A friend of mine just got an invite to this Plex Cloud, which I have been watching with alarm.
I am extremely nervous about the idea of Plex encouraging storing mass amounts of unlicensed video in the cloud and sharing it with friends, essentially for a fee. This is basically the same type of scenario Kim DotCom is being prosecuted for - even though in his case I think he’s legally innocent I belive in this case you wouldn’t legally be innocent. Because, I believe this would mean many people whom don’t understand IT would put pirated copies in a cloud account that can be directly linked to the individual and implicate the Plex Company and themselves. Most people probably don’t realise how traceable the Plex data leaves you even today, including a full list of what you have and what you’re doing with it, let alone taking this cloud step.
Personally, unless I have missed something big (please tell me), I think this is the worst idea Plex have ever tried to implement and it is cocky to the extreme. There are so many things wrong with this idea I don’t know where to begin, I worry that this could begin the shutdown of the Plex company and then everyone loses.
Users are responsible for the content they upload to a cloud storage provider regardless of whether they’re using Plex Cloud or not. Plex has nothing to do with what content a user chooses to upload. A user is also in control of whether or not they share content with others if they’re using Plex Cloud.
But even if we ignore that aspect of things, Plex is used for way more than just “unlicensed” content. Home videos, photos, music, etc. are all used in Plex and can be uploaded to a cloud storage provider (and used with Plex Cloud) without issue.
One key difference between Plex and Megaupload is that Plex does not host any of your content. If you were to upload a copyrighted movie to Plex cloud, nobody could send a takedown notice to Plex; they would go after the cloud storage provider instead.
Someone could always try to argue that Plex facilitates piracy, but that would be because of the core server program (and would be a very weak legal argument). Plex cloud does not make it any easier to distribute files on top of an existing cloud storage account; it just provides convenience features for playback.
Regarding Chris C’s reply, do you really think that ‘users are responsible’ makes a difference? This is the same argument Kim Dotcom has. And while I personally agree with that theory, law makers don’t seem to. Furthermore, Plex ABSOLUTELY is facilitating this particular usecase in many ways which I won’t go into here, because honestly, it’s quite obvious.
Regarding telion’s reply, this may be a key difference between Plex and Megaupload, however it ISN’T different between plex and other sites, such as bit torrent sites like pirate bay. They don’t host the content either, but that hasn’t stopped law from shutting them down.
Saying that Plex should be taken down because of Plex Cloud, which is what would have to alleged to attack Plex over this, is the same as saying that all bittorrent type programs should be outlawed.
Do bittoerrent applications allow pirated content to be accessed and viewed? Yes. Do such programs, in themselves, violate any laws? No.
Plex cloud is in the same category. That is Plex allows any content to be viewed that the user can otherwise access BUT it does not host or in any way force one to use content that one does not own.
In fact, unless it has changed, Plex Cloud does not even have “channels” implemented and therefore the marginal nature of some of those does not even come into play.
@marshalleq said:
Regarding Chris C’s reply, do you really think that ‘users are responsible’ makes a difference? This is the same argument Kim Dotcom has. And while I personally agree with that theory, law makers don’t seem to. Furthermore, Plex ABSOLUTELY is facilitating this particular usecase in many ways which I won’t go into here, because honestly, it’s quite obvious.
If you upload copyrighted material to a cloud storage location, and the owners of that service notice, they won’t go after Plex, they will go after YOU, since you uploaded the media. Ripping movies you own is illegal, and downloading torrents of movies is definitely illegal - Plex has nothing to do with any of that. To say Plex facilitates DMCA violations is ludicrous in my opinion. If you download movies illegally, you are going to do that no matter what software you use to play it.
Elijah, I believe you would be correct in terms of the transport part of the program - particularly if you think of a console version of Bittorrent, however the GUI part of the program which links it all together in Plex (such as a Bittorrent site) is where it all get’s problematic. Essentially Plex is giving an averagely capable user, the capability to shift the content from their home, into the cloud ans share it with their friends.
I’ve heard nothing above, that makes me worry less. Is there going to be mandatory encryption? WIll the filenames be made invisible / garbled in any way? Cloud just makes the evidence easier to find.
kegobeer-plex - I actually don’t want to get too much into the discussion about what Plex is or isn’t doing regarding DMCA - I’m sure it’s been had before. I just want to focus on the cloud part of it. Perhaps you’re right, perhaps they will just go after the individual, in which case I’d still ask what is Plex doing to ensure the data is very very secure.
@marshalleq said:
Elijah, I believe you would be correct in terms of the transport part of the program - particularly if you think of a console version of Bittorrent, however the GUI part of the program which links it all together in Plex (such as a Bittorrent site) is where it all get’s problematic. Essentially Plex is giving an averagely capable user, the capability to shift the content from their home, into the cloud ans share it with their friends.
I’ve heard nothing above, that makes me worry less. Is there going to be mandatory encryption? WIll the filenames be made invisible / garbled in any way? Cloud just makes the evidence easier to find.
Your friends can watch, not share. They cannot download a copy - a crucial difference between torrent software and Plex. But again, it is YOU and not Plex that downloads movies or rips them.
There should be no mandatory encryption on Plex’s part, or trying to make things more difficult to find. Why would Plex even bother? If you want to use cloud storage for illegal movies, that’s entirely up to you.
