Homebuilt 15 TB SERVER with i7 4790k and 16 GB RAM - > Supra Cat8 Patchcable → Asus RT-AC68U Router → Supra Cat8 Patchcable → Samsung UE55JS9005 2015 model → Van Den Hul The Optocoupler Mk II → Asus Xonar Essence STU → Sennheiser HD800
So… I like to enjoy music and movies… I know those “headphones” are not meant for movies but I have to say that the experience is way better than by using my built-in TV’s speakers . If I’m alone at night… I rather prefer headphones. However… I listen to a lot of music also… of these 15 TB, about 1 TB is currently music. 99 % are FLAC, some of these FLAC files has a “higher” sample rate than ordinary FLAC, like 192 khz vinyl rips. So there are some 24 BIT FLAC as well… For instance I bought content at sites like 7Digital.com, Linnrecords.com as well as a lot of personal vinyl rips… and hmm… lets say I didn’t know about what.cd. I wasn’t aware of that site. However I have huge personal collection of CD’s and some friends with similar collection of thousands of CD’s and vinyls… That also includes some 24 bit content, sometimes with high sample rates… I have several Blu-Ray’s and SACD’s… All this content might become digital sooner or later when I have time to rip and when I can spare, another 200 - 400 $ for another drive…
I wonder what the best “player” I can use. I don’t want to use Tidal, or connect my DAC to the computer… I want to use the TV at home… and my HTC phone when I’m on travel… Or possibly a laptop with my DAC and headphones if I travel for many hours. Right now I see PLEX is transcoding my content… Sometimes it’s to “MP3”… Sometimes it’s “Opus”… Right now it’s “direct play” somehow. I can’t answer why but that was not the case previously. And I have to say it sounds better with “direct play” than with MP3 and Opus… It might be just my imagination. However… that’s another discussion. I’m using the SmartTV Plex app.
My question is… Is the best solution to use the SmartTV for music in my situation? Or should I think of another player? Do I have any advantages for my music listening if I grab something like the Nvidia Shield, a roku or a own built system like with the PLEX embeded image? In terms of supported file formats, better sound, transcoding or any other possible advantage?
I would NOT go this route. With Plex having a BETA of hardware encoding you would probably be better off getting an i7 that supports QuickSync.
QuickSync will help you tremendously while transcoding once this is released in the normal Plex server version. For now you can run the beta if you want.
Carlo
PS You could try the beta now on your i7 and maybe not need to do the upgrade at all!
@cayars said:
I would NOT go this route. With Plex having a BETA of hardware encoding you would probably be better off getting an i7 that supports QuickSync.
QuickSync will help you tremendously while transcoding once this is released in the normal Plex server version. For now you can run the beta if you want.
Carlo
PS You could try the beta now on your i7 and maybe not need to do the upgrade at all!
I’m a bit confused… First thing. The i7 4790k supports quicksync as far as I’m aware of… I might be wrong thought. And WHAT BETA are you talking about? The PLEX Pass preview?
EDIT: Ohh… I found something… Is this what you’re reffering to?
Finally… I been waiting for this… BUT is it only a performance gain in terms of speed and loads? Or do I have any other reasons for this? Is it only “quick sync” or does it support GPU transcoding like if I’ll add a Titan X or something…?
I need to dig into this a little bit more…
EDIT 2: I did just try it out… Had a lot flickering… It worked out, and I was able to enable quicksync. But flickering was a bit to much. I think I’ll wait until it’s stable enough to be in the main release…
Yep, looks like you found it. It’s based on an older version of the server software (now) but I just wanted to point this out to you BEFORE you make a purchase.
I was running it but wanted the fixes that came with 1.5.2 version so I had to stop playing with it. I’m using it with a 1st generation i7 without QuickSync. I’ve played with both nVidia and AMD cards and have settled on an AMD in that server.
I haven’t seen any flicker or anything that would tell me it’s hardware encoded with the AMD. None of my users could tell the difference either while playing. If you have a machine with an AMD card try it on that machine and see what you think.
I would hate for you to spend a ton of money on new stuff if a GPU upgrade or just a newer server versions is released (with bug fixes) that improves performance for you.
Carlo
PS If you could report the problem “flickering” in that thread it could be helpful as well.
