Plex Cloud Freakout

Tl;dr I rant about how ridiculous it is that people are freaking out over so many made up issues with Plex Cloud.

I can’t believe the amount of freaking out that is going on over Plex Cloud. When I saw the announcement, I was ecstatic. This was something I’d been hoping would happen ever since I started using Plex.

There were a few misgivings I had initially:

  1. Why Amazon storage? I didn’t even know that they offered such a service. I’d much rather use Google Drive.
  2. Why can’t I encrypt all my files in the storage layer so Amazon can’t see them?
  3. Would Amazon scan my files for pirated content (not that I have any) and what if they pull a Bitcasa/OneDrive and terminate “unlimited”?

After maybe a minute of rational thought, I was able to dismiss all these issues.

  1. Amazon offers unlimited storage at a cheap price. Frictionless entry ($60 is not bad).
  2. Plex can’t be doing anything that would lead to them aiding and abetting users in masking their piracy. I’d hate to see Plex get in trouble for anything.
  3. This is the kicker. I’ll discuss it further below.

Content with that, I registered for the beta, and started uploading my content to Amazon in anticipation (still waiting ever so impatiently 8-}).

Since I was so excited by this, I went against my better judgement, and started reading comments on announcement articles. It was like getting hit by a sheer wave of stupidity. A brave mod was attempting to respond to these idiots (granted some of them may have just been looking for information, but the vast majority are idiots), but it was no use. I’ve seen various explanations for the stupidity, ranging from JPOD (Just Plain Old Dummies), to sponsored trolling from the movie industry and Plex’s competitors, but it doesn’t matter. The fear mongering has begun. I’ve seen tech crunch articles now warning about using Plex Cloud.

The main gripe that people have is that Plex is purposely putting them in a position where they will upload their pirated content to Amazon, who will promptly shut down their account, causing them to lose all their data, and the MPAA will sue them. [Granted this next part is more about user’s not understanding the tech that they use, but hey, it’s a rant] Until that happens, Plex will be busy blowing through your data caps by uploading then downloading then reuploading and redownloading files every time you want to play a video. Of course they will limit this by only allowing one connection at a time. Naturally they’ll charge a boatload for this. “What’s that? A Plex employee says that none of that is true? Let’s ignore him and make up more BS”!

The misinformation continued to grow. I saw rational answers and explanations from the mods and community summarily dismissed, or better yet, used to soon even greater conspiracy theories.

Even though it is stupidity, it still should be addressed.

People, think about it. Plex is a profitable company with a great track record of user friendliness. The community is well built and strong. They are well aware of what a percentage of their users have Plex for. I’ll allow myself to speculate that they didn’t build Plex Cloud for home videos.

This has obviously been a well thought out feature. The preparedness of the mods shows that they knew what kind of troll response there would be, and they were ready for it. Do you think they completely glossed over the fact that Amazon could terminate the “unlimited” clause of their service, or scan for copyright violations? They ain’t stupid. Of course they took that into account.

I have no knowledge of any communication between Amazon and Plex. I’d bet money that there was/is. This is too big of an undertaking for Plex to just wing it.

Think about it from Plex’s perspective. They have 0 to gain by their users being frustrated by a crippled server, with their content getting locked away, while they get sued. I can’t believe that had to be said out loud. They want the best experience for their users. Plex Cloud is an amazing opportunity for them to win over users who don’t want to have to setup and maintain a server, worry about bandwidth, or just think it’s pretty frikin cool (personally I’ve been spending way too much time dreaming about the implementation - which I know the team doesn’t want to discuss).

Think about it from Amazon’s perspective. They have a cloud storage offering. They’ve seen what’s happened to previous players in the field of unlimited storage. What they have here is a golden egg of a huge increase in $60 a year subscriptions. I never would have even knew that Amazon had a cloud storage solution, and even if I did, I never would’ve used it if it weren’t for Plex Cloud. Amazon has little interest in losing all these users.

There was a line constantly repeated by a Plex mod in response to questions of Amazon shutting down accounts, and taking legal action. It was a bit coy, but I’ll repeat it here (shoutout to Emilio)

don’t try to run a streaming media business and you will likely be fine.

Seriously folks, Plex is here to help you. Don’t abuse the system, use it as it was intended, and you’ll be fine. Cut the stupidity!

PS don’t use Amazon storage as an excuse to not backup your data. Problem solved!

Great post. On the topic of encryption, Amazon also benefit by not having 10000 copies of the exact same file thus saving resources. Ofcourse alot of us would like encryption, but I can see it being a big issue with Amazon and also the resources consumed by Plex Cloud for on the fly decryption.

@l3uddz said:
Great post. On the topic of encryption, Amazon also benefit by not having 10000 copies of the exact same file thus saving resources. Ofcourse alot of us would like encryption, but I can see it being a big issue with Amazon and also the resources consumed by Plex Cloud for on the fly decryption.

