Ahhhh, Agents, Agents, and more Agents!!!

General Discussions
1

I thought I had everything correct but lately have been things have been a little “wonky”.
I had an issue where only a few of the actor faces would appear in the little “circle” and so I asked what the issue was and was told to change the order of the agents. I did that and it worked great. Then I added subtitles and was told that the SubZero agent had to be at the top of the order for that to work. Now, random posters for TV Shows and random seasons have lost their artwork (No issues seen yet for Movies but I can’t say for certain there aren’t issues).
So, knowing that I would like to have posters/artwork, AND, actors’ pictures, AND subtitles, what should my agents panel look like? If I need to, my priority is artwork, subtitles, and then actors.

Attached are screenshots of the mess I have now that is, obviously, incorrect.



3

@trumpy81 said:
Local Media Assets
The Movie DB or TVDB or LastFM or Plex Premmium Music (depending on the type of library)
SubZero
OpenSubtitles
Fanart

I disagree strongly.
Putting ‘Local Media Assets’ into the top spot will only work if your mp4 files either have no embedded meta data at all
or have meticulously corrected metadata.

5

@OttoKerner said:

@trumpy81 said:
Local Media Assets
The Movie DB or TVDB or LastFM or Plex Premmium Music (depending on the type of library)
SubZero
OpenSubtitles
Fanart

I disagree strongly.
Putting ‘Local Media Assets’ into the top spot will only work if your mp4 files either have no embedded meta data at all
or have meticulously corrected metadata.

And is always the first thing we tell people to take to the bottom of the list when troubleshooting matching/metadata issues.

7

@trumpy81 said:
It certainly has no bearing on whether or not a file can be matched.

You are mistaken. Embedded (wrong) metadata can indeed produce mismatches, if the LMA agent is left in the top position.

8

@OttoKerner said:

@trumpy81 said:
It certainly has no bearing on whether or not a file can be matched.

You are mistaken. Embedded (wrong) metadata can indeed produce mismatches, if the LMA agent is left in the top position.

OMG! Yes. @OttoKerner is correct. It can mess up matching movies and tv show episodes.

10

@trumpy81 said:
Then the embedded data needs to be corrected. Moving the agent around wont prevent Plex from using the embedded data.

If the online database can deliver a match based on the file and folder names, then the embedded metadata won’t interfere.

12

@trumpy81 said:
What if for reason X Plex cannot get a match and falls back to the embedded data, the user could then have an incorrect match.

True if the embedded metadata is wrong the match could be wrong. Top OR bottom.
But because PLEX will usually make the online match the bad embedded isn’t used. A win for the user.

14

@trumpy81 said:
Yeah, but one that can be overridden during maintenance for example. So the user may start out with a correct match, but could potentially end up with an incorrect match, for a period of time at least.

You may make a point here BUT this will not change the match. It may change the title so whatnot but the match stays intact.
Also, I see nothing in the maintenance FAQ that suggests that embedded data will be looked at again and possibly used.
https://support.plex.tv/articles/201553286-scheduled-tasks/

@trumpy81 said:
That has the potential to totally confuse the user, so it is best to correct the issue rather than trying to bury it IMHO.

Possibly it will. I rather be confused then have incorrect matches and be confused.

@trumpy81 said:
As I eluded to earlier, we would not recommend this course of action for music files, so why should we do it for video files?

Cause we the people don’t know, or know how to remove metadata. And IMO we shouldn’t need to. It sucks that LMA does what it does cause we the people want a simple software to install and use. We the people shouldn’t need to take a class on video editing, manipulation, and tagging. And it’s hard to explain this to some people…

@trumpy81 said:
If/when Plex fully implement tags in video files, we will be faced with this issue more and more, so why not start correcting it now?

What do you mean? What tags are you referring to? Many are already supported. BUT most do not interfere with the matching process.

15

So… what is the best, overall most preferable and functioning agent order for a movie library or a tv show library? Genuine question I would like answered.

17

@Slapbitch said:
So… what is the best, overall most preferable and functioning agent order for a movie library or a tv show library? Genuine question I would like answered.

If you understand and know how to manipulate metadata then it doesn’t matter.
If you do not know the metadata stuff then the way @OttoKerner laid out is best, IMO.
And like I said earlier, most people will tell you to move LMA down to the bottom of the list for any matching/metadata related issues you may come across in the future.

I myself have LMA at the top cause I remove ALL metadata from EVERY and ALL files I add to PLEX.

19

@NewPlaza said:

@Slapbitch said:
So… what is the best, overall most preferable and functioning agent order for a movie library or a tv show library? Genuine question I would like answered.

If you understand and know how to manipulate metadata then it doesn’t matter.
If you do not know the metadata stuff then the way @OttoKerner laid out is best, IMO.
And like I said earlier, most people will tell you to move LMA down to the bottom of the list for any matching/metadata related issues you may come across in the future.

I myself have LMA at the top cause I remove ALL metadata from EVERY and ALL files I add to PLEX.

