’t have Windows 10 or XBox One and I would hate to keep switching TV source to WIndows7 PC and use the WMC with another remote.
IMHO, Even though I still haven’t lost hope - DVR technology is on it’s way out, I’ve invested close to $450 when I got the InfiniTV4 around 7 years back, It worked fine with WMC until now except the company stopped investing in the product line and gave zero @#$%@ to early supporters, PlexPass introduced support for DVR but it fails to list the limitations when it comes to watching DRM content live. You are better off getting just a OTA tuner. Plex offered 30% off for purchase of SD HomeRun Prime, so I invested some more money to get the Prime HD knowing that Plex would probably never support Ceton Tuners (The experience with this company has been less than stellar), I believe that Plex will try to at-least get the “Live TV” for DRM content working.
But the future seems to belong to PS Vue/Hulu Live/DirectTV Now/Sling.
@sagardhanrale@gmail.com said:
So just to close the loop on this dreaded issue -
From: Support support@silicondust.com
Date: Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Unable to play channel - HBO/Comcast [#76456]
Dear Sagar,
Live DRM channel viewing is currently supported in the HDHomeRun app for Windows 10 and Xbox One. Support for Android is in development, as is recording through the HDHomeRun DVR. macOS support would require Apple to implement better content security features in the OS and is thus unlikely.
Silicondust Support
So it appears that I’m out of luck while using the MAC OSX SiliconDust App or Android App or Plex. I don’t have Windows 10 or XBox One and I would hate to keep switching TV source to WIndows7 PC and use the WMC with another remote.
IMHO, Even though I still haven’t lost hope - DVR technology is on it’s way out, I’ve invested close to $450 when I got the InfiniTV4 around 7 years back, It worked fine with WMC until now except the company stopped investing in the product line and gave zero @#$%@ to early supporters, PlexPass introduced support for DVR but it fails to list the limitations when it comes to watching DRM content live. You are better off getting just a OTA tuner. Plex offered 30% off for purchase of SD HomeRun Prime, so I invested some more money to get the Prime HD knowing that Plex would probably never support Ceton Tuners (The experience with this company has been less than stellar), I believe that Plex will try to at-least get the “Live TV” for DRM content working.
But the future seems to belong to PS Vue/Hulu Live/DirectTV Now/Sling.
I disagree with most of what was said above.
Windows Media Center is something of a gold standard IMO. Every other DVR implementation is scrambling within the power vacuum that the cessation of Microsoft Media Center support in Windows 10 has created. No such DVR solution is prepared with the same level of prowess.
Having said that, CableCard was always intended to be restrictive so nothing new there. Its true that cable subscriptions are in decline but this is industry self inflicted as well as economically driven. There are other reasons as well.
Having said that, I receive something like ~480 channels with my cable subscription. If you remove PPV channels and premium channels I still get something on the order of 90% of all channels available in Plex (and other DVR solutions).
A combination of NextPVR, cablecard and Hauppauge products like the HD PVR and Colossus line will allow for HD recordings of up to basically 100% of the channels including premium without DRM restrictions.
So no I don’t necessarily believe people are better off with ATSC unless that is all they want. There are indeed ways to take full advantage of the channels you subscribe to.