Those are good points. I think encryption would be great, but if it came down to Plex Cloud or encryption, I’d take Plex Cloud.

My only reason for wanting encryption is because of my home videos featuring my children. SHOULD Amazon get hacked, I want NO risk at all that videos of my children will end up in the hands of pedophiles or other nasty people. Like most people who have home videoes with their small children, they can contain partial nudity of my children, as they are bathing in the pool or similar stuff.

Anyway, if people are ripping their own discs, they will have different hash values anyway so Amazon wouldn’t be able to save any space.

Only gain of not encrypting is to save space on all the pirated stuff people are uploading

@mandrup said:
My only reason for wanting encryption is because of my home videos featuring my children. SHOULD Amazon get hacked, I want NO risk at all that videos of my children will end up in the hands of pedophiles or other nasty people. Like most people who have home videoes with their small children, they can contain partial nudity of my children, as they are bathing in the pool or similar stuff.

Anyway, if people are ripping their own discs, they will have different hash values anyway so Amazon wouldn’t be able to save any space.

Only gain of not encrypting is to save space on all the pirated stuff people are uploading

I have somewhere between 0% and 1% concern about this happening. Think about it. Someone would have to hack Amazon (OK), then stumble across your account’s data which I’m fairly certain is randomly distributed around their disks. Then they’d have to care enough to look through your data, to find the pictures of your children. Then they’d have to care enough to distribute it in a place where pedophiles can get their hands on it. Or maybe the hacker is a pedophile. Sounds like you should worry more about getting hit by lightning.

Realistically, anyone who successfully hacks Amazon has 0 interest in you, or your home videos. They’re there for something big. I guarantee it.

I hear this line of thought a lot (I’m an engineer in a security sensitive field). If you’re worried about Amazon getting hacked, then you shouldn’t put any of your data anywhere online. You shouldn’t have made this post because Plex’s forums can get hacked (they have been in the past), and someone will know about your home videos. They can find your IP address from your post, and track you down so they can steal your home videos physically and distribute them. Unless, once again, the hacker is a pedophile him or herself.

I’m not trying to be mean, but please stop being ridiculous.

@eygraber said:
If you’re worried about Amazon getting hacked, then you shouldn’t put any of your data anywhere online.

Amen. And let’s be real…if AWS gets hacked at a system level, and not just a “I use qwerty123 as my password” level, then the internet is irreversibly altered.

I am mainly worried about possible liability under the DMCA.

@eygraber you are spot on! good post.

@scurtis said:
I am mainly worried about possible liability under the DMCA.

That’s valid, but keep in mind that Plex must’ve thought of that, and wouldn’t offer Plex Cloud if they felt it would be an issue. As their mod keeps saying (and now I do too):

don’t try to run a streaming media business and you will likely be fine.

Furthermore, if you’re really worried about it, don’t use it. They’re not forcing it on you, and they’re not preventing you from using the local server in any which way, nor are they pulling support for it.

Nice post. Same here. I signed up for Amazon (trial) just because I just found out about this. They have my $60 from now on. Cancelled Dropbox for which I paid $119 (CAN) for only 1TB and am using cloudHQ to transfer my existing DB data to Amazon.

Plex has been very clear in this: you are ultimately responsible for the data you upload. If you are worried because your content is illegal or whatever, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you want to encrypt your files, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you are happy with your current setup, don’t use Plex Cloud.

Really it isn’t that hard not to use a service you are uncomfortable with…

@i1u2smile said:

Plex has been very clear in this: you are ultimately responsible for the data you upload. If you are worried because your content is illegal or whatever, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you want to encrypt your files, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you are happy with your current setup, don’t use Plex Cloud.

If you worry because your data, legal or otherwise, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you want to encrypt your files to protect your videos of young children from being exploited, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you are happy with your current setup, but interested in Plex’s new Cloud, don’t use Plex Cloud.

There are many reasons to encrypt your files starting with good opsec and ending with “I want to protect my privacy.” If you want a very good example, families use Plex to share home videos, photos, and similar media. The Plex Cloud is a great way to have a family server without leaving a PC on 24/7 until you realize that uploading large caches of unencrypted videos of children is horrifying. It should always be encrypted.

@i1u2smile said:

Really it isn’t that hard not to use a service you are uncomfortable with…

You are correct, but we are PlexPass subscribers expressing our opinion of a new service Plex is offering. Paying customers giving feedback. That is hard to object to when it is a new offering to us, the paying clients.

@eygraber I think you are over-simplifying the concerns. If someone uploads pirated content to Amazon Cloud, they are accepting the risk that they might get discovered. No issues with that. The questions that are difficult to answer relate to content that you “own”.

