DVD Rip Quality on Plex/Roku Ultra

I’ve never had a lot of luck with using handbrake to make a video resolution larger than original (That isn’t what it’s for, so not hard to understand it not working well at it). You can use avidemux to resize bigger, but there are few practical reasons to do that, it will generally only make your file larger (data footprint wise). Even a phone can “project” to a larger screen size from a lower resolution source quite well.

And, it looks to me as if your source is 4:3, not 16:9. 4:3 is TV aspect ratio back in the day (not a widescreen format). Making it 16:9 you’d have to stretch it (also not something you want to do in handbrake) which just looks like a mess, or remove from top, bottom, or a little of each… also not horribly desirable. I just live with the pillars on old shows and let the device center it on the screen and stretch to fit while maintaining aspect ratio, which generally is default behavior. Making 4:3 - 16:9 just isn’t something that you really want to do, it either looks stretched side to side (cuz it is) or you’re taking out a significant amount of visual data.

If I absolutely had to have that 4:3 (rather than the 16:15 handbrake is showing; it’s numbers always get weird, imo, if any black is removed around the edges) on the finished product, I would do one of two things.

  1. Don’t let handbrake autotrim the black from the borders of the original, and live with there being black border as data in the file where every time I watch it having it not quite fill the screen top to bottom and possibly the black of the data not match the black displayed by the device for no data. Or,
  2. Run it through avidemux at as much quality as I could stand. Remove the black from around the borders and resize it back to 720*576 making sure that the 4:3 PAR gets retained (which can be a bit less obvious to find in avidemux, but if you preview your filter chain first you’ll figure it out, with little effort). This will change the “actual” aspect ratio of what you see (marginally) but it will make the numbers prettier in handbrake and when you look at it in mediainfo etc. Then run that through handbrake at the quality you want for the finished product. (This is the only time I would make a file higher resolution: to make up for what I’ve removed. But I really don’t recommend it. Devices don’t care how much they stretch a video to fit, 1%, 800%, it seems fairly trivial compared to actually decoding the stream.)

I’ve done it all 3 ways, and in the end, not getting twisted up about the aspect ratio numbers is more productive. If it looks like the original when it plays in VLC (or whatever you preview with) then it will display just fine on whatever device you play it on as long as you have the stream/file formats and bitrates right for the device. If it looks stretched, skewed, or otherwise messed up in VLC then you probably want to take another swing at it. When in doubt, play the original side by side what you encode. If they look the same height/width wise (discounting the black borders) you’ve got it licked.

Finally, are you sticking with ac-3 audio? I only ask because I have several devices that won’t direct stream play ac-3. May not be a concern for you now, and certainly not something you can’t fix later, but… yeah.

Sorry for jumping in, JuiceWSA. Just trying to help. You’re more than welcome to correct me, especially if I’m missing some other point here.

EDIT: BTW, the magic number for 4:3 PAL is in fact 768, so either of those encodes, auto or loose should be correct.

You don’t understand what we’re doing, but that’s ok… Lots of people don’t - including Plex.

There are two conditions for DVDs:
Stored - in non-square pixels
Displayed - blown up to their full intended size - square pixels - a beautiful butterfly has taken to the wing.

DVDs are stored on disc:
720x480 - NTSC <— any number of display resolutions - all smashed up in a wad and crammed on disc
720x576 - PAL <---- any number of display resolutions - all smashed up and crammed on the disc
(DVDs can only hold so much - so compromises had to be made at the time - that’s what they came up with and it’s been working fine for… uh… a long time)

My DVD rips are stored on my HDDs just like they are on disc - 720x480 with proper flags so they’ll display in whatever aspect ratio is the original. 16:9 display at 854x480, 4:3 display at 64x480 and different flavors of wide screen letterbox display at their intended aspect ratio. It’s kinda like rocket science, but it’s not.

PAL DVDs are stored at 720x576, and you’re right… 4:3 is displayed at 768x576, 16:9 is 1024x576 and widescreen letterbox is displayed at whatever the intended aspect ratio is. All according to the packaged instructions in the file.

