Server Version#: 1.28.2.6151
Player Version#: Plexamp 4.3.0
OS: iOS 15.6.1 (iPhone 12 Mini)
Device: Marantz PM7000N
Hello everyone!
I have recently purchased a beautiful Marantz PM7000N amp which has all the latest connectivity features. I’m happy to say that I’ve taken the opportunity to subscribe to Tidal to finally enjoy lossless sound, and I’ve obviously taken it over Plex ^^. However, I face a rather annoying problem. I have my entire library on Plexamp on my iPhone 12 Mini (iOS 15.6.1). I love this application and I have no problems with bluetooth (headphones or connection to the Marantz amp). On the other hand, in Airplay (Wifi), I have a lot of micro-cuts throughout the playback of the song, as if I had regular bitrate drops. I overloaded my Wifi installation. I’ve tested several alternative configurations (extending the wifi right next to the amp and phone, connecting the amp to the router via ethernet, etc.), with no results. But above all, desperate, I made a last attempt using the Tidal application directly, and there, no issues! Everything works perfectly, whatever the network configuration used. Also note that another symptom is a latency of more or less 2 seconds between an action performed on Plexamp (change song, pause, etc.) and its completion. This leads me to believe that the problem comes from an incompatibility between Airplay, Plexamp, and perhaps my Marantz. In order to complete the diagnosis, I performed the same tests on my Mac, and Plexamp also produces cuts and a large latency unfortunately. Of course I could be satisfied with bluetooth, but, in addition to the very practical aspect of Airplay, bluetooth unfortunately does not allow Lossless listening and compresses everything by default. So my subscription to Tidal loses some of its interest…
Also, if anyone has noticed this type of problem, and has an idea of how to get around it, I’m really interested!
Thanks in advance for your help!
Have a nice evening!
if I’m not mistaken, the Plexamp app supports Airplay, but not Airplay 2 … Airplay 2 is better in terms of buffering (fewer dropouts), latency (no 2 second delays), and phone battery drain, but last I checked there are many audio apps that don’t support Airplay 2 (Tidal is one app that does)
another [better ] option is to use a headless raspberry pi (or similar) running Plexamp, with audio out or SPDIF HAT hooked up to your amp, and then control it with your Plexamp phone app (no need to keep all your music on your phone for this purpose)
Ahah! This might be an explaination! Good idea for the RPi! I already have my Plex server on my home NAS so I’ll check if this could work as the amp can play songs from the NAS directly. Otherwise I’ll try your solution with the DAC. It’s just too bad that a so well connected amp would finally need a RPi and a DAC to work . But I have a spare RPi4 to test if needed. I just need the DAC (and to check how to install and control Plexamp on a headless system ^^).
That’s an excellent installer, which does a bit more than the usual README install.
As far as your playback issues with Airplay2, it’s mediocre, and the delay is untenable.
It’s common to use a Pi or buy a pre-made streaming box like a USB Chromecast.
HiFiBerry makes a good DAC for the Pi that will do 32/192.
Good luck!
agree, it’s preferable to make use of your nice new gear as much as possible
since you’re lucky enough to already have a pi4 (good luck buying one now), you could start by using its built-in headphone/line output into your amp, and then add an inexpensive SPDIF HAT (once you find one) to feed your amp’s internal DAC
Hey all! Thanks a LOT for all your suggestions! @tgp-2 Yes I’m a lucky one! Actually, I ordered it nearly 1 year ago and it arrived in July . But I confess that’s a nightmare to get one . That’s a pity because I try to make my town offering RPi setups for the secondary school students so they can learn how to code, but with these delays, the project is coming to an end
And I’ll see if I can find some DAC. By the way, do you have an idea about the differences that exist between the different HifiBerry DACs? Appart from the output connectivity of course ^^
@nibbles Thanks! I found this Github too yesterday and I was planning to test it out this weekend. Do you already have some experience on it? Great to know that it works smoothly
@pjv Very nice! I could try that indeed! I think the output power from the amp is not enough to power the Pi, but I’ll try this! Do you think that the USB connection will be of good quality enough to transfer lossless music? Or would it be better to use a proper DAC? I guess that the Marantz has an internal DAC?
Thank you all very very much. for your help! I love the Plex community
Have a nice day! I’ll keep you updated!
You shouldn’t use the Marantz to power the pi. Power the pi with the little mini-usb power input and whatever 5V power supply you have for it. The Marantz has a USB-A input on it and you can connect to that with a standard USB-A cable from the pi. Yes, the Marantz has an internal DAC (hence the digital inputs). Whether it would be better to use an external DAC is something that only your ears can tell you.
I think the USB-A input on the back of your amp is only for external USB storage, it’s not a USB DAC input (so I don’t think you can go USB out from the Pi) … that’s why I was thinking a SPDIF HAT on the Pi might work … relatively inexpensive, and you’ll still be using your amp’s internal DAC
Yes I used the GitHub installer by @odinb1 I think is his handle here. It works great and helps people remember useful tasks like setting your hostname.
I’ve also used a few different HiFiBerrys, including the recent Digi2 & DAC2. There’s no bad choice if your budget is frugal. There was an short time at the beginning of this year when RPi changed their boards without warning that broke a small number of Digi2 Pros, but that’s been solved with the latest Digi2 version I bought at Chicago Dist.
Hi!
I just use the Digi+ with my Marantz (AV7705)!
It comes in at about $15 and is a Hifiberry clone. It works with the Pi4 even if not stated on the web, since that is what I use it with! The DA is done in the Marantz pre-Amp with the Digi+.
Also, make sure you get a good quality high amp PSU, or you might experience humming etc.
See the github wiki for more info.