@cayars said:
Yep, looks like you found it. It’s based on an older version of the server software (now) but I just wanted to point this out to you BEFORE you make a purchase.
I was running it but wanted the fixes that came with 1.5.2 version so I had to stop playing with it. I’m using it with a 1st generation i7 without QuickSync. I’ve played with both nVidia and AMD cards and have settled on an AMD in that server.
I haven’t seen any flicker or anything that would tell me it’s hardware encoded with the AMD. None of my users could tell the difference either while playing. If you have a machine with an AMD card try it on that machine and see what you think.
I would hate for you to spend a ton of money on new stuff if a GPU upgrade or just a newer server versions is released (with bug fixes) that improves performance for you.
Carlo
PS If you could report the problem “flickering” in that thread it could be helpful as well.
I don’t think I going to invest in a new CPU just for a hw boost… Currently I don’t have much loads. It might be worse in the future… But right now I’m good with my i7. Yesterday I only had 4 lossless HD streams and 1 FLAC stream at once… My i7 could handle it with ease… I’m mass-seeding torrents on the server, as well as using it as an ordinary desktop… So when I have more users, more 4k content and when there are huge gap in terms of price and performance of current gen… I’ll upgrade. I been thinking about something similar to AMD’s Napples (but maybe for the next AMD generation) since next time I upgrade I want want to get true server hardware instead of a Workstation CPU. The main reason I want to upgrade is actually not “power” or “speed”, I’m looking for better durability and stability… maybe ECC RAM would be a pretty good thing… but ofc I don’t want to downgrade my performance next time I upgrade either. However I been thinking about underclock my current CPU. It might improve? Hmm what about that? HW boosting with quick sync and a an underclocked i7 4790k?
I will report the “flickering” problem ASAP. I might be paranoid but there is no risk the TV or my hardware could get damaged by this? I have a 4k $ TV… I would feel pretty bad if it breaks…
@SupreX said:
Right now I see PLEX is transcoding my content… Sometimes it’s to “MP3”… Sometimes it’s “Opus”… Right now it’s “direct play” somehow. However… that’s another discussion. I’m using the SmartTV Plex app.
If you are using Orca’s Smarthub App, then yes, it supports FLAC. At least when they are in stereo and 44.1 or 48 kHz sampling freq.
I don’t know if they also support higher sampling freq or bit resolutions.
Somehow I doubt it.
Your best bet for highest audio quality is to use a PC with PMP on it a a high quality DAC - either built in or external.
But I understand this is exactly what you don’t want to use…
I took a different approach for sound, but probably something similar exists in the “FLAC world”. All my music is ripped in ALAC (the Apple “equivalent”) and I use an AppleTV3 (inexpensive these days) with an optical connection to my hi-fi system. I browse the music library with the TV on, and when I start playing I switch the TV off. PMS streams to the ATV3, and ATV3 streams to hifi amplifier. Also, and highly recommended, an harmony touch (or ultimate one) remote.
True, but my hifi amplifier does not support more. If that was the case I would have chosen another method. Anyhow, the sound is much better than what any TV can achieve, and certainly better than MP3. I think that for an audiophile the sound must come from a hifi amplifier and not from the TV.
@OttoKerner said:
AFAIK optical only supports 48 kHz sampling rate and 16 bit resolution.
That explains a lot… I had no clue about that. I was digging a bit more into this and I was reading that my DAC supports 24 BIT 192 khz sampling rate BUT only on USB. My DAC, the Xonar Essence STU doesn’t support ethernet. But I’m looking to upgrade in the future… Like the Essence III or a Oppo HA-1 might be on the same “level” as my HD800 headphones… They might have an ethernet input. The main problem I have is only that I can’t use the PLEX app on the TV if I connect it to the computer…
So how to use the USB and still be able to use the PLEX app on the TV? I don’t want to have CentOS 7 or Windows on the TV…
EDIT: Isn’t there an embeded PLEX PLAYER image? What about to setup a VM, then maybe pick up a really cheap GPU and stream a PLEX player embeded OS of PLEX Player to the TV via HDMI? Then connect a USB from the computer. You think that workout?
