@fluharty13 said:
Can anyone elaborate for me on how a capture card works? Or point at a good explanation?
I’m new to this as well, but from what I’ve been able to find the Hauppauge PVR 2 Model 1512 ( Hauppauge | HD PVR 2 model 1512 Product Description) is the capture card you’d need for full HD and 5.1 surround. You’d connect it to your STB with component cables and record by hitting a button on the capture card. Feels like the old school method of copying a cassette tape. There must be ways to partially automate as I see on the Hauppauge at least that it can control the STB so I guess you could schedule recordings. Not totally sure though.
FYI, seems that some folks believe this is a bit of a gray area as to whether or not its allowed by the networks. But, if for personal use only, it seems legit. If sharing your Plex library with a lot of people though it might not be.
@nyplayer said:
Until you fix allowing other APPs to share tuners Plex is useless if you use other Apps to watch DRM… all it does is crap out if it tries to use a tuner in use even though there are 2 more tuners free … I have posted about this over and over with no response. I would like to record none DRM channels in plex and still use the HDHomeRun app to watch the DRM ones. If fixing this is not in the plans let me know.
Thanks that answers my question … I will move onto EMBY full time because it is able to share tuners effectively with other APPS. if this ever changes I will revisit.
How many devices do you own?
If you only own one HDHomeRun there is absolutely no difference in using Plex vs Emby when other apps are using your tuners.
As an example if you have a HDHomeRun Prime with 3 tuners and are watching something in another app you would have 2 tuners available. Both Plex and Emby can only use 2 tuners from this device and BOTH WILL. One is not going to do something magic the other doesn’t.
Just to elaborate, Plex tells the device to tune to channel X but it doesn’t specify which tuner to use (0,1,2). The device itself chooses which tuner to use and Plex doesn’t care.
If you have 2 or more HDHomeRun units, fire up one of the other apps and see which tuner it uses as the default. Which ever Device the other apps use by default will be the last tuner you want to add to Plex. If needed remove the tuners from plex then add them back in the proper order.
That’s exactly what I did but I first used DHCP to assign a manual IPs to the devices then added them back into Plex adding the one tuner the other apps used by default last.
Just to CLARIFY what the issue is that some people including myself don’t care for is when you have multiple devices. Plex determines which tuner it’s going to record from and will use all three tuners from the first device then use the 2nd device, etc. So if a 3rd party app grabs a tuner on the first device (instead of the last device) plex will get a failure as a tuner isn’t available and doesn’t try to record using the next tuner. ← that’s the issue at hand. So this causes no issue for anyone with only 1 tuner and there is a pretty easy workaround if using 2 or more.
I have 2 Primes 4 connects 1 Quatro … I prefer my Network to be a free for all as far as using tuners … I am not going to worry how tuners are allocated … Plex is the only APP tested that does not use Network tuners properly. If recording a channel that is available via OTA all my apps use the connects and quatro first. If recording Cable channels they use whatever tuner is available never had a problem until I tested Plex constant failures … because it sometimes insists on using a tuner in use.
Why do I have to use work arounds why can’t the PLEX team just fix it like other APPS ?? Works arounds are just a bandaid and not a fix. I like the PLEX product but in a large household like mine where anyone can fire a laptop or device and start watching TV it just doesn’t work.
@mbarylski said:
I’m new to this as well, but from what I’ve been able to find the Hauppauge PVR 2 Model 1512 ( Hauppauge | HD PVR 2 model 1512 Product Description) is the capture card you’d need for full HD and 5.1 surround. You’d connect it to your STB with component cables and record by hitting a button on the capture card. Feels like the old school method of copying a cassette tape. There must be ways to partially automate as I see on the Hauppauge at least that it can control the STB so I guess you could schedule recordings. Not totally sure though.
It’s fully controllable via PC and this is why they include an IR blaster which can be used to change the channel on the STB. The button you mention is just another way the device can be used. This device can be used with the HDMI splitter I mentioned previously as well.
I was reading through this and wondered something. Does Plex require the DLNA firmware to work or can it still work with earlier pre-DLNA firmware on the HDHomeRun Prime?
@fluharty13 said:
What is the format of the output from the capture device? Is it configurable?
Looks like TS or MP4.
From the hauppaugue site, “Hauppauge Capture records in a TS file or M2TS file directly. TS is also called ‘AVCHD’ and is the native format for Blu-ray DVD discs. Also, Hauppauge Capture has an Export to MP4 function, which adds an index to the beginning of a TS recording and creates an MP4 file. This usually takes just a few seconds and does not change the video quality of your recording.”