Thank you for the response. I was under the impression that local media assets was the one that extract metadata info from your added files. How does it work if you scrub the metadata from the files and still keep LMA at the top? Sounds counterproductive, I might have misunderstood tho.

20

@Slapbitch said:

@NewPlaza said:

@Slapbitch said:
So… what is the best, overall most preferable and functioning agent order for a movie library or a tv show library? Genuine question I would like answered.

If you understand and know how to manipulate metadata then it doesn’t matter.
If you do not know the metadata stuff then the way @OttoKerner laid out is best, IMO.
And like I said earlier, most people will tell you to move LMA down to the bottom of the list for any matching/metadata related issues you may come across in the future.

I myself have LMA at the top cause I remove ALL metadata from EVERY and ALL files I add to PLEX.

Thank you for the response. I was under the impression that local media assets was the one that extract metadata info from your added files. How does it work if you scrub the metadata from the files and still keep LMA at the top? Sounds counterproductive, I might have misunderstood tho.

It does take in the embedded data AND does/tries to use this information to match stuff. The problem with this is we all know “we” did not create the file and the said metadata is not up to par with PLEX’s standards OR we did create the file but the program used adds crap like TITLE01. Not exactly the name of the movie, is it…

I had issues in the pass where LMA was at the bottom and PLEX wasn’t using my custom posters.
Though, I seemed to be the only one with the problem, lol… Don’t know why that was the case… Maybe I didn’t know something and was doing something wrong. Who knows… That was so long ago I can’t remember why I was having that problem. Nowadays, I don’t care. It’s just the way I do it now…

22

The first thing I always do when I set up a new Plex server is uncheck the LMA agent and move it as low as possible. (If you move it to the bottom Plex will often move it up to just below the last checked agent) Of course I ask the people that will be using the Plex setup if their media contains embedded metadata that is correct or wanted but that question, so far, has always been met with blank looks or follow questions like “What is embedded metadata?” Yes I know unchecking and moving it is mostly redundant but I believe in being safe rather than sorry.
That is is spite of my belief that “We should stamp out and abolish redundancy.”

The LMA agent seems only needed for a VERY small percentage of users. I even have files that were encoded many years ago that have metadata that is extremely screwed up and I find it much harder to fix each file, even on a mass fix basis, rather than simply turning off the LMA agent.

The few times I have forgotten and not turned LMA off and/or moved it down the list there have been several media files with very screwed up metadata. Fixing the metadata, or worse trying to explain how to do it to people that just want to watch media, is simply not worth the effort when it is so easy to simply not use the mostly useless LMA agent.

23

@trumpy81 said:
So Plex should not/cannot fall back to embedded data?
Isn’t embedded data considered first, before falling back to file/folder names?

Don’t know if it does. It makes no mention of this on the FAQ.

@trumpy81 said:
So you would rather be confused than not?

Interesting … lol

No, I rather be just confused as opposed of having a bad match and still being confused.
I can in most cases accept that a title changed after days/weeks/months then have a bad match.

@trumpy81 said:
I agree, users should not have to be concerned with tags, but we don’t live in a perfect world and expecting everything to be perfect is quite unrealistic IMHO.

Therein lays the problem. It’s not realistic and to explain how tags and metadata works to everyone is sometimes hard, very hard, and probably impossible. Why not nip it in the bud, at the PLEX level, not the user. I would expect perfection from PLEX before I would from billions of people. And one would be easier to fix than the other.

A lot of users have demanded tags in video files for a long time, now that it is all but here, how should we handle it?

Oh, I glad you asked(wish you were a dev, lol)
Have a new setting call EMA that deals with embedded metadata. And said EMA will be used to help with matching media and/or other stuff. Have it off by default. That way no issues will come up by garbage metadata files people add. and you can still have custom srt/artwork, etc…

Should we try to correct it as best as we can or should we just bury it and forget about it?

We can’t correct it. EVER. So yes, bury it and forget about it(LMA defaults at the bottom) would be best.

I was referring to supporting all tags in all video formats, not just mp4.

Oh hell… As it stands now, this is going to suck ass if all video formats are supported. The forum is going to get so much more traffic if additional formats get supported. I say good luck to you and the rest of the team.

24

This has been a fascinating discussion (not sarcastically). The only local media I have (on my movies) is all of the artwork and posters. I have used @“MovieFan.Plex” 's application to pull them all. It hasn’t worked for me for a little while so I don’t have all of them but probably 85%. The program never did TV shows, though, so I only have a few of those (I hope for a future where it works for that also, or Plex adds that option to the settings to extract them all for me so I don’t have to curate them again if something catastrophic happens, but I digress).

While I understand what embedded metadata is, I don’t purposefully add any (I’m not sure if Handbrake does for me but it has never been an issue). I definitely don’t plan on going through and adding or electing all of the metadata that is there now, unless there is no other way.

So, with all of that, which previous post do I use to get me back to whole?

