Subtitles Question

Plex Media Server Metadata & Adding Files
1

On average, subtitles mostly work for me in Plex as they are. However, there is one minor issue that I haven’t been able to solve. Is there any functionality to display “required subtitles” (not sure if that is the right name for it). Here is an example:

Let’s say I am watching a sci-fi show in English and don’t require subtitles for English. Everything is great for most of the show until humans encounter an alien not speaking English. When I rip a DVD to Plex, my results are mixed. Sometimes, the subtitles appears to be encoded into the show itself. If that’s the case, everything is fine and the subtitles show up along with the show. At other times, there seems to be a short version of the English subtitles on the DVD that only covers alien language. Since I don’t know if the show requires any subtitles to cover this situation, I normally rely on the Plex functionality for subtitles. However, here I normally get full subtitles meaning that once I switch subtitles on, they will be shown for everything and not just for non-English conversations.

This behavior can also be found for European TV shows where some actors might speak English and others talk in their local language (e.g. Swedish).

Is there a solution for this problem? Thank you!

2

They’re called forced subtitles.

If they exist, they’ll show up as a separate subtitle track on the DVD or Blu-ray.

They are usually easy to spot as they have very few entries compared to a full subtitle track.

Rip the disc with MakeMKV or similar.

Then analyze the file with MediaInfo. Look at the number of entries (“Count of Elements”) for each subtitle track.

You can load the movie into Subtitle Edit to confirm which track is which. You don’t have to translate the subtitle (ex PGS to SRT). It is just an easy way to confirm which is the desired subtitle.

You can then use MKVToolNix to set the “Forced” flag for the desired subtitle track (and to remove any undesired tracks). Plex honors the Forced flag in MKV files. FYI, Plex remembers subtitle settings. If you change from Forced to full subtitles, Plex will remember it the next time you play the movie and give you full, not forced subtitles.

I usually use SubTitle Edit to convert image based (PGS & VOBSUB) forced subtitles to SRT (text). Some Plex clients, such as the LG & Samsung Smart TV apps do not like image based subtitles (it can force a video transcode). Text subtitles play nice with most clients.

Here’s an example using Avatar:

I don’t have the disc handy. I’ve already ripped the movie to a MKV file using MakeMKV.

Here’s the text formatted output of MediaInfo for the subtitle tracks of the movie. It is easy to tell the difference. The “count of elements” for the regular subtitle track is 3343. The count for the forced track (when the characters speak Na’vi) is 165.

Summary 
Text #1
ID                                       : 4
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Duration                                 : 2 h 40 min
Bit rate                                 : 33.2 kb/s
Count of elements                        : 3343
Stream size                              : 38.2 MiB (0%)
Title                                    : English SDH
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

Text #2
ID                                       : 5
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Duration                                 : 2 h 30 min
Bit rate                                 : 1 966 b/s
Count of elements                        : 165
Stream size                              : 2.12 MiB (0%)
Title                                    : Na'vi
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : Yes

Here’s a screenshot of the Header Editor section of MKVToolNix. You can see where I set the Forced flag. Also double check the language settings to make sure they are correct. You can set the Name/Description field as desired. Note that not all Plex clients display the Name/Description information (a work in progress).

You can use the Multiplexer section to add/remove/re-order tracks.

Screenshot (517)
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Here’s a portion of the forced subtitle track in SRT format, converted from PGS with Subtitle Edit. The file is named Avatar (2009).eng.forced.srt and is in the same directory as the movie, Avatar (2009).mkv.

Summary 
1
00:11:08,584 --> 00:11:10,752
May the All Mother...

2
00:11:10,752 --> 00:11:12,921
...smile upon our first meeting.

3
00:11:12,921 --> 00:11:13,964
(SPEAKING NA'VI)

4
00:11:13,964 --> 00:11:16,175
Not bad. You sound a little formal.

5
00:11:16,175 --> 00:11:17,301
(CHUCKLES)

6
00:11:17,301 --> 00:11:19,595
I studied for five years...

7
00:11:19,595 --> 00:11:21,722
...but there is much to learn.

8
00:42:50,484 --> 00:42:53,320
Calm People, calm.

9
00:42:59,034 --> 00:43:01,870
What are you doing, Tsu'tey?

10
00:43:04,372 --> 00:43:07,334
These demons are forbidden here.
2 Likes
3

Thank you @FordGuy61 for putting this together!

