Secret SAT>IP support

Live TV & DVR
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1

Server Version#: latest as of today
Tuner Make/Model: Kathrein EXIP 418
Guide/Lineup name: FreeSAT, FreeView, Sky
Using XMLTV?: No

Been successfully using Plex with HDHomeRun for a few years now, but was waiting for Plex to introduce satellite support, particularly as here in the UK there are more HD channels on FreeSAT than FreeView (DVB-T).

In the meantime I bought a Kathrein EXIP 418 SAT>IP server and been able to use for other purposes - but not Plex. However…

I recently noticed in another forum, a mention that Plex could now work with SAT>IP so had a look and I was somewhat suprised and delighted to find that Plex immediately finds my Kathrein and enabled me to set it up and employ multiple EPGs to map all channels. Yay! :grin:

Good news indeed, but not all is perfect:-

First of all, when first setting up, one is presented with 3 popup menus, none of which are labelled. The first is obviously the sat direction/location, but the other 2 seem related to Disecq of which I have no idea whatsoever as like most other FreeSAT users, I’ve never had anything to do with it. Anyway, a bit of help on screen would have saved some grief. In the end, the following worked:-

  • 28.2E
  • None,
  • Ku-Linear (Universal)

After the scan I was presented with over 600 channels/streams to match/map with the guides. However, this took almost an entire day as having selected an EPG and worked through the entire list, disabling all the crap that was of no interest, I realised I had to add another guide to be able to map some remaining channels. This then auto maps channels and UNDOES everything I had already configured. All made worse because the 650 or so channels are listed in what appears to be a random order and so impossible to ever find what was required, without slowly sifting through 650 channels. Missing what you wanted and have to go through them all again.

Then, requiring a third EPG and of course, having to start again from scratch. Aaarrgghh!

Here’s an idea for Plex. After adding some tooltips or other help for the sat location and Disecq settings, sort the list of channels that have been found - by name would be a good idea. Then with ITVHD appearing almost a dozen times I can actually see what I’ve enabled/disabled. Also, when adding a guide, ASK whether to auto map or not.

Also, provide the ability to see each channel’s SID so that multiple instances of a single channel can be differentiated and the best/most suitable chosen.

Little things that would make a HUGE difference to the user experience. Don’t get me wrong, I am over the moon that Plex has incorporated SAT>IP support, but it was infuriatingly slow to set up and could so easily have been much better.

And so to the questions:-

A few channels are simply missing. Like BBC1 HD, BBC4HD, Quest HD. They are available. I know the full URL (freq,symbol rate, fec etc) for them and can easily access them from the Kathrein using VLC. I also found in TVheadend (not used in conjunction with Plex) that some channels were not immediately found. But in TVH I could rescan a single mux and then they would be found. How can I do that in Plex? Not sure why it missed some channels in the first place, but what can be done to say “hey, look again”? I could even provide the full mux parameters to help.

Finally. One important advantage of satellite in the UK is Channel 4 being available in HD. Indeed, even FreeSAT lists it as being an HD channel. It was not for some time even though transmitted in clear (not encrypted), but now, offered as part of FreeSAT.

Unfortunately, in Plex it is shown as being ‘Protected’ (i.e. encrypted). This is WRONG. I don’t think it was ever actually encrypted, just removed from FreeSAT’s listing. It has always been available. The problem is that since Plex, for some reason, mistakenly believes it is encrypted, it is impossible to enable the channel. The EPGs list it, but it cannot be enabled and so cannot be used.

This is beyond infuriating. What needs to be done to get this changed? Channel 4 HD is NOT and I believe NEVER HAS BEEN encrypted. Why is Plex being so obstructive? I don’t mind them indicating a channel is ‘Protected’ as long as it can still be enabled. That way, if it is encrypted, you’ll soon know as it won’t work. But WHEN THEY GET IT WRONG, you will still be able to use that channel.

Nothing aggravates me more than developers putting in ‘safety checks’ to protect us poor users from making a mistake, but actually getting it wrong and making it WORSE for the users. If you can’t do it right, don’t ******* do it.