That is not accurate info.
The TS file is just a Transport Stream file and will contain any video codec that is being broadcast. It’s codec agnostic actually. Typically in the US all OTA is MPEG-2 video. Some cable providers like Comcast use a mixture of both MPEG-2 and H.264 and some other countries are even broadcasting in H.265.
AVCHD is not MPEG-2 but MPEG-4/H.264. AVCHD is compatible with Blu-ray discs but not really compatible with DVD players. However many Blu-ray players can also read/use a DVD disc authored as AVCHD (think of it as a low content blu-ray disc).
The tuners will capture the data in whatever format is being broadcast and store it in the TS file. In order to change it to MP4 it also converts the video from mpeg-2 to H.264 (transcodes) and stores it in a completely different container format, so it’s a lot more involved then just adding an index to the file and renaming it. It’s essentially the same as comparing a DVD to a Blu-ray. This conversion by it’s very nature does change the quality and will always degrade it somewhat.
@fluharty13 said:
Well, I DO get 43 channels without DRM, but some of the ones I really wanted are in the other 320. Again, live sports is the magic bullet.
Yeah unfortunately until Silicon Dust releases its DRM ready devices Plex Live TV & DVR will be good for non-DRM content. Really the only option for roll your own DVR with full DRM support is Windows Media Center. Like i said previously you could use Windows Media Center and ServerWMC as a back end and use a device like Amazon Fire TV to run the plex app connected to the TV. I still think this setup will work with what you want since ServerWMC essentially bridges Windows Media Center to Plex Server.
Just to be clear, ServeWMC does NOT stream DRM’d content. There really is no viable workaround otherwise myself and many others like me who have moved on from Windows Media Center would have exploited it long ago. Your best bet it is to go with one of the OOT TV providers like Sling TV, PlayStation VUE, Direct TV NOW, YouTube TV, HULU Live TV, etc. You’ll have to pay for TV twice but that is probably the only viable solution if your cable provider has DRM’d everything. If you’re lucky, your cableco may have a live TV app (Spectrum, Xfinity, FIOS, etc) that will stream live channels on your new ROKU and XBOX’s. If so, that would avoid that additional subscription costs, but will probably not give you DVR capabilities.
@cayars said:
That is not accurate info.
The TS file is just a Transport Stream file and will contain any video codec that is being broadcast. It’s codec agnostic actually. Typically in the US all OTA is MPEG-2 video. Some cable providers like Comcast use a mixture of both MPEG-2 and H.264 and some other countries are even broadcasting in H.265.
AVCHD is not MPEG-2 but MPEG-4/H.264. AVCHD is compatible with Blu-ray discs but not really compatible with DVD players. However many Blu-ray players can also read/use a DVD disc authored as AVCHD (think of it as a low content blu-ray disc).
The tuners will capture the data in whatever format is being broadcast and store it in the TS file. In order to change it to MP4 it also converts the video from mpeg-2 to H.264 (transcodes) and stores it in a completely different container format, so it’s a lot more involved then just adding an index to the file and renaming it. It’s essentially the same as comparing a DVD to a Blu-ray. This conversion by it’s very nature does change the quality and will always degrade it somewhat.
Except the Hauppauge HD PVR and Colossus are not tuners. The HD PVR is a USB capture device and the Colossus is a PCIe capture card.
Yes they are. The HD PVR and the Colossus are a bit different than your typical tuners as they have an onboard H.264 encoder so all material obtained from the capture board is already H.264 encoded. Of course this diminishes the picture quality somewhat They can be set to save to the TS, M2TS or MP4 containers but will always have H.264 encoding.
The downside to these consumer capture cards is they can only do up to 1080 interlaced and not progressive. So you may need to transcode these captures yet again to get rid of the interlacing. Each transcode further reduces the quality of the original.
I have the HDPVR and it is NOT a tuner. It is a capture device only. You have to have an external IR controller set to work with your DVR software in order to use it as a DVR device.
Similarly, the Colossus also doesn’t do any tuning, it is a capture only device. (Some of us have been at this a long time and are very familiar with one or both of these devices )
As stated before, the Hauppauge HD PVR and Colossus are not tuners. Rather they are capture devices.
