PLEX ready to replace Windows Media Center?

General Discussions Plex Features
1

I’m new to PLEX’s DVR and Live TV. I’m here because the laptop running my WMC had a fan failure. So I thought I’d give Plex a go to replace WMC.

My first few days with it are leading me to believe I should go back to WMC on Windows 7 and come back another day when Plex is a bit more mature. From what I have experienced, and what I have read in the forums, and what appears to be many questions by users that have no answers from PLEX I don’t think the wife is going to allow for PLEX to replace WMC. If I can’t get it to reliably record a couple of shows as I saw it do today… it’s not ready for prime time.

For those having run WMC, and now running Plex DVR/Live TV, what is your opinion?

2

I’ve tired Plex because of the low monthly subscription options and options to update to lifetime, but just like you I didn’t like the outcome. With my setup it took forever for shows to start playing and sometimes recordings wouldn’t record for no reason. Even with it costing twice the cost of Plex monthly ($8 a month) I switched to Channels DVR and I don’t think I’ll look elsewhere for a every long time.

3

HI Fin745,
I’m rebuilding my Windows 7 Laptop that runs Windows Media Center to have a bullet proof working solution for now (My wife will not give her stamp approval to a Plex solution as I work out the issues with it)

I almost went “all in” for the lifetime subscription based on my year with Plex as a free service (occasional use of it) It wasn’t a daily driver needing a high wife approval rating.

I like the idea of a non subscription model.

Based on my first week with the product, I’m not sure I justify paying the $4.99 monthly fee to participate in what appears to still be a Beta level implementation of the DVR / Live TV features.

I REALLY wanted Plex to be my Live TV / DVR solution.

Based on the amount of time I an spend trying to make this be a Wife friendly, Wife approved solution, I may have to opt out for now and let the WMC laptop provide the LIve TV / DVR services for our house.

Eventually Guide Data is going to dry up on WMC, and I’ll have to go elsewhere for my Live /TV DVR needs.

I haven’t looked at HDHomeRun’s DVR solution yet, because the lifetime subscription by PLEX brought me here first.

I may give PLEX another month for me to figure out what I’m doing wrong to make it a bullet proof, wife friendly system.

SJ

4

I’ve run into a few big limitations with Plex DVR:

  1. It’s honestly unreliable. DVR’s can’t fail on recordings.
  2. It’s feature-limited. You can’t have cablecard tuners plus antenna tuners, for example. Or just use one tuner from an HDHomeRun. The feature set isn’t very robust.
  3. It “locks” the entire HDHomeRun (all the tuners) from other devices, which was something Media Center never did. It’s not requred, the HDHomeRun can work with multiple devices at the same time and each device could have its own tuner until it runs out. Without that feature, it doesn’t play well with others in the house. (A real world consequence: It meant we couldn’t test Plex DVR while also using Windows Media Center. That was definitely not wife-approved, especially with the other problems listed.)
  4. The main Plex client that natively plays MPEG2 and deinterlaces is Plex Media Player on a small low-power PC. And Plex doesn’t support their own DVR in Plex Media Player.
  5. Some channels (on Comcast channels after their h264 transition), the Spanish-speaking audio track is being used on Roku, and there is no option to change the track. There’s a separate thread about that problem.
  6. It’s transcoding all live TV, including h264 channels that direct play in HDHR Viewer. That adds up for unnecessary load on the CPU.

Any one of these are a deal-breaker, and there are six of them (there were four when I started, and I’ve edited and added two more!). So for now, I keep an old Windows 7 Media Center box live, but have really focused on moving recordings to NextPVR for now. It’s working fine. Kodi integration is next. I don’t mind revisiting Plex DVR in the future as they hopefully continue to build it out. A single client-server option with remote access would be great once the issues are resolved.

5

Yep. +1 for Plex not reliable. I just got up this morning and figured out that it’s not recording any college football. On Saturday. It’s an obvious issue, and I think one of many I’ve had. The problem is that technology has become so watered down that the quality is way too low. No matter what I do, it’s going to be way worse than I’d like, but looks like it’s not going to be Plex.