All was well and good with the old Handbrake because it had a Custom Tab wherein you could set the proper anamorhpic settings. They did away with that in these new versions and threw in Automatic, that for me at least, seems to be working as it should. It’s not doing so well for @pointbobb , but we don’t exactly know why right now. It could be any number of things, but something isn’t happening the way it should.

His options, right now, are to back up to Handbrake 0.10.5 and use that Custom Anamorphic tab, or encode full size for 768x576 or 1024x576 - or figure out what’s going on and deal with it so that Automatic works like it should. I don’t have any PAL DVDs so I can’t help him.

That’s what we’re trying to figure out - at this point.

From what I read, they have a 16:9 TV and a 4:3 file that they want to make fit it. But apparently I’m missing something. Your explanation doesn’t clearly identify what that is for me, but I’ll just keep reading while you figure things out with them. I’m sure it will clear up for me. Sorry for interrupting and going down a different path.

I’m not getting into aspect ratio murdering for fun and profit. All I want is Handbrake to encode the original intended aspect ratio and store it in a file with the same dimensions as it is on disc.

For me, it seems to be going fine.

If folks want to learn how to stretch 4:3 to 16:9… Call me Bennett, 'cause I ain’t in it. They can do that on their own time.

B)

Ok I’ve been working on this perplexing issue for a few days to no avail. I have only noticed this on 2 BD discs i have mkv files of.
The MKV files play fine. either to a local monitor on the server or RokuTV on same subnet as server. both are Gig connections.

I usually use DVD fab to convert to H264 and have not had an issue with defaults.

2 of my Harry Potter files Prisoner of Azkaban and Half blood prince when converted the video has a slight jerky effect on rapid moving scenes.

I have the same result using Handbrake. Varying bit rates has no change. even encoding bit rate to original MKV stream rate of 12 mpbs does not change the end result.

I have done 1 pass which uses the on board intel HD 2500 or using my nvidia card as well. Going to 2 pass which eliminates the hardware encoder end up with the same result.

anyone have similar results on other titles and maybe a setting im missing?

Hmmm.
That problem I do not have.

BTW I also use DVDFab…

No, never had an issue like that.

@JuiceWSA said:
There is no (good) reason to use 265 - and if you do you are totally on your own.

Something isn’t right with your source. It must not have an anamorphic flag (guessing). I’d like to see a mediainfo report of it.

Thanks again…here’s more info on the video

General
Complete name : D:\Downloads\Private lives of Elizabeth and Essex, The [1939 PAL DVD][En.De.Es Multisubs[9]\FullDisc\THE_PRIVATE_LIVES_OF_ELIZ_AND_ES\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.VOB
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 1 024 MiB
Duration : 21 min 16 s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 6 731 kb/s

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : Variable
Duration : 21 min 15 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 6 021 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 9 800 kb/s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.581
Time code of first frame : 01:20:46:11
Time code source : Group of pictures header
GOP, Open/Closed : Open
Stream size : 916 MiB (89%)

Audio #1
ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 21 min 16 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Channel positions : Front: C
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 spf)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -672 ms
Stream size : 29.2 MiB (3%)

Audio #2
ID : 189 (0xBD)-129 (0x81)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 21 min 16 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Channel positions : Front: C
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 spf)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -672 ms
Stream size : 29.2 MiB (3%)

Audio #3
ID : 189 (0xBD)-130 (0x82)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 21 min 16 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Channel positions : Front: C
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 spf)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -672 ms
Stream size : 29.2 MiB (3%)

Text #1
ID : 189 (0xBD)-32 (0x20)
Format : RLE
Format/Info : Run-length encoding
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 21 min 12 s
Delay relative to video : 3 s 520 ms

Right… ok, then it is working like it’s supposed to.
Click that Source Size right up to 720x576 - where it’s suppose to be… then…

