A little disappointed to hear Live TV seems to now use MKV containers, which for those of us with Apple TV mean transcoding is the only way forward. In my case, as I use a NAS as my server, I simply don’t have the necessary processing power to deal with transcoding, and I am hoping the developers allow m4v/mp4 as an option going forwards to provide compatibility.
Any thoughts on adding m4v as an option?
The HDTV stream does not broadcast MP4 so unless your tuner has build in transcode before it goes to plex, and just happens to be in the right container with the right audio for appletv your server will need to so some transcode … just a fact of life
not exactly true, the channels app is able to play tv directly from the HDHomerun to the Apple tv or ios for that matter without any intermediate server to transcode. But I am sure this goes back to the app having its on player and not using the built in player like plex has always insisted on doing.
@BRBMan That is my understanding too, therefore why I asked the question. Personally I actually think Plex is doing the right thing by using the built in player.
It’s worth pointing out also that the HomeRun Extend includes MP4 hardware acceleration, so whilst not available in the UK, that would seem a potentially easy way of easily porting out a file which can then be saved in that format with fairly little fuss.
In my case, perhaps it is time to retire my old 412+ and get a new Synology with greater processing power.
@Traveloguy said:
It’s worth pointing out also that the HomeRun Extend includes MP4 hardware acceleration, so whilst not available in the UK, that would seem a potentially easy way of easily porting out a file which can then be saved in that format with fairly little fuss.
That is great for any file that you want to save to play back later, but useless for live tv as you cannot record to and read from an .mp4 file as the same time.
HDHR Extend transcodes into H264, but not in MP4 container.
Channels app is a bad comparison, they have a single focus, with known goals.
In order for us to write our own player, we’d literally have to support every single file format under the sun, because our player is used for more than just the known DVR/Live TV formats.
Our users like things like to be able to use any codec and have it ‘just work’ and so transcoding is what we have to use for that.
With that said, once something like MrMC supports DVR/Live TV, that will natively play back all Plex recordings, so there will be 3rd party options for folks with cpu constraints on the PMS side.
So… keithah, please boil this down to what it means to a user with a low-powered NAS and an HDHR Extend.
If you use an IOS device, we are forced to transcode the stream today, regardless of what format it’s in, because of interlacing issues we’re actively working on fixing.
If you use a Android TV device, likely it will direct play fine and low powered NAS will work great.
This is a first release. Be patient, or come back in a few months when we remove the Beta tag and things settle down.
@keithah said:
In order for us to write our own player, we’d literally have to support every single file format under the sun, because our player is used for more than just the known DVR/Live TV formats.
Why? I mean, supporting multiple codec’s should be fine and the goal but why can’t the theoretical player support codecs AND transcoding. That way, ones that don’t work can transcode and ones that do don’t have to. Don’t get me wrong, transcoding is excellent, but its frustrating from a user perspective to have to literally choose worse looking UI’s or buggier devices because its the only player that would support XYZ format. Each device supports different codecs and containers, yet each device looks completely different from one another. Each device has different support levels as well it seems. Some things like Apple TV and Shield seem to get updates weekly, wear as other devices sit for months or years (xbox, roku). So without a player users options are:
I was hoping when PMP picked up the internal open source player that was a sign that Plex was thinking about the big picture on internal players with other apps. Sure it might be months or years out, but thinking about it at least. Is that not the case? We discussed this at the last roundtable as well. Has plex looked at just licensing a third party player for each device?
There’s not a 3rd party player to license, because it can’t support things like PIP in IOS, etc. Something like this doesn’t exist.
We could hack together something to work for a few formats, like Channels did, and then transcode the rest but we’d literally be in the exact same boat we are right now, except the ‘few formats’ support might be ones live tv works on, with significant (hundreds of man hours) work.
Blame your vendor for only supporting XYZ format. It’s something they limited, not Plex. Channels, VLC, Kodi, Infuse, etc are ‘hacking around’ their limitations, and at any moment, the rug could be pulled out from under them, which has happened in Kodi and VLC land several times.
Also, it makes supporting stuff like audio codecs a massive burden as well, when you do it yourself. Kodi and VLC has had to do immense amount of work themselves in this space.
Those are literally always the options for any media player, that exists. We’re lucky we have the ability to fallback to transcode. Before that, it just said ‘failed’ and nothing you can do.
Roku gets updates monthly, if not more. It’s one of our most active platforms. Xbox is active as well, and hopefully will be out soon.
Neither of them are ignored platforms, by any stretch. Anything that’s get use and we can find the people to work on them, we do.
TLDR: The more open the platform you use it, the less restrictive it is. You want to use super closed devices like Apple TV? The vendor has purposely limited it. You want to direct play as much as possible? Build a HTPC, or use a Shield, which uses Exoplayer which is open source and therefore much easier to extend and not at mercy and whim of a specific vendor.
PMP is the future, for devices that MPV run on. If your device doesn’t have MPV support, such as Roku and Apple TV, it’s impossible to even consider it as a player replacement, since thats the backend player for PMP.
@keithah said:
Blame your vendor for only supporting XYZ format. It’s something they limited, not Plex. Channels, VLC, Kodi, Infuse, etc are ‘hacking around’ their limitations, and at any moment, the rug could be pulled out from under them, which has happened in Kodi and VLC land several times.