If I buy a blu-ray from Amazon, rip it and then back it up by uploading it to Amazon Cloud, will Amazon care. I think they probably won’t. If Plex gives me the tools to start sharing this backup with others, Amazon may just have an issue with this. It is, in effect, a form of piracy. Content providers do tend to focus more on people who “share” their content, rather than those who just store it.

I do intend to try Plex Cloud, the beta version if I get selected, or the final version when it is released. It will be excellent, if it works as advertised.

@plxplz said:

There are many reasons to encrypt your files starting with good opsec and ending with “I want to protect my privacy.” If you want a very good example, families use Plex to share home videos, photos, and similar media. The Plex Cloud is a great way to have a family server without leaving a PC on 24/7 until you realize that uploading large caches of unencrypted videos of children is horrifying. It should always be encrypted.

Of course and you should encrypt those. But right now, Plex has stated it doesn’t support cloud with encrypted files. It’s perfectly fine to request this feature but the amount of whining (not so much in this forum, but elsewhere on the web) is just baffling. It’s a closed beta right now, give them a break… Or at least people should voice their concerns politely.

@plxplz said:
You are correct, but we are PlexPass subscribers expressing our opinion of a new service Plex is offering. Paying customers giving feedback. That is hard to object to when it is a new offering to us, the paying clients.

This is true. However, it’s a point that’s been beaten to death, and pushing it further only feeds the trolls. By now it should be obvious why they can’t encrypt it. I think Plex would if they could, but they can’t so they won’t. Hopefully they’ll find some way to do it in the future, but for now they can’t.

@paulgh said:
@eygraber I think you are over-simplifying the concerns. If someone uploads pirated content to Amazon Cloud, they are accepting the risk that they might get discovered. No issues with that. The questions that are difficult to answer relate to content that you “own”.

If I buy a blu-ray from Amazon, rip it and then back it up by uploading it to Amazon Cloud, will Amazon care. I think they probably won’t. If Plex gives me the tools to start sharing this backup with others, Amazon may just have an issue with this. It is, in effect, a form of piracy. Content providers do tend to focus more on people who “share” their content, rather than those who just store it.

I do intend to try Plex Cloud, the beta version if I get selected, or the final version when it is released. It will be excellent, if it works as advertised.

Yes, by using it you are accepting risk. But I’ll just keep saying that Plex is telling you not to worry, and you probably shouldn’t worry.

@plxplz said:

@i1u2smile said:

Plex has been very clear in this: you are ultimately responsible for the data you upload. If you are worried because your content is illegal or whatever, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you want to encrypt your files, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you are happy with your current setup, don’t use Plex Cloud.

If you worry because your data, legal or otherwise, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you want to encrypt your files to protect your videos of young children from being exploited, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you are happy with your current setup, but interested in Plex’s new Cloud, don’t use Plex Cloud.

There are many reasons to encrypt your files starting with good opsec and ending with “I want to protect my privacy.” If you want a very good example, families use Plex to share home videos, photos, and similar media. The Plex Cloud is a great way to have a family server without leaving a PC on 24/7 until you realize that uploading large caches of unencrypted videos of children is horrifying. It should always be encrypted.

@i1u2smile said:

Really it isn’t that hard not to use a service you are uncomfortable with…

You are correct, but we are PlexPass subscribers expressing our opinion of a new service Plex is offering. Paying customers giving feedback. That is hard to object to when it is a new offering to us, the paying clients.

Thanks for sharing my opinion about homevideos.
I store my home videos already with stablebit cloud drive and got my content in the cloud with plex - however it would be nice to get rid of my plex media server also :slight_smile:

Because something is really unlikely to happen it doesnt mean it cant, which is why encryption is a must for me. Leaks have been seen tons of times before that contained random ■■■■ that no one would want to search for.

On the topic of encryption: How many player stacks support a single media encryption mechanism? Remember this has to work without a server sitting between the client and the data so all data handling must be able to work from within the client alone. There are some pretty dumb media stacks out there and finding an encryption mechanism that works with all of them is quite fun (an exercise left to the reader).

@i1u2smile said it best:

Plex has been very clear in this: you are ultimately responsible for the data you upload. If you are worried because your content is illegal or whatever, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you want to encrypt your files, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you are happy with your current setup, don’t use Plex Cloud.

Really it isn’t that hard not to use a service you are uncomfortable with…

@mandrup said:

@plxplz said:

@i1u2smile said:

Plex has been very clear in this: you are ultimately responsible for the data you upload. If you are worried because your content is illegal or whatever, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you want to encrypt your files, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you are happy with your current setup, don’t use Plex Cloud.

If you worry because your data, legal or otherwise, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you want to encrypt your files to protect your videos of young children from being exploited, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you are happy with your current setup, but interested in Plex’s new Cloud, don’t use Plex Cloud.