Note the Display Size. It’s almost 768x576. All you need to do is use Custom Crop by ticking the button, then adjust the crop a bit on one side or the other, until you get as close to 768x576 as you can. That’s it. Check the Preview (and wiggle the slider a little as you make changes to make sure everything looks good)

I was a little brain dead before and didn’t realize your material was 4:3, but by the looks of it it’s working just like it should…

Here’s one of my 4:3s (below) - and as close as I can get is 639x480 due to some whacky cropping previously, but that’s ok. You want to try to maintain 576, for your height (I’d maintain 480) then get the width as close as you can while maintaining the aspect ratio. I clicked the Modulus up to 4 to try to get it perfect, but couldn’t. I didn’t try 8 or 16, but could have.
(I did get it to 641x480 eventually - close enough)

Seems to be working fine.

_> @JuiceWSA said:

Right… ok, then it is working like it’s supposed to.
Click that Source Size right up to 720x576 - where it’s suppose to be… then…
_
“”)

Thanks JuiceWSA. my PAL rip ended up looking quite good. But I think I’m an unlucky path with DVD rips in general lol. I am now trying to rip a North American DVD which media info says is 720x480 but Handbrake 1.07 is saying the source is 720x362. I cannot do the 854 width option as mentioned in your tutorial as the display width is no longer an option in this version. Am I failing to do something properly in settings or should I try to locate an older vers of HB?

Display size wants to be 640x480 - 4:3 DVD material.
There is no 854 width. 854 Width is for 16:9 - this material is 4:3.
You have to keep clicking the source buttons until the height is 480

You’re a legend Juice. This thread has become my handbrake bible. Picture quality has gone up and file size has gone down. Legend

Note:
Some material - high grain material most often (or those HBO openings with the TV Static we love) - will benefit from CRF rather than Average Bit Rate. Also note Handbrake 1.0.7 is far less erratic in bit rates and file sizes when using CRF, but you will still have to make a few previews - or your file sizes may go right out of the ballpark and run naked down the streets.

CRF Values of 20-23 (HD) and 18-20 (SD) are pretty good, but if you’re using ABR and notice something odd, make a preview of that area with CRF, then adjust the value a bit if necessary. It’s tricky. High Action scenes or high grain material will blow bit rates into Jupiter Orbit using CRF so if you adjust for those scenes or material the end result of the entire encode may be quite different than expected.

It’s annoying, but after a while and some fiddling you’ll get the hang of it and be able to create material that suits you.

Plex/HB (v1.0.7) newb here. Like many I am moving my library onto my NAS to simplify viewing in the house and avoid kiddos from scratching media.

I came across this great discussion and wanted to solicit some feedback. I am trying to figure out what my process is going to be before I start xcoding a bunch of stuff. I have started with “Hidden Figures” which poses several different types of coding challenges. I ripped my BD using MakeMKV. I have since tried three methods of converting the BD MKV into direct stream content that is hopefully visually appealing.

D Melton’s ‘transcode-video --quick’
HB “Apple 1080p30 Surround” preset
Tony’s “HD-Pro” settings imported from the HD.plist on this discussion.

In order of my eye’s visual rating from best to least they are:
Tony’s (1.7GB m4v, ~6 hours transcode)
“Apple” (2.6GB m4v, ~2 hours transcode)
TV-quick (6.4GB mkv, ~1.25 hours transcode)

So, I think I’d really like to use Tony’s recipe due to quality and the small file size but I’d really like to be able to xcode a couple movies while I sleep and not just one.

I tried changing the reference frame from 4 to 1 but it didn’t help…at least not by a noticeable amount.

Any other suggestions? I’m using a 2017 Macbook Pro so it only has a iCore5 @ 3.1Ghz which only has 2 cores but I’m still surprised that “Apple” takes much less time.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Dave

Well… your processor can only do what it can do, so unless you up the horsepower, it’s gonna take as long as it takes…

B)

Check the Advanced settings and make sure everything is at ‘Defalt’. If the Ref Frames at 1 didn’t help much, that’s about all there is to do.