6

I voted “I’m moving forward with Plex.”. But it’s far from primetime.

As the picture shows that I’ve attached, it thinks it’s recording 15 shows with 3 tuners. Because of this, I can’t tune a live channel.

Another restart of my PMS.

Don’t get me wrong. I love Windows Media Center. I still might go back to it in the future. But Plex DVR offers one thing that is huge in my book. Remote viewing! It’s a one stop shop media manager. With transcoding to adapt to any hardware, it would be hard to go back to WMC and a Slingbox.

7

Plex DVR is actually fairly archaic in a number of key areas. Plex DVR is clearly a work in progress and the only real question is if one wishes to see if it will progress to point where it is truly serviceable.

Microsoft Media Center IMO is quite possibly the best thing Microsoft has come up with beyond Windows itself. Keep in mind I didn’t say it was the most profitable. Media Center was quite feature rich and complete when Microsoft stopped development, although, there are some modern features that could improve it.

Some of the features MCE has that Plex lacks:

  1. A full guide grid
  2. Homogeneous tuner support (dissimilar tuners with dissimilar signals)
  3. Up to 4 tuners of a kind supported natively (expandable with tuner salad)
  4. Adhering to tuner standards (tuners that meet the spec just worked including some that didn’t meet spec)
  5. Ability to add support for some unsupported tuners / capture devices with software such as Hauppauge HD PVR which can record 1080i / 720p / AVCHD / H.264 without DRM restrictions even from premium channels (HBO-HD, Showtime-HD and so on)
  6. Ability to watch recordings in progress
  7. High Reliability
  8. Highly intuitive

And more,…

Also note, if someone says that Media Center can no longer be used or the free native guide data ending means it will eventually become unserviceable that isn’t exactly accurate. You can use Schedules Direct and a utility like EPG123. You can also install Microsoft Media Center on Windows 10.

Having said that if you want to move on from Media Center and want to try something besides Plex DVR I would recommend NextPVR or Media Portal.

8

Important to note that there are some significant limitations to using Windows Media Center on Windows 10. If you use an HDHomeRun Prime, you really should stick with the 1511 release or earlier (and you have to be careful of which patches get installed). Later versions don’t work with copy-protected channels, and some recent versions don’t work with the Prime at all the last time I checked. (I haven’t looked recently!). They only work with the Extend/Connect models and antenna (ATSC) channels.

Windows Media Center is indeed one of Microsoft’s best products. I know it was unprofitable, but I wish they could have maintained a small crew for the niche product, and modernized it with the newer interface.

Also, seconding EPG123 is a wonderful little program.

9

Ultimately, the demise of WMC will be it’s lack of support for MPEG4.

10

@kd6icz said:
Ultimately, the demise of WMC will be it’s lack of support for MPEG4.

I’m no expert, however, it was my understanding that the Hauppauge HD PVR encodes the component inputs in real time using the H.264/MPEG-4 (part 10 MPEG-4 AVC/H.264). If Media Center didn’t have support for MPEG-4, I don’t see how the Hauppauge HD PVR could work with it.

11

@Octavean said:

I’m no expert, however, it was my understanding that the Hauppauge HD PVR encodes the component inputs in real time using the H.264/MPEG-4 (part 10 MPEG-4 AVC/H.264). If Media Center didn’t have support for MPEG-4, I don’t see how the Hauppauge HD PVR could work with it.

WMC was never designed to support H.264. It does to a certain extent. The example you gave is one that will work. Sort of…

The limitation is it will play H.264 on the HTPC itself. No extenders!

The other limitation is DRM. WMC doesn’t support DRM “Copy Once” CableCARD content in H.264. Many have tried. With more and more cable companies switching to H.264, this will mean the end of the line for WMC.

12

@kd6icz said:

@Octavean said:

I’m no expert, however, it was my understanding that the Hauppauge HD PVR encodes the component inputs in real time using the H.264/MPEG-4 (part 10 MPEG-4 AVC/H.264). If Media Center didn’t have support for MPEG-4, I don’t see how the Hauppauge HD PVR could work with it.