25

@trumpy81 said:

@NewPlaza said:
I myself have LMA at the top cause I remove ALL metadata from EVERY and ALL files I add to PLEX.

So in a sense, you already agree with me by correcting the metadata (by removing it). If you agreed with Otto, then you would not bother with removing the embedded data and you would simply move the agent to the bottom of the list.

No, not in any sense do I agree with you. This is what I do. It took me many days/weeks to understand metadata removal and months to understand it more. I do not expect other people to know/learn this stuff and can’t anyways explain this to people. This would suck. Here is a piece of software that allows you to watch your movies/shows BUT you must learn how to manipulate metadata first.

I agree, that as a diagnostic ‘tool’, this works, but I do not see it as a long term solution for the issue. Long term, it is best to remove/correct the tags.

You are correct but that whole realistic world we talked about…

@NewPlaza said:
I had issues in the pass where LMA was at the bottom and PLEX wasn’t using my custom posters.
Though, I seemed to be the only one with the problem, lol… Don’t know why that was the case… Maybe I didn’t know something and was doing something wrong. Who knows… That was so long ago I can’t remember why I was having that problem. Nowadays, I don’t care. It’s just the way I do it now…

You had issues because your custom posters need to have the LMA agent enabled and sorted towards the top of the list, which obviously does not work with it at the bottom of the list.

Apparently it does work cause other people swear they have LMA at the bottom with no issue.
Like I said. It was a me thing…

So, if you have crappy tags AND you want custom posters etc., one of them has to go, either the agent gets disabled and/or sorted to the bottom or you remove the crappy tags.

You have obviously chosen to remove the crappy tags, which is what I proposed you do in the first place.

Yes, I did choose to remove the crappy tags. But again, that’s me.

27

@trumpy81 said:
Yeah, but one that can be overridden during maintenance for example. So the user may start out with a correct match, but could potentially end up with an incorrect match, for a period of time at least.

Items are not re-matched during maintenance, unless they are still unmatched or temporarily erased from the library.

As I eluded to earlier, we would not recommend this course of action for music files, so why should we do it for video files?

Because music files’ embedded metadata are easier to edit (for the average Joe) and more likely to have correct metadata to begin with.

With Handbrake embedding wrong metadata by default (it uses the ‘name’ of the DVD/Bluray, which usually is very short, all caps, and cryptic), there is also a higher probability to encounter incorrect metadata in video files.
It is a considerable obstacle for beginners to edit video files’ metdata, IMHO. There are far less suitable software options freely available.
So dragging the LMA to the bottom reduces initial frustrations considerably.

29

@trumpy81 said:
For mp4 files, you only need to use iTunes, MP3Tag or similar tagging programs, I don’t find that particularly difficult.

MKV files on the other hand, yes they can be difficult to edit, but that is still achievable if need be.

MKVToolNix would essentially be the equivalent to MP3Tag in this case. It’s what I use after converting videos with Handbrake and is simple.

I personally would love if Plex would use the name for the audio and subtitle tracks in the embedded data because I rename all of that information to have a more descriptive name. For subtitles it would be much better because I would have English and English SDH instead of 2 English tracks. But that is a different issue. Either way all that renaming is easy enough to do with MKVToolNix (though yes it would suck for huge libraries).

I do see your point though Otto, but I believe it is only a bandaid for the issue and one that causes other issues when the user needs to add local media.

Perhaps, if Plex ignored the title tag and simply used the file/folder name for matching that would also alleviate the problem?

-Shark2k

30

@trumpy81 said:
For mp4 files, you only need to use iTunes, MP3Tag or similar tagging programs, I don’t find that particularly difficult.

MKV files on the other hand, yes they can be difficult to edit, but that is still achievable if need be.

What?. I find MP4 much harder to edit than MKV, lol… To each his own
iTunes I don’t use. MP3Tag has failed so many times for me AND doesn’t remove all available metadata.

31

@trumpy81 said:
What, you can’t test this for yourself and determine how it works?

Why should I. I don’t know as much as you don’t know. You can test if you want to use it in an argument.

Either Plex does use embedded data or it does NOT use embedded data, which is it?

I was talking about the initial matching process and not what happens days or weeks later. As I said, I did not know. Thanks @OttoKerner for clearing that issue up.

So you prefer to be confused, regardless of the cause and you are not happy with trying to correct that confusion/cause, got it.

Me, yes, sometimes…for PLEX anyways.

Accussing users of being stupid and unable to grasp the function of tagging is in my opinion, disgraceful. Tagging is not that difficult to understand or teach for that matter.

After all, you learned how to do it didn’t you?

And no, that question is NOT meant to be snarky in any way.

That is not what I said. I said it’s not realistic meaning billions of people AND I don’t expect people to know/learn meaning I don’t expect people should know the metadata thing to use PLEX. And I won’t force them to learn it. It’s a piece of software for viewing you movies, afterall. It shouldn’t be this complicated.