And if my budget is not frugal, do you have a model you advice me? After spending more than a 1000€ for an amp, I can buy a good DAC
@odinb1 Thanks! That’s a good option too If you tested it and it’s a good one, I may go for it then About the power supply, I have the official USB-C one from the Pi fondation
You seem to be correct @tgp-2. Unlike the PM7005 which exposes a DAC input via USB, it looks like the PM7000N can only treat devices plugged into its USB port as storage. Sorry for the bad advice above, @EgonHeuson.
some initial setup notes, if you’re starting with the headphone output from the pi (while you’re in the process of looking for a DAC or SPDIF HAT) …
plexamp does not touch the system/alsa mixer settings for the selected output device … so it’s a good idea to run alsamixer to check and set any gain setting there
the alsa mixer settings for the headphone output allow for > unity gain (I think max setting corresponds to +4dB gain) … max alsamixer gain combined with plexamp defaults (which include another +4dB of preamp gain) can lead to distorted output on this specific device … so advise that you use alsamixer to set device gain to 0 or slightly below
and then in plexamp playback settings for the pi (using the web gui), you can disable loudness leveling, equalizer, and the limiter to minimize any additional audio processing (you can also set the preamp gain to 0dB just for good measure, but the preamp gain doesn’t take effect when loudness leveling is disabled)
Five years ago that would be “a loaded question” so to speak, but with the proliferation of high quality ChiFi components lately, things have changed. You can get nearly perfect sound from a $100 Topping D10s, an SMSL, or spend some more money on a Chord. You could get slightly better sound for ten times as much, but they all would have the same DAC chip. You also have the option of a HiFiBerry DAC2 HD that I’ve used which is good enough but objectively not the same quality as the others in its price range. Personally I like the way it rolls off some of the highs and has a warmer timbre than the Topping D10s, but I use headphones. My next purchase would be a Chord, but I’ve not been in the market for a $500 DAC.
A lot of money can be spent on clean power. I have a UPS that doubles as a pure sine wave conditioner, plus I use an iFi iPower X 5V 3A power supply for my rPi 4B that cost $100.
For sure! I was about to order a Hifiberry DAC Pro but I found a second hand Pifi DAC+ advised by @odinb1. If I can get it it would be great
Thank you for the advice about alsamixer. I’ll have a look at this! But I guess the easier will be to wait for the DAC to come
@nibbles Thanks very much for the advices! I’ll also have a look at the Chord. Just as far as I can understand these DACs, such as the Topping D10s are USB DACs. But I read at different places that using a i2s HAT DAC is better for the Pi than a USB one. What do you think? Also, I think my ear are not good enough (or trained enough) .
But thank you all very much for your help!
@odinb1 There are few updates that can be made to your very nice tutorial on Github. Especially as Raspberry Pi OS now doesn’t allow to use the “pi” user by default unless you configure it through the installer. And I think that from a security point of view, it would be better to advise to create another user
By the way, do you think it’s better to use a SPDIF HAT or a RCA DAC? I wondered if keeping the signal as digital until it gets to the Marantz wouldn’t it better than converting it to analog on the Pi? Any idea?
They are both perfectly good for what we are doing, but the subtle details about timing, galvanic isolation, and phase are covered on the Archimago site and in the following thread (a lot on the first page):
Your Marantz has a great AKM DAC inside it already, and so it makes sense to use a digital output from Pi to Marantz. You can send that digital signal via USB or using a HAT.
Some options for USB digital output from Pi to Marantz:
Direct USB Type-A to USB Type A cable from rPi to Marantz along with some exceptionally hard configuration of a Pi 4B to put it into Audio Gadget Mode.
Adding in a USB to Optical Audio Output adapter that appears as a sound device to the Pi and costs only $20 but took me 3 weeks and $500 of the wrong things to find. Something like the Cubilux UCO-B1 which is a miracle and takes no special configuration. I use this from a Mac Studio for optical out.
Options for HAT digital output from Pi to Marantz:
HiFiBerry or a dozen other HATs that have Optical or Digital Coax pass through. I’m currently using Coax from a Digi2 Pro because its more robust to bending.
Or you can use:
HDMI (not an option for the Marantz which lacks an input)
@EgonHeuson the wiki already addresses this as of April this year:
“SSH access on “Raspberry Pi OS”: (2022-04-04) To set up a user on first boot on headless, create a file called userconf or userconf.txt in the boot partition of the SD card. This file should contain a single line of text, consisting of username:encrypted-password – so your desired username, followed immediately by a colon, followed immediately by an encrypted representation of the password you want to use.”
For your question “By the way, do you think it’s better to use a SPDIF HAT or a RCA DAC? I wondered if keeping the signal as digital until it gets to the Marantz wouldn’t it better than converting it to analog on the Pi? Any idea?”
My preference is the HiFiBerry digital HATs, or one of the clones. As long as you get a clone with a Wolfson chip, I am not sure you will hear much difference, if any at all! The furniture in your room probably affects sound more than the DIGI-HAT at this point! Digital Coax pass through (SPDIF) is in my opinion preferred over the Optical (TOSLINK), just make sure you get a shielded RCA-cable. They can be had for under $10 on Amazon or similar, something like this TNP-cable.
] option is to use a headless raspberry pi (or similar) running Plexamp, with audio out or SPDIF HAT hooked up to your amp, and then control it with your Plexamp phone app (no need to keep all your music on your phone for this purpose)
. But I have a spare RPi4 to test if needed. I just need the DAC (and to check how to install and control Plexamp on a headless system ^^).
is all incorrect, sorry.
Actually, I ordered it nearly 1 year ago and it arrived in July 
. That’s a pity because I try to make my town offering RPi setups for the secondary school students so they can learn how to code, but with these delays, the project is coming to an end 
I just usually don’t know (yet) all these subtleties about sound quality 