One more thing. Why introduce such a requested and long awaited feature like SAT>IP support, but not tell anyone? Or did I somehow miss the big announcement?

Anyway, anyone suggest how to make Plex rescan those muxes for missing channels and somehow get around the incorrect ‘Protected’ status for Channel 4 HD?

1 Like
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Still stuck with this one. Perhaps @anon18523487 might be in a position to help with this.

There is still the issue of BBC One HD London, and Quest HD not being found when scanning for channels, but of perhaps greater importance is the Channel 4 HD problem.

PMS is incorrectly flagging Channel 4 HD as ‘protected’ when it is NOT. It is clearly listed as part of the FreeSAT lineup here and I can happily receive it from the exact same tuner using a different player. One can also check the satellite guides (like Lyngsat or KingofSat) to see that Channel 4 HD is available ‘clear’, in other words, NOT encrypted. It HAS to be unencrypted in order to be part of FreeSAT’s lineup.

So, the stream is not encrypted and other players are able to obtain that clear stream from this tuner. So it is obviously Plex making this error, thinking it is ‘protected’ and preventing me from using it.

Is this an EPG problem?

Whatever it is, can someone from Plex look into this and fix it so Channel 4 HD can be assigned to a Guide channel and received as it should be.

3

Although you have satellite partially working I don’t believe it is officially supported by Plex so not sure how far you’ll get with requests for help.

CH4 is available in HD on Freeview btw.

4

I know it’s not officially supported, but PMS is coded to do it and they must want to get it right.

I get Ch.4 HD from an HDHomeRun on the old PMS, but cannot retire that until Plex allows use of the CH.4 HD channel on FreeSAT.

It’s so annoying as it is NOT a technical issue. Ch.4 HD is NOT encrypted and in fact, never has been. It was just not included in FreeSAT’s line up for political/business/contractual reasons. This is simply Plex trying to be clever and not allowing assignment of protected channels in a DVR, but GETTING IT WRONG.

One reason for wanting to use FreeSAT is because they have more HD channels, only to find Plex is getting in the way of being able to use this one. Ok, FreeSAT reception is better for us all well, but this is truly maddenning.

I’d bet it’s an easy fix too. Just a flag somewhere that needs to be set correctly. C’mon Plex. Please sort this.

5

@UKenGB I gave up any hope of having Freesat with Plex a long time ago, but it would be good if HDHomeRun did a Freesat version, I think that would work better with Plex.

The picture quality is much better with Freesat, especially with the SD channels.

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I have a problem with FreeView reception and satellite has always provided a better, more reliable signal. I’ve been using an HDHomeRun for some years and it’s been great, but I want to avoid the occasional signal problems.

If you also want FreeSat, then the Kathrein Sat>IP tuners seems to be a great alternative. I have the 8 way, so should be enough tuners to deal with all I need and in truth, as easy to set up in Plex as an HDHomeRun. Exactly the same in fact. PMS found it on the network, and the exact same process to scan channels and map to EPG etc, with several FreeSAT EPGs offered. It’s all there, but for some reason Plex are keeping quiet about it.

It does take longer to set up as there are WAY more channels found and they seem to be in random order, so trying to work through them and select what you want is irritatingly slow. If only you could sort them by name and be able to show the SID to know you have picked the right one, it would be hugely better.

Oh and take off the restriction that MISTAKENLY marks Channel 4 HD as ‘Protected’. That’s really annoying as I know it’s there and works and is clear, unprotected. It’s just an error by Plex that prevents me from accessing it.

I cannot help but question why do Plex have to PREVENT access to channels they think are encrypted. Perhaps a flag that indicates that, but why actually prevent the user from trying it. If they do and it doesn’t work, so what. Nothing’s going to blow up because they tried it. It’s not a licensing issue as encrypted channels simply will not work anyway, so Plex does NOT need to put up such barriers and cause a major problem when they get it wrong. Developers should learn to be more ‘hands off’. Just because they can doesn’t mean they should.

This issue is completely infuriating and so far I’ve not been able to get anyone from Plex to bother replying which only adds to the infuriation (is that a word?) :grimacing:

1 Like
7

Not sure if it’s an option for you but I did have Freesat working via tvhproxy and tvheadend.