There are many reasons to encrypt your files starting with good opsec and ending with “I want to protect my privacy.” If you want a very good example, families use Plex to share home videos, photos, and similar media. The Plex Cloud is a great way to have a family server without leaving a PC on 24/7 until you realize that uploading large caches of unencrypted videos of children is horrifying. It should always be encrypted.

@i1u2smile said:

Really it isn’t that hard not to use a service you are uncomfortable with…

You are correct, but we are PlexPass subscribers expressing our opinion of a new service Plex is offering. Paying customers giving feedback. That is hard to object to when it is a new offering to us, the paying clients.

Thanks for sharing my opinion about homevideos.
I store my home videos already with stablebit cloud drive and got my content in the cloud with plex - however it would be nice to get rid of my plex media server also :slight_smile:

Because something is really unlikely to happen it doesnt mean it cant, which is why encryption is a must for me. Leaks have been seen tons of times before that contained random **** that no one would want to search for.

OK so make your own personal calculation. Do you feel like the risk of Amazon getting hacked is low enough for you to use Plex Cloud? End of story. I’ve seen your post verbatim in at least one other thread so far. What do you hope to gain (and by you I’m referring to all the fear mongers across the internet posting hypotheticals and straight up inaccuracies)?

I’m sure Plex would allow resting encryption if they could. It’s obvious that right now they can’t. If that’s not good enough for you, then don’t use it. I know, I know, everyone just wants to complain, and they have a PlexPass so they have a right to complain. Good for you. I can only speak for myself, but I’m getting sick and tired of seeing all this negativity (basically unfounded mind you) towards what promises to be a great product, and I feel like there are many in the forums who agree with me.

@gbooker02 said:
On the topic of encryption: How many player stacks support a single media encryption mechanism? Remember this has to work without a server sitting between the client and the data so all data handling must be able to work from within the client alone. There are some pretty dumb media stacks out there and finding an encryption mechanism that works with all of them is quite fun (an exercise left to the reader).

@i1u2smile said it best:

Plex has been very clear in this: you are ultimately responsible for the data you upload. If you are worried because your content is illegal or whatever, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you want to encrypt your files, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you are happy with your current setup, don’t use Plex Cloud.

Really it isn’t that hard not to use a service you are uncomfortable with…

In practice the files would be encrypted at rest on Amazon, the server would decrypt them, and then send it to the client with whatever encryption they currently use. The player shouldn’t have to change.

@eygraber said:

@mandrup said:

@plxplz said:

@i1u2smile said:

Plex has been very clear in this: you are ultimately responsible for the data you upload. If you are worried because your content is illegal or whatever, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you want to encrypt your files, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you are happy with your current setup, don’t use Plex Cloud.

If you worry because your data, legal or otherwise, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you want to encrypt your files to protect your videos of young children from being exploited, don’t use Plex Cloud. If you are happy with your current setup, but interested in Plex’s new Cloud, don’t use Plex Cloud.

There are many reasons to encrypt your files starting with good opsec and ending with “I want to protect my privacy.” If you want a very good example, families use Plex to share home videos, photos, and similar media. The Plex Cloud is a great way to have a family server without leaving a PC on 24/7 until you realize that uploading large caches of unencrypted videos of children is horrifying. It should always be encrypted.

@i1u2smile said:

Really it isn’t that hard not to use a service you are uncomfortable with…

You are correct, but we are PlexPass subscribers expressing our opinion of a new service Plex is offering. Paying customers giving feedback. That is hard to object to when it is a new offering to us, the paying clients.

Thanks for sharing my opinion about homevideos.
I store my home videos already with stablebit cloud drive and got my content in the cloud with plex - however it would be nice to get rid of my plex media server also :slight_smile:

Because something is really unlikely to happen it doesnt mean it cant, which is why encryption is a must for me. Leaks have been seen tons of times before that contained random **** that no one would want to search for.

OK so make your own personal calculation. Do you feel like the risk of Amazon getting hacked is low enough for you to use Plex Cloud? End of story. I’ve seen your post verbatim in at least one other thread so far. What do you hope to gain (and by you I’m referring to all the fear mongers across the internet posting hypotheticals and straight up inaccuracies)?

I’m sure Plex would allow resting encryption if they could. It’s obvious that right now they can’t. If that’s not good enough for you, then don’t use it. I know, I know, everyone just wants to complain, and they have a PlexPass so they have a right to complain. Good for you. I can only speak for myself, but I’m getting sick and tired of seeing all this negativity (basically unfounded mind you) towards what promises to be a great product, and I feel like there are many in the forums who agree with me.

If you actually read what I wrote I NEVER complained I just told the reason why would like encryption. don’t put your frustration on me, I never complained about plex cloud, just agreed on the need for encryption and my reason why - just as you have yours why it doesnt matter