Hacked around might be a strong word. Yes they are working around the devices limitations and yes the device might decide to stop that support at any given moment, but its also been years without them doing so. Its probably safe to assume they wont. In fact devices could decide to through away any media player at any given time but it hasn’t stopped you yet. I wasn’t trying to say some devices are ignored, although I am sure a lot of users would disagree based on the xbox and fire tv forums to say the least. And again, I love plex and love all you guys have done. I have no real complaints. I just wish transcoding was a thing of last resort when realistically its a most common. I only use the AppleTV because its an all in one device for the most part. I used the Shield for awhile but unrelated to Plex was buggy as all hell so I gave up. I can only get so many calls from family when it freezes before I break haha. I guess my point was, and yes UI is subjective but people are forced to choose functionality over design. Things like the Xbox are pretty good codec support but also use an almost unusable design for large libraries. Apple TV is beautiful but sucks at codec support. Shield seems to be a best of both worlds but like I said, Android TV is buggy as hell, or at least my two units were…
What can I say, I am picky 
. I don’t use a Roku because it looks like it was designed in 1995 (not Plex, Roku itself).
Transcoding is a thing of last resort. On my setup it’s super rare anything is ever transcoded, unless I’m watching stuff on mobile or web. Definitely not on any of my TV’s.
We want to use hardware codecs, when possible. Most don’t make it possible on anything they don’t want too. There’s many reasons why, most of them non technical.
I don’t think Plex on the Shield is buggy at all, it’s my main use case. I find the Apple TV one more frustrating, and was happy to replace it with the Shield. I personally don’t like the UI at all on it. I’ve shown so many people the hidden left sidebar panel exists. And have had to use the ‘reload’ button far too many times. Any UI with a reload button that isn’t a web app concerns me. But I understand why these things exist, and the limitations folks have had to put up with to deal with TVML/Native code esp in regards to getting things out the door.
You’re actually the only one I’ve heard say Android TV is buggy. I’ve personally turned on dozens and dozens of folks to it and they love it. My entire family has Shields these days…the calls I get are never related to stability of it.
Personally, my fav Plex app is the Plex for Kodi addon, but I’m biased, since I helped build it. 
When will the app for Apple TV with live tv coming
@keithah said:
Transcoding is a thing of last resort. On my setup it’s super rare anything is ever transcoded, unless I’m watching stuff on mobile or web. Definitely not on any of my TV’s.We want to use hardware codecs, when possible. Most don’t make it possible on anything they don’t want too. There’s many reasons why, most of them non technical.
I don’t think Plex on the Shield is buggy at all, it’s my main use case. I find the Apple TV one more frustrating, and was happy to replace it with the Shield. I personally don’t like the UI at all on it. I’ve shown so many people the hidden left sidebar panel exists. And have had to use the ‘reload’ button far too many times. Any UI with a reload button that isn’t a web app concerns me. But I understand why these things exist, and the limitations folks have had to put up with to deal with TVML/Native code esp in regards to getting things out the door.
You’re actually the only one I’ve heard say Android TV is buggy. I’ve personally turned on dozens and dozens of folks to it and they love it. My entire family has Shields these days…the calls I get are never related to stability of it.
Personally, my fav Plex app is the Plex for Kodi addon, but I’m biased, since I helped build it.
Plex on Android TV is excellent (the device was my problem). Actually Android TV is fine on my Mi Boxes so maybe its the Shield itself. I had tons of issues, maybe it was related to it being the launch month of the v2 Shield. I do know they have specific issues with Vizio P Series TV’s so maybe that was some of it too. It was extremely flaky keeping a 4K resolution, and when it lost it the only fix was a hard reboot as the UI would be a green screen. I also know a lot of people have issues with it while using receivers.
Plex is part of my ecosystem, so it does come down to what can handle everything. For instance, my wife and I mainly use Plex (90%) and occasionally Netflix or Amazon Video. We use the Channels app for live TV currently, although will visit Plex Live TV once it arrives on the ATV. My parents, who watch our toddlers at our house a few days a week live out of Disney Jr. and Nick Jr., one of which didn’t work with Comcast. Same with HBO Go, I can’t use it specifically on Android TV but can on Apple TV. My nit picks, but a one device for all should exist…someday…hopefully haha.
I am a fan of Plex on KODI addon, and loved the UI but wasn’t a fan of the limitations it has (usability because its an addon). Maybe some have been fixed, not sure since I got rid of my Shield. Things like exiting directly out of KODI on exit… nit pits for sure but I need usability for children.
The nVidia Shield 5.2 update brings TV tuner support and write to NAS support. With this in mind it just became a viable option for me and it also looks like a great companion to Plex for obvious reasons.
The Channels App looks and sounds fantastic (from reading about it). Maybe I just need to bite the bullet and use both.
It’s a shame the Channels DVR functionality is 8 USD per month. Free television should not be that much, especially when we can get Netflix for about the same price.
@Traveloguy - I am currently usung Channels for live and Plex for DVR. Having good success using Plex with DVR, live still needs a little work for me to use effectively.
Best part of Channels is the LiveTV program grid.