WMC was never designed to support H.264. It does to a certain extent. The example you gave is one that will work. Sort of…

The limitation is it will play H.264 on the HTPC itself. No extenders!

The other limitation is DRM. WMC doesn’t support DRM “Copy Once” CableCARD content in H.264. Many have tried. With more and more cable companies switching to H.264, this will mean the end of the line for WMC.

All free to air UK HD (all BBC’s, iTV, Channel 4 etc ) channels are H.264 and they are flawless in WMC. All channels work fine on Xbox 360 extender.
No need for DRM in Freesat or Freeview either.

To be honest, you dont seem to know much about WMC. There is a whole world outside of CableCards

13

@wally007 said:

@kd6icz said:

@Octavean said:

I’m no expert, however, it was my understanding that the Hauppauge HD PVR encodes the component inputs in real time using the H.264/MPEG-4 (part 10 MPEG-4 AVC/H.264). If Media Center didn’t have support for MPEG-4, I don’t see how the Hauppauge HD PVR could work with it.

WMC was never designed to support H.264. It does to a certain extent. The example you gave is one that will work. Sort of…

The limitation is it will play H.264 on the HTPC itself. No extenders!

The other limitation is DRM. WMC doesn’t support DRM “Copy Once” CableCARD content in H.264. Many have tried. With more and more cable companies switching to H.264, this will mean the end of the line for WMC.

All free to air UK HD (all BBC’s, iTV, Channel 4 etc ) channels are H.264 and they are flawless in WMC. All channels work fine on Xbox 360 extender.
No need for DRM in Freesat or Freeview either.

To be honest, you dont seem to know much about WMC. There is a whole world outside of CableCards

One of the reasons I am so found of the Hauppauge HD PVR is because it makes 1080i / 720p H.264 / AVCHD (.ts / .m2ts) recordings from cable / component (analog hole) regardless of whether it is a standard cable channel or premium cable channel all without DRM. It can do in Media Center something my CableCard can’t do in Media Center.

There is a whole world outside of CableCards, too right mate!

I suspect a real problem for Media Center would be the transition from ATSC 1.0 to ATSC 3.0. This transition is presumably for 4K broadcasting:

FCC paves way for 4K over-the-air TV broadcasting

Still there should be plenty of time before the transition and even after there should be some time due to the FCC ATSC 1.0 simulcast mandate.

Beyond that a full transition away from ATSC 1.0 means we will all have to toss out are SiliconDust HDHomeRun ATSC 1.0 tuners,…

14

For those that left WMC, and are using Plex as their ‘daily driver’ for Live TV and DVR services, is Plex on the same level as the ancient WMC when it comes to reliability? I truly wanted Plex to work for me, I really wanted to part with WMC and move into something more modern. But after a few days with it… It appeared to me that it was shiny and pretty on the surface, but once I actually tried to use it and make it work, I soon realized I needed to pull that old HP Desktop out of the garage and put a fresh copy of Win 7 pro / WMC back on it.

My two HD HomeRun Primes are humming along nicely, and reliably, with my Xbox 360 Extender with a media remote.

The wife is happy again.

I just hope someone, be it Plex, or someone else, comes up with a solution that is on par with the ancient WMC when it comes to usability and reliability.

As I was rebuilding my WMC box, I stumbled across this article, thought it was worth sharing:

SJ

15

@sjtsnix,

It depends how you consume Live TV but I’ve tried Plex awhile ago but it’s nowhere near WMC and cant really be used in family that is used to proper setup box. If you’re cable-cutter and only record prime time TV - then maybe yes.

Showstoppers:
-cant watch recordings in progress (it’s 2017, right ?)
-no grid guide
-if signal gets lost for just a second, the stream or recording fails
-no HTPC client
-for some reason, metadata used for recordings in the library is used only from theTVDB ( EPG has better and more accurate data for the shows i record but Plex seems to ignore this. I didnt figure out how to force it to use EPG data rather than theTVDB)

Nice to haves:
-cant combine multiple tuners (DVB-S with DVB-T)
-cant use EIT (DVB-T/S) EPG information → this can be worked around by generating my own XMLTV

16

I’m on ‘borrowed time’ in this forum, as I’ve cancelled my Plex Pass for now due to Plex not be reliable enough to replace my Win 7 WMC system.