8

I use tvheadend for other things, but it’s not needed for this as PMS now has Sat>IP support built-in, which is truly fantastic. Plex just needs to remove that ‘protected’ flag from Channel 4 HD as it’s WRONG.

It’s frustrating when a clear ERROR in what PMS is doing goes unheeded by Plex themselves. Not unusual I know and when things are working, it’s not an issue, but aggravating when their ERROR gets in the way and prevents the user from doing what they are supposed to be able to do.

C,mon @anon18523487, @ChuckPa, @BigWheel. Sorry to have to do that, but you forced my hand by not responding when you really should. Why do you seem so determined to NOT improve Plex by fixing what you got wrong. This not a bug as the code is undoubtedly doing what you intended, it’s just your intentions that are wrong. Whoever wrote this code did not fully understand the situation and has made a MISTAKE. I have no doubt it would be a relatively simple correction. Please. :slightly_smiling_face:

9

We don’t support satellite and there is no work going on to do so, nor any current plans to do so as far as I am aware. Yours likely works due to some similarity in chipset or something with a supported tuner.

10

Plex clearly has Sat>IP support built-in now. Apart from the unlikelihood of it working at all otherwise, why else would FreeSAT EPGs be offered.

Anyway, the point is that of the channels found, it is mistakenly flagging Channel 4 HD as ‘Protected’. Whether DVB-S or DVB-T, where does Plex get that information from? Does it reply on info from the EPG providers? The EPGs themselves do not show this, but the data may be there. However it is more likely that this is Plex’s own data and would be a very easy fix.

Look, users have been crying out for satellite support for years and Sat>IP is an obvious route to supply that as it is standard and not restricted to any particular tuner hardware. And it all already works with Plex and it’s fantastic. However, to be perfect, it just needs a couple of tweeks and then it’s a fully functional feature Plex can offer.

It is not ‘support’ as such, that I am seeking, but pointing out that a truly terrific feature needs some minor mods which if fixed would be hugely to Plex’s benefit.

Someone somewhere wrote this code and I have no doubt it would be a 5 minute job to simply ‘correct’ this error. As I said, it’s not a bug, it is simply a misunderstanding about what is available in the UK.

I implore you to please look into this. Why would you not want to make Plex as fully functional as it possibly can be? The work has already been done. This would be simple to sort and have available for all to use. Surely you can see it makes sense. :slightly_smiling_face:

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I can only tell you we do not support it. I cannot help you with something we do not support. Just because you have decided for yourself it will take X amount of time to do Y doesn’t mean it does.

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Like I said, I am not asking for support. I am letting you know you are making an error and pointing out that making this work correctly would make a lot of users very happy. Is that not something you want, i.e. happy users?

As for the time it would take, I have a pretty good idea and most importantly, the bulk of it has been done. This is as I said, a minor tweak.

13

If your tuner is this similar to the HDHomeRun, then that “Protected” flag is likely coming from the tuner itself. (Yes, one of the “enhancements” for the newly implemented broadcast standard is the ability to DRM-ify OTA transmissions.)

This is from an HDHomeRun Flex 4K, an ATSC 3.0 tuner. Notice channel 104.1 here is marked as Protected:

image

This is consistent with what is shown directly in the tuner’s channel lineup (notice the DRM tag for the same channel):

image

This comes from the tuner itself. And because of it, no guide data can be assigned to it. (Not that it would work right now due to other Plex limitations, but you get the idea.)

Plex is not arbitrarily marking it as such, but they have to comply with it. They don’t have the flexibility to ignore this flagging; to do so would be to invite litigation (likely from multiple parties).

Note: None of this means that the tuner manufacturer’s application won’t be able to stream the channel just fine; it likely will. It’s similar to SiliconDust’s HDHomeRun Prime’s copy-protected channels being able to be played by their own app, but not by Plex.

14

Thanks for joining in, but that is not the case at all. A (non FreeSAT) satellite tuner has to comply with no regulations and in any case, the channel in question is NOT protected. It is part of the UK’s FreeSAT service and ANY satellite tuner can receive it. I can tune to it with other players no problem. This is not a tuner issue.