This is really helpful information and it has answered all my questions. I already have some foreign movies in my collection and they are working just fine, but I somehow missed the concept of forced subtitles and so I am facing some issues with those now.

I have a few more questions:

  1. Is there an easy to figure out which movies/tv shows should have forced subtitles?
  2. Is there a way to run MediaInfo in batch mode to locate movies with embedded forced subtitles?
  3. Does the Plex interface differentiate between forced subtitles and full subtitles?

Depending on the answer for question 1 and 2, it seems that I am looking at a lot of manual work to remedy my forced subtitles issues.

Anyhow, thank you again! :smiley:

4

Unfortunately not. Some ppl have created Google spreadsheet documents, listing at least a few titles.

Plex is reading the “forced” flag from video files, if it’s present. Keep in mind that the “forced” flag is completely separate from the “title” of the subtile stream.
You could employ the ExportTools plugin to get a list of every title in your library. If you pick a high enough detail level, it includes the “forced” flag in the list.

I know it is included in the user interface of the Web app, Plex for Windows/Mac, Plex Media Player, Plex for Andoid, Plex for iOS.
Where it’s currently not shown is the “Plex for Smart TV” app.

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1 Like
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Thank you @OttoKerner !

I was worried that it wouldn’t be easy for me to identify the movies that have the issue. Will look for some lists on Google and also take a look at the ExportTools plugin to locate the ones with embedded forced subtitles.

Thank you for the info on the user interface for subtitles. My TV is an Android TV and so I am guessing that it is using the Plex for Android app.

Are you German? I couldn’t help but noticing the German screenshot. I am German myself, but have been living in the Bay Area for like 25 years now.

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I didn’t see it mentioned but if you set a subtitle choice for a video, it will remember that choice.

On Roku, you don’t get the extra descriptions so I go through the web interface and set\check the subtitle there to be sure the correct one is set when someone goes to hit playback on the Roku. This comes up pretty regularly with dubbed anime for “signs and songs” tracks for example.

1 Like
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Thank you @Insomnic_1 !

That is exactly what I am doing as well. Trying to pre-configure as much as possible to avoid confusion when the rest of the family is watching something. :smiley:

8

You’re Welcome!

If you have separate accounts this might not be as effective since the preference is per user rather than per movie. There are ways though, using MKVToolnix for example, to manipulate the files a bit to have them more regularly set subtitles correctly by fiddling with making sure the language settings are set correctly and the force/default flags are set correctly. Plex will use those references to help pick the appropriate subtitle file automatically along with the language preferences PER USER.

1 Like
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@Insomnic_1 You are touching one of the issues. On our Android TV, it is just my account, but everybody also has a personal account for their mobile devices. However, these are mainly used to listen to music. Nevertheless, I have put a passcode on my account to prevent our son from switching accounts on his devices. His own account has age restrictions and I have also excluded some movie categories altogether (e.g. horror).

I have also noticed that some movies don’t have proper audio language flags. Good to know that this can be fixed with MKVToolNix as well. I didn’t have the time to look into that yet.

In the future, I am thinking of creating an adult account on the TV to limit access to movie categories that require an age protection, but at the moment it is unlikely that our son will watch any TV without us noticing. Just not sure how well this will work on Android…

1 Like
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Looks like I won’t be able to use the ExportTools on Synology DSM 7.

@OttoKerner Do you know if there is a workaround or something else I could use instead?

11

You can run the CLI version of MediaInfo. It is a separate download.

You can point it at a directory and it will analyze all the media in that directory.

There are options to limit the output if you do not want the full information for each file.

MediaInfo --Help will list the options.

I don’t know if it runs on a Synology NAS. However, you could mount the media directories to a PC, Mac, etc and run MediaInfo from there.

12

Sorry, DSM 7 is still a giant construction site, AFAIK. No experiences so far. Development for Plex on that platform is also still a work-in-progress.

You may want to take a look at this: https://support.plex.tv/articles/204985278-account-audio-subtitle-language-settings/
Of course this will only work if your files are correctly tagged with language information on their audio and subtitle streams.

Further resources: How to remove tag spam and set language in several MKV files at once
Set Audio Language tag MP4/MKV
Solution for Audio: Unknown

1 Like
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Thank you for all the feedback! I ended up going with the CLI version.

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