Which begs the question of the 25 of you that are soldiering on with Plex… Are all of you using Plex as your primary Live TV/Plex Pass system? Do you have a non technical user i.e… the wife/spouse/kid that just wants it to work? How do you explain away the challenges that others are seeing? (no grid guide data, can’t watch a a show while it’s recording, the 100% recording bug, etc) Or, are you 25 folks not having any issues?

As I’ve stated before, I really wanted Plex to work for me, and plain and simple, it can’t compete with WMC in my household.

I wish Plex would step back and call this a ‘beta’ again, and allow those of us that want it to work have the equipment in place, etc participate in continuing to beta test. I’ll be glad to buy that lifetime Plex pass once its equal or on par with what WMC can do now. But I won’t pay for the privilege of using a sub-standard system that can’t provide DVR / Live TV day to day ‘operations’ for our house.

SJ

17

I am currently using Plex for media service, not for DVR. I currently use Windows Media Center for the recording and then use MCEBuddy to transcode the wtv files into hevc/ac3 mkv files. I do like Plex’s idiot proof approach to the server side of this setup. My belief in the DVR portion is quite shaky; That said they recently released an update that I need to put into beta test on my end. If it works it will allow me to start moving away from an expensive Microsoft driven existance to something… Less time constrained. I currently use a dual Xeon based windows 7 ultimate machine, that recently (as of to-day) is going to be replacing my core 2 quad box. I am hoping to remove the WMC portion and just use Plex and MCEBuddy to manage live and recorded TV. We shall see.

18

@wally007 said:

@sjtsnix,

It depends how you consume Live TV but I’ve tried Plex awhile ago but it’s nowhere near WMC and cant really be used in family that is used to proper setup box. If you’re cable-cutter and only record prime time TV - then maybe yes.

Showstoppers:
-cant watch recordings in progress (it’s 2017, right ?)
-no grid guide
-if signal gets lost for just a second, the stream or recording fails
-no HTPC client
-for some reason, metadata used for recordings in the library is used only from theTVDB ( EPG has better and more accurate data for the shows i record but Plex seems to ignore this. I didnt figure out how to force it to use EPG data rather than theTVDB)

Nice to haves:
-cant combine multiple tuners (DVB-S with DVB-T)
-cant use EIT (DVB-T/S) EPG information → this can be worked around by generating my own XMLTV

two more showstoppers for me are:
Can’t play, record or watch copy protected channels! ROTFL! If you can’t support copy protected channels in the USA then Plex is a non-starter! I’m not talking just HBO, Showtime, etc - on many cable companies (all of them except Comcast) most shows and channels are copy protected. They might be set to copy once, but if you don’t have a way to keep the content protected, then Plex can’t, wont and will NEVER be able to used for users with cable television (in the USA).
The other showstopper is that no matter how you cut it, Plex needs a powerful computer to act as the server (PMS) as well as robust players that have equally matched playback capabilities.

Heck, I can not stream any show I have recorded on cable directly onto my Vizio QHD television - I’m talking about 720p and 1080i video. If a platform with a GPU that can playback 4k video fine natively, but can’t play back basic HD video then the software (Plex player) is broken and/or PMS is (the server) isn’t smart enough to figure out what content needs to be converted before bein streamed to the tv etc.

Microsoft Windows Media Center went through all the same CableLabs certification and testing that TiVo has gone through plus it works with laptops, tablets (yes, I have a cheap 8" Windows tablet streaming live and recorded hd cable tv) desktop computers with 2 cores or more.

I can record up to 16 full hd shows at once on one system. Granted, when I’m actually utilizing more than 12 tuners at one time I can not reliably WATCH recored tv at the same time – but I can watch other content stored on a separate non-saturated hdd while the recording are going on.

My Media Center computers operate 24/7 365 days a year and have been doing so non-stop for nearly a decade – with upgraded tuners and faster hdd as my needs grew.