EDIT 2: Looking at the Asus Chromebox which supports the PLEX embeded image. It has USB output and I seems to be able to mount it backside of the TV. Then I can use it as a “media player” through HDMI and output to my DAC? A Intel NUC seems to be an option as well…
@moody_blue said:
I took a different approach for sound, but probably something similar exists in the “FLAC world”. All my music is ripped in ALAC (the Apple “equivalent”) and I use an AppleTV3 (inexpensive these days) with an optical connection to my hi-fi system. I browse the music library with the TV on, and when I start playing I switch the TV off. PMS streams to the ATV3, and ATV3 streams to hifi amplifier. Also, and highly recommended, an harmony touch (or ultimate one) remote.
I’m not a big fan of Apple products… However my dad is… Since he’s not a tech guy. I was getting him an Apple TV, the latest one (ver 5 I think??) and he seems to be pretty happy with it… Works great for PLEX.
Yes, as you might read in my first post I’m using a DAC… But maybe you mean you think it should not pass through a TV?
@SupreX said:
So how to use the USB and still be able to use the PLEX app on the TV? I don’t want to have CentOS 7 or Windows on the TV…
Thank fully, I don’t know any TV which runs Windows… :mrgreen:
EDIT: Isn’t there an embeded PLEX PLAYER image? What about to setup a VM, then maybe pick up a really cheap GPU and stream a PLEX player embeded OS of PLEX Player to the TV via HDMI? Then connect a USB from the computer. You think that workout?
Why a VM? It just complicates things. Just run PMP directly on the OS of your choice.
EDIT 2: Looking at the Asus Chromebox which supports the PLEX embeded image. It has USB output and I seems to be able to mount it backside of the TV.
I don’t think you can combine any USB DAC with the embedded PMP. It needs to have proper device drivers. And as far as I know, it supports only HDMI audio output by default.
@OttoKerner said:
AFAIK optical only supports 48 kHz sampling rate and 16 bit resolution.
This used to be true but times have been a-changin’.
The original limitation was 20/48 due to the physical characteristics of (cheap) plastic Toslink cables. With proper hardware the link is capable of much more than that.
Current standard calls for 24/96 although many people do run 24/192 without issue. Some platforms (most notably Apple) will enforce the 24/96 limit on the interface no matter what. Windows and Linux do not.
The hardware necessary to achieve this requires some heavy lifting (specially polished ends on the cables, etc) and does not come cheap but it can be and frequently is done.
One interesting thing to try would be a Chromecast Audio.
The current version has both optical pass-through and it’s own cheap-but-not-so-horrible 24/192 DAC. I don’t believe Google is supporting anything above 24/96 at this time but this may change in the future. At $35 I’ve been quite tempted to grab one, plug it in to the external DAC via optical, and see what it will do.
There are posted reviews of this setup streaming from Plex with test results for both the ANALOG RCA and MINI TOSLINK outputs if you want to have a peek.
@OttoKerner said:
AFAIK optical only supports 48 kHz sampling rate and 16 bit resolution.
This used to be true but times have been a-changin’.
The original limitation was 20/48 due to the physical characteristics of (cheap) plastic Toslink cables. With proper hardware the link is capable of much more than that.
Current standard calls for 24/96 although many people do run 24/192 without issue. Some platforms (most notably Apple) will enforce the 24/96 limit on the interface no matter what. Windows and Linux do not.
The hardware necessary to achieve this requires some heavy lifting (specially polished ends on the cables, etc) and does not come cheap but it can be and frequently is done.
As I been typing I’m using the “Van Den Hul The Optocoupler Mk II” cable… It’s a “Hi-Fi” cable… I think I paid 140- 160 $ for 2m. The built quality is excellent, with connectors in chromed steel. I don’t really know if I believe in the “Hi-Fi cable” hysteria while paying 100’s of $ for a better cable… I don’t hear any difference… I pay those money because of the aesthetics (I love those), and I love to own those… It gives me a kick and a feel-good feeling… Just as much as people like to pay a lot for cufflinks or anything else. But any sound difference? I don’t know… Thought, I can’t tell if the difference is more important or not when it comes to Toslink cables… When it comes to ethernet cables there are ACTUALLY some scientific, measurable and clearly noticeable difference comparing a CAT4 cable and a Supra CAT8 cable for instance…
@OttoKerner, you are sure the Samsung TV “app” doesn’t support 192 khz? Are 192 khz supported in HDMI, or coaxial? Same support for the Samsung “Plex” app as for Plex Player app in Windows or Plex Player for embeded systems?