The political situation regarding this is however confusing. As far as I recall, at one time, it was NOT available on a true FreeSAT receiver due to some licensing issue. It was in fact being transmitted unprotected, but a FreeSAT receiver would not offer it. This changed and it IS now part of the FreeSAT line-up. Any standard FreeSAT receiver here in the UK CAN receive Channel 4 HD.

Adding to the confusion, there is also currently a protected Channel 4 HD stream. No idea why that would be, but it’s there. That however is not the issue. There is an UNPROTECTED/CLEAR stream available for any tuner and as I said, it works perfectly.

There is some other factor here. PMS can scan the channels, but since this one is absolutely and unequivocally unprotected, Plex is getting this ‘allowed/protected’ status from elsewhere. Since the transponder list PMS is using dates from 2016 and woefully inaccurate now, I’m pretty sure this is simply caused by Plex not using up-to-date data.

However they apparently have no interest in keeping their customers happy with a fully featured home media and DVR system. Why keep this hidden? PMS is capable of using DVB-T, DVB-S and DVB-C receivers. Why apparently prevent their users from making full use of this? I simply don’t get it. Plex is great, but could be better and I just want it to make the best use of its capabilities. They’re not the only game in town and not making the best use of, even deliberately restricting the functionality of their product will not help them in this battle for supremacy.

15

Since I’ve established a working solution to this problem (by using that channel from the HDHomeRun I also have) I’ve not paid much attention to it, however I did contact Kathrein (manufacturer of my EXIP 418 SAT>IP tuner) directly and as expected they stated that they do NOTHING with the stream. It is extracted from the satellite transponder mux and passed unchanged to the client. If it is encrypted, that’s what the client will see. If it’s ‘clear’ i.e. unencrypted, that’s what the client will see.

So this is indeed Plex getting this inaccurate information from somewhere. Quite possibly from the same source as SiliconDust get it for their HDHomeRun tuners. That source has incorrect (simply out of date I suspect) data and Plex don’t want to do anything about it. Their transponder list was from 2016 (or maybe 2014, I forget now) and many channels have changed and therefore were not found. So I made my own list and now all the relevant channels are found. It therefore occurs to me that the data they use to flag whether a channel is encrypted or not is likely to be similarly out of date.

I did have a search around to try and find the data it is using but was unable to locate anything relevant. It would be nice if Plex stepped in here and let us know from where it gets the data about protected channels so that a fix might be possible, instead of running in the opposite direction screaming “not supported”, even implying that the functionality is not really there and it’s purely coincidental that it works. Total nonsense of course. The code is obviously all there and it asks the relevant questions and offers the appropriate guide data. Apart from this glitch it works perfectly and is such a huge benefit to those of us who are unable to receive a decent DVB-T signal.

Please Plex, tell us where this inaccurate data comes from and flags the wrong channels as ‘protected’ and maybe we can sort out a fix. That would really help your customers. There’s a radical thought. Actually helping customers. :wink:

16

You can check the ini-file in the resources/tuner/shared/scanners/dvbs/transponders directory of PMS.
But there’s only the possibility to adjust the transponders. I found a few issues on the 19.2 here in Germany and adjusted the ini - this problems are gone now…
…but I don’t know if that could address your encryption thing.
It looks like the transponder-lists itself is from 2016!

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I made my own .ini so I could ensure PMS was looking for the channels I wanted and ignoring all the rubbish in which I have less than zero interest. However, that does not include any information about whether a stream is encrypted or not.

I would have thought that Plex looked at each stream and checked whether it was encrypted or not, but clearly that is NOT the case. This Channel 4 stream is CLEAR, i.e. NOT encrypted in any way and can be simply used by any other app I have tried. It’s just Plex that mistakenly thinks it is ‘protected’. It has to be getting that bad data from somewhere, but where?

Needless to say, there’s a deafening silence from Plex themselves about this, which I still find totally baffling - and disappointing.

18

I’ve also a strange problem with a stations of only a special German Group (RTL)…
…only there stations are not working - all other stations are working perfect.
It’s frustrating - I spend that many hours for research and found no solution :frowning:

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