There will never again be a true “Media Center” focused around television again. Cable is “dead,” Comcast now transcodes 100% of there cable channels down to 720p - period. Quality sucks and to get sharper images, you need to stream directly from HBO, Netfix, Lifetime, Bravo’s websites anyway.

Why Plex decided to put so much effort into a “dead” platform is beyond me. They should focus on getting their streaming and transcoding working flawlessly and uninterrupted before any dalliance with features that honestly, can never and will never be as good as the DVR’s supplied by the cable companies – or as feature rich as TiVo and the 11 year old Windows Media Center.

19

Just purchased a Plex Pass with that half-off discount they recently offered - no regrets as I’ve been using Plex for years to stream movies & music ripped from discs I own and I don’t mind supporting the company. I also just picked up a HDHR Connect-Quad from Best Buy on sale during Cyber-Monday. I’m already a cord-cutter - starting with WMC + HDHR Connect Dual (x2) + Xbox 360 as an extender, eventually moving on to my current setup - a Tivo Roamio OTA + a Tivo Mini. After using Plex Live TV & DVR for about three days now, it is clear that it should still be a beta product and that my $15/month Tivo subscription payment isn’t going away anytime soon. Here’s a list of what I’ve experienced - again, in only three days so far:

  • constant “unable to tune channel (no parts)” errors - resolvable via a reboot of my PMS
  • constant “an error occurred while trying to play” “name of program” shaka1001(network) errors
  • incorrect listing for one channel in my guide (shows correct channel in DVR setup, different channel in actual guide)
  • no grid style guide (a deal-breaker as far as the spouse is concerned)
  • can only schedule recordings from specific client types - which (currently) doesn’t include my Roku streamers
  • HDHR tuners aren’t automatically “released” when channel is changed on a client - sometimes.
  • hardware transcoding (7th-gen Core i3) picture quality is not as good compared to software transcoding

Hopefully the product gets to the point to where it’s usable for daily use. For now it’s cool to be able to stream live TV to my phone remotely - something I can’t do with my particular model Tivo - requires a Tivo Stream, which is no longer manufactured, and prices for used ones have skyrocketed on eBay (other Tivo models have this feature built-in).

20

@sjtsnix said:

Which begs the question of the 25 of you that are soldiering on with Plex… Are all of you using Plex as your primary Live TV/Plex Pass system? Do you have a non technical user i.e… the wife/spouse/kid that just wants it to work? How do you explain away the challenges that others are seeing? (no grid guide data, can’t watch a a show while it’s recording, the 100% recording bug, etc) Or, are you 25 folks not having any issues?

I used WMC for 5 years as my only source of TV in the house. I showed my girlfriend how to use it and it worked great.

September 2nd of this year I switched over to Plex exclusively. Now keep in mind I’ve been using Plex for almost two years for movies and stuff. My girlfriend kept bugging me about updating the movies on her iPad. Anyone that owns an Apple device knows that is a PITA!

So I ventured out to find a NAS that had a nice suite of apps that would allow her to stream movies to her iPad. Started with a ARM based Synology that had “hardware transcoding.” I knew nothing about this stuff so I took them at their word. Well… Nothing with an ARM anything has enough power for true transcoding. But it worked as long as it was H.264 to H.264 using the Synology video app.

My buddy said “why don’t you just use Plex?”

He always cost me a couple of grand every time we talk…

So I looked up Plex and the rest is history. I’m not joking when I say I have $14k into Plex… In the past two years I’ve built 4 complete servers and own two lifetime accounts.

My girlfriend watches movies on it all the time. So does all of her friends and both of our families.

Once your household becomes familiar with the interface, introducing Live TV/DVR is easy.

I used one of my lifetime subscriptions just for the DVR. It’s a dedicated NAS installed at my parents house where they have cable that doesn’t go crazy with DRM. The NAS I’m using is not a power house by any means so it can only support one client at a time.

I’ve ordered the new QNAP TS-677 with a Ryzen 5 to replace my TS-251+. Once I get that up and running it will support at least 6 simultaneous clients. That will allow my parents and myself to use one centralized DVR.