@“david.harton@gmail.com” said:

…I’d really like to be able to xcode a couple movies while I sleep and not just one.

Batch Mode. Load first movie, add to queue, repeat for 2nd, 3rd, etc. Start queue when ready to process.

Works great. I’m working through my DVD stash. Rip discs with MakeMKV, load up three or four rips in Handbrake, click “run queue,” then come back in the morning.

FYI, if your system can handle the format, you do not necessarily have to process the rip with Handbrake. Most blu-rays have H.264/High@4.1 video and AC3 or dts audio. If your client can handle the video and pass through the audio to your sound system (so it will direct play), there is no hard & fast transcode requirement. Yes, the file size will be 25+ GB and the bit rate will be 15 Mbps - 40 Mbps, but your processing time is essentially zero (just time to rip the disc).

Everybody’s setup is different, and there are always things like VC-1 (some blu-rays) & MPEG2 (dvds) video to consider. And remote streaming a straight rip w/o transcoding will be problematic unless you’ve appropriate uplink speed.

Just wanted to mention that while there are many good reasons to use Handbrake, it is not necessarily a hard and fast requirement before using Plex. You can have less pain (transcode time) and still have the gain (enjoy your movies).

@JuiceWSA said:
Well… your processor can only do what it can do, so unless you up the horsepower, it’s gonna take as long as it takes…

Can you a little about your setup so I can draw a comparison and/or set an expectation? I see you frequently commenting about your conversions only taking 60-90 minutes. I also have some different h/w I could re-purpose if necessary.

@Ford61 said:
FYI, if your system can handle the format, you do not necessarily have to process the rip with Handbrake.
Yes, I really entertained that … a lot. But, two issues surfaced for me. While storage is getting cheaper 20+GB per movie starts to chew up space quickly. I don’t use my NAS just for movies although it will likely chew up the greatest percentage of my space.

The larger issue is that some of my devices connect via 2.4GHz Wifi so need to try to pare down the bit rate to make them play ubiquitously. Like Tony has said many many times in this discussion - Direct Play is a good thing.

Around here it’s Direct Play or the Highway.
I have violent allergic reactions to Plex’s Goofy Transcoder.
I’ve seen what it can do - and I just say, ‘No’!

I’m running an AMD FX-8350:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+FX-8350+Eight-Core&id=1780

4 Reference Frames - 1080p encodes with a Yadif or Decombing Filter are usually processed in about 75% of the time it would take to watch them. With no Filters - figure 50-60% of the run time.

So far today - I’ve done 4 Handbrake Jobs and as we speak this week’s The Walking Dead just started and it says it’ll be done in 40 minutes. TWD is special, you know… lots of grain and if you don’t give it enough quality you don’t get grain, you get dancing grain… not good.

B)

I just don’t need 35MBps bit rates.
The eyeballs in my head stop seeing any improvement above about 5Mbps - so that’s kinda what I shoot for.

The newest version of Handbrake isn’t as unpredictable on the Constant Quality as the older version, so if an action scene with low/no grain comes out in a preview at 5.5Mbps - I go with it. If it won’t behave I give it a 2 pass Turbo (jury still out on if that does anything special) at 3750-4250Kbps and call it a day.

Thanks Tony. 6 more cores running at least 33% faster…I see why your jobs are finishing so fast compared to mine. :smile:

Thanks for the feedback and reference point. I’ll try to re-purpose my older machine. The CPU isn’t as new as my MBP but it has several cores which it sounds like HB is definitely taking advantage of.

I’ll also try out the CQ settings instead of the HD.plist settings.

Cheers!

I have altered my method a bit since I started using the latest version of HB.
I think I’ve made note of the alterations and one of these days I might even update the guide, but the UIs aren’t that different - if you’ve seen one you’ve seen them all… kinda.

Here’s this week’s ‘The Durrells’ with a Yadif Default Filter and a CQ of 21.5 breezing along nicely…:

The result will probably be a nice one with a bit rate in the neighborhood of 3.25MBps… hopefully.