@SupreX said:
Same support for the Samsung “Plex” app as for Plex Player app in Windows or Plex Player for embeded systems?
Sorry, not sure what you are asking here?
I was wondering if it those restrictions was limited to some systems i.e the Samsung “app” only, or if it’s the restrictions applies to Windows or embedded systems as well.
IF PLEX only support 192 khz sampling rate though HDMI, PLEX basically won’t support music listening with any stereo, headphone amp or DAC from the Hi-Fi market… then there’s only support for home theater amps as far as I’m aware of… that might be a serious flaw for any music listener whom want to use PLEX as a music player for high res formats. Correct me if I’m wrong?
@SupreX said:
I was wondering if it those restrictions was limited to some systems i.e the Samsung “app” only, or if it’s the restrictions applies to Windows or embedded systems as well.
It applies to many devices. Some newer devicees have been extended, as @dlrohwer above pointed out.
IF PLEX only support 192 khz sampling rate though HDMI, PLEX basically won’t support music listening with any stereo, headphone amp or DAC from the Hi-Fi market… then there’s only support for home theater amps as far as I’m aware of… that might be a serious flaw for any music listener whom want to use PLEX as a music player for high res formats. Correct me if I’m wrong?
Plex was not really developed with the high-end in mind.
That being said, as long as you use hardware which supports 192 kHz sample rate, you can play your 192 kHz Flacs in full quality. You just need to use a Plex client which supports this high a sample rate. And that is - at least as far as I know - Plex Media Player, running on PC hardware.
@SupreX said:
I was wondering if it those restrictions was limited to some systems i.e the Samsung “app” only, or if it’s the restrictions applies to Windows or embedded systems as well.
It applies to many devices. Some newer devicees have been extended, as @dlrohwer above pointed out.
IF PLEX only support 192 khz sampling rate though HDMI, PLEX basically won’t support music listening with any stereo, headphone amp or DAC from the Hi-Fi market… then there’s only support for home theater amps as far as I’m aware of… that might be a serious flaw for any music listener whom want to use PLEX as a music player for high res formats. Correct me if I’m wrong?
Plex was not really developed with the high-end in mind.
That being said, as long as you use hardware which supports 192 kHz sample rate, you can play your 192 kHz Flacs in full quality. You just need to use a Plex client which supports this high a sample rate. And that is - at least as far as I know - Plex Media Player, running on PC hardware.
I don’t really know how to solve this… How to listen to high res audio thought PLEX at my TV with a DAC… Sure, I can build something like a HTPC, get a NUC or something like that and attach it to the back of the TV or having it in my Hi-Fi rack or something like that. Then I can have it to run a “PC version” of Plex Media Player… But when you say a “PC version”, do you mean Windows only or could it be Linux or for “embeded systems”?
I think the best solution would be to use “embeded systems”, because as I understand PLEX will operate as a OS (or “app only”) rather than being installed as software on Windows or Linux… Isn’t that correct? Do you know if THAT image for “embeded systems” supports 192 khz sample rate as well? IF/WHEN I investing in that, HOW will I be able to connect that device to a Hi-Fi DAC without any HDMI input? Is that even possible? Hmm maybe if I there was some kind of device/converter for that… Nothing I seen or heard of thought…
@SupreX said:
I don’t really know how to solve this… How to listen to high res audio thought PLEX at my TV with a DAC… Sure, I can build something like a HTPC, get a NUC or something like that and attach it to the back of the TV or having it in my Hi-Fi rack or something like that. Then I can have it to run a “PC version” of Plex Media Player… But when you say a “PC version”, do you mean Windows only or could it be Linux or for “embeded systems”?
The embedded (it brings a customized version of Linux with it) version of PMP would need a proper driver for your sound interface. I guess they don’t offer Linux drivers, do they?
However I have huge personal collection of CD’s and some friends with similar collection of thousands of CD’s and vinyls… That also includes some 24 bit content, sometimes with high sample rates… I have several Blu-Ray’s and SACD’s… All this content might become digital sooner or later when I have time to rip and when I can spare, another 200 - 400 $ for another drive…