(And by you I mean anyone, I’m not singling you out.)
I’m just going to leave this here for some others to comment. I think the difference between watch and download is splitting hairs in this case though.
And without saying the thing that I don’t want to say, you’re basing your argument on a fact that you know isn’t a fact, so again I think this is a very cocky feature on Plex’s part. But as I said, I’ll leave it for some others to comment for now. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
@marshalleq said:
I’m just going to leave this here for some others to comment. I think the difference between watch and download is splitting hairs in this case though.
And without saying the thing that I don’t want to say, you’re basing your argument on a fact that you know isn’t a fact, so again I think this is a very cocky feature on Plex’s part. But as I said, I’ll leave it for some others to comment for now. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted or even harassed for simple viewing or even downloading of protected files. The “reports” that say “downloading” are actually talking about the second part of that. That is they are actually about the “seeding” or sharing of protected content.
In the prosecutions for bittorent downloads what gets noticed is the uploading side of the process mostly.
But all that aside in most areas, all as far as I know, there have never been an action for viewing pirated content. All the actions are to stop the hosting or distributing of such content. Plex does not host anything and Plex does not distribute anything so there really is no vector by which Plex could be attacked.
Plex users “could” be targeted and the hosting services themselves “could” be targeted but Plex could not be. There are, possibly, legal stretches that could be used to make it appear to those unfamiliar with what actually happens in copyright legal circles but those that know will attest that Plex is in no way vulnerable to any legal maneuvers that anyone might want to bring concerning copyright issues.
I’m quite technical, and I can tell you, I couldn’t? stream video from the Internet without Plex - it would be far too complex and too much hassle. So it isn’t all on me. (Me being figurative of course).
I was talking about ripping/downloading and uploading to the storage to feed Plex , With a 3rd parity storage Plex cloud will not work .
How is you putting ripped data on a storage device Plex’s fault ?
Ok it must have been the car makers fault you got drunk and drove your car in to a tree !!! not your fault at all nothing is the end users fault !!! LOL
Steaming from Cloud/DC/Remote locations. This has been going on for along time with or with out Plex .
VLC
Kodi
Emby
and more
just a little bit of configuration for a highly technical person like your Self
Open up kodi point it to your online storage or map online Store to OS play file not hard !!!
LOL: Just mapped my ACD watching TV at work took 30 seconds .
Joke: when the cops come knocking ill blame marshalleq because it sounds good and its not my fault !!!
The outcome of these debates will depend on the “opportunity” of where content is stored.
While not technically legal, it is unfeasible to go after copyrighted content on each users local home NAS. However, storing content at a provider like Amazon or other large, legally liable companies is a totally different ballgame.
Again, while there is no legal difference, there is a pragmatic world of difference, and the storage providers won’t hesitate for a heartbeat to respond to a court order.
@latweek said:
The outcome of these debates will depend on the “opportunity” of where content is stored.
While not technically legal, it is unfeasible to go after copyrighted content on each users local home NAS. However, storing content at a provider like Amazon or other large, legally liable companies is a totally different ballgame.
Again, while there is no legal difference, there is a pragmatic world of difference, and the storage providers won’t hesitate for a heartbeat to respond to a court order.
This thread is about Plex being killed by legal issues resulting from Plex Cloud. What you have said show a potential problem for users but it in no way shows that Plex has any exposure. In fact it makes a pretty good tangential argument that it is only the user that has any ultimate potential problem.
I think Plex have been smart about all of this. Undeniably, a lot of Plex users are populating their libraries with copyrighted content that they have not paid for. However, many of us are using Plex for Home Movies, Music ripped from our own CDs, Photo Libraries and our own custom rips of TV Shows and Movies (ripped from owned media - admittedly still a legal fuzzy area).
So from Plex’s point of view, Plex can absolutely be used for personal media and not to facilitate copyright theft. Plex does not allow users to download copyrighted media or flaunt protections, it merely organises media and facilitates tightly-controlled sharing.
Whether this media is stored on the cloud or not shouldn’t make much of a difference to Plex as a company as it is all exposed to the internet in the same way (through Plex User accounts).
Plex recently introduced DVR and from my point of view this is a concerted effort to (1) point users in the direction of legally-obtainable media and (2) protect Plex from accusations of profiting from copyright theft. Plex does not encourage users to rip DVDs or Blurays to populate their libraries. There are plenty of easier targets out there that are “closer” to the issue of copyright theft, so I consider Plex to be relatively safe in this regard.
One area of concern that has nothing to do with the Cloud aspect is users who rent or sell access to their own Plex libraries. Plex seem to be pretty good about banning users who are selling access to what is guaranteed to be copyrighted media but I believe this is the only area where a record label or studio could legitimately claim Plex is profiting from facilitating copyright theft. As long as Plex keep on top of this kind of thing then it will be ok.
@jdbrookes said:
Plex seem to be pretty good about banning users who are selling access to what is guaranteed to be copyrighted media but I believe this is the only area where a record label or studio could legitimately claim Plex is profiting from facilitating copyright theft. As long as Plex keep on top of this kind of thing then it will be ok.
Considering that Plex doesn’t sell software, I don’t see how they could profit from it. I could maybe understand that if a Plex Pass somehow gave you extra capabilities via an unlock key, but since that’s not how the software functions I think there’s no way any company could link Plex to profiting from DMCA violations.