Typically I refer to the Hauppauge line of capture products as the “Hauppauge HD PVR and Colossus” as a kind of short hand to reference the full lineup but there are a number of different models. To that point some of those models are indeed capable of up to 1080 “progressive” capture assuming the source can be provided. So your assertion that 1080 interlaced is the upper limit is also inaccurate. If you are unaware of this fact I invite you to investigate the full Hauppauge lineup of “capture” hardware and their individual attributes.
Onboard H.264 encoder and TS, M2TS or MP4 containers are well known staples of the Hauppauge capture hardware lineup since it’s initial release (circa 2008).
1080i is the limit of component output. 1080p is only possible with HDMI which will require HDCP. Most likely if you try to attach a cable box to a HDMI capture card the cable box won’t send anything to the capture card because it will fail the HDCP handshake. You may want to do further research before telling others to do the same or maybe use the device.
Now for game consoles and game play 1080p will likely not be a problem, but cable content from a set top box most certainly will be as they will expect a proper HDCP handshake
If you read the post I made as well as the post I was responding to you will note that it was in response to a broad assertion:
“The downside to these consumer capture cards is they can only do up to 1080 interlaced and not progressive. So you may need to transcode these captures yet again to get rid of the interlacing. Each transcode further reduces the quality of the original.”
I am well aware that not all Hauppauge capture devices use component but rather HDMI. I was addressing the unsolicited generalized remark that these consumer capture devices cannot go beyond 1080i.
This is simply inaccurate. It’s too broad a statement.
Also the assertion that these Hauppauge capture devices are tuners is inaccurate.
For the context of the conversation it is a completely accurate statement. I doubt anyone was ever thinking about recording their gameplay from their PS4 during the discussion.
The context of the conversation is indeed key. However, the reference to DVR software and use case with respect to capturing TV doesn’t make these Hauppauge capture devices “tuners”. They are not tuners.
Also there are devices such as the HDFury line of products (and others) that can allow unsupported HDCP devices to be used with HDMI sources.
I have seen reports of some satellite TV users being able to capture without issue via HDMI from a large selection of their subscribed channels using such supported Hauppauge capture devices (in this case Colossus 2 I believe)(without the use of HDCP strippers). To be clear, I don’t believe that this would be common.
That is besides the point I was addressing though. That point being:
These Hauppauge line of capture devices are not tuners and the Hauppauge capture device lineup does indeed include some models that support up to 1080p capture.
I think you’ve went out on a complete tangent to the topic. It’s about DRM and if there is DRM then the HDMI will use HDCP. None of the Hauppauge product you mention alone will allow you to capture these channels unless using component and this is limited to 1080i.
In no case does Plex support these capture devices at present so it’s a mute point.
Forgetting about component but in the USA generally speaking you’re not going to be able to use a Hauppauge or any other capture device to get 1080 progressive from the TV signal end-of-story. Doesn’t matter what magic you think the device has, it’s not going to happen.
That means if you want the end resulting file to be saved/archived in 1080p you will have 3 layers of degradation using any of the Hauppauge capture cards.
1). Capture vs true stream
2). Onboard H.264 transcode
3). ffmpeg/PlexTranscoder or similar software that de-interlaces the 1080i to get 1080p file.
End result will look even worse if you record SD content this way that’s broadcast in 480i.
That’s why I said “generally speaking” above. There are a couple of test markets that have been doing 1080p for a year or two as trials, but other than that, you won’t get progressive unless it’s in 720. Both 480 and 1080 will be interlaced.
@fluharty13 said:
Thanks for the suggestions, but I don’t even own a PC that isn’t Windows 10.
I’ve furthermore learned that even the HDHR software can’t record the DRM channels, so the device is basically worthless to me at this point. My only option to truly get all of my channels is a DVR from the cable company or a Tivo.
There is another alternative. Although quality isn’t as good, you could get a PlayOn subscription and use it to record most of the DRM’d stations. Quality is limited to 720p and it’s stereo only, but you can record the majority of channels. And you can also record Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu among others. I actually use PlayOn for sitcoms where quality isn’t as important to me. Another benefit to PlayOn is that the commercial cuts are 100% accurate and can easily be skipped with chapters (or cut out with MCEBuddy).
Thanks for this Lead, I’m lucky that Comcast only DRM’s HBO and Starz for me. all my comcast content has been downgraded to 720 Anyway so its not a big deal from me to record the couple of shows I do watch on DRM channels to be in 720 anyway. This lets me retire WMC and my HDPVr which has been a PIA to keep running.
There must be ways to partially automate as I see on the Hauppauge at least that it can control the STB so I guess you could schedule recordings. Not totally sure though.
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