Plex PS4 Feedback

Plex Players Gaming Consoles
1

Finally. Happy to see this as much due to the PS4 now having more media capabilities as much as anything.

 

From my brief play I have some questions/feedback.

 

1. I have my PS4 connected via ethernet to a gigbit switch that my PMS install is connected to. Now setting plex streams to even 1080p/8 mbps and play a direct mkv of a BluRay (in this case Avatar) I keep having buffering issues. Now I'm unclear if this is a issue with plex, my network, the ps4 ethernet port or what. I'm not really sure how to test for it either. At least beyond changing ethernet cables/ switch ports/switch. But that does not help me test plex or my ethernet port.

 

2. It would be nice if I could browse content via genre like I can other plex clients.

 

3. Just like with chromecast I have an issue where if I resume shows with subtitles (to jump to a point in a video) they subttles are not shown, but they are shown if I just start from the beginning.

2

Is your Plex Server powerful enough for transcoding on the fly? Have you tried 20mbit/s, so your PMS does not need to transcode?

3

Naah. That should be fine. My server is a Quad Core Intel 2500k based server with 8GB RAM.

And taking the ethernet cable that goes into my PS4 and plugging it into a Macbook and running Plex Home Theatre bears that out as I get no buffering issues streaming the same content in direct play mode.

So it seems to me its all on the Client/PS4 side.

4

Naah. That should be fine. My server is a Quad Core Intel 2500k based server with 8GB RAM.

Yes, that should be enough. But what happens if you force the PMS into transcoding on PHT by not selecting direct play and instead limiting the data rate to 8 mbit/s und deselecting the dts option? Emulating the capabilities of the ps4. If buffering does not happen then, the problem should indeed be on the ps4 side.

5

Lim

Yes, that should be enough. But what happens if you force the PMS into transcoding on PHT by not selecting direct play and instead limiting the data rate to 8 mbit/s und deselecting the dts option? Emulating the capabilities of the ps4. If buffering does not happen then, the problem should indeed be on the ps4 side.

Well limiting to it to 20 mbits on my Macbook/PHT it plays without buffering issues using the cable from my PS4.

So it seems like its on the PS4/Client end rather than my network/thecable/pms. Not sure how I work out which it is.

Its weird, For plex to stream buffer free on my PS4 using ethernet I need to set it to 4 mbits. Yet I'm pretty sure Netflix streams at higher rates.

6

Lim

Well limiting to it to 20 mbits on my Macbook/PHT it plays without buffering issues using the cable from my PS4.

So it seems like its on the PS4/Client end rather than my network/thecable/pms. Not sure how I work out which it is.

Its weird, For plex to stream buffer free on my PS4 using ethernet I need to set it to 4 mbits. Yet I'm pretty sure Netflix streams at higher rates.

Netflix typically streams 1080P at 3 Mbits. They stream Super HD at 6 Mbits I believe.

7

Just like with chromecast I have an issue where if I resume shows with subtitles (to jump to a point in a video) they subttles are not shown, but they are shown if I just start from the beginning.


Does this happen with all files? Could you provide a Plex Media Server.log showing it happening?
8

Does this happen with all files? Could you provide a Plex Media Server.log showing it happening?

I did post a snippet in another thread in the Server Preview forum in relation to Chromecast.

https://forums.plex.tv/topic/132074-subtitles-only-displayed-with-chromecast-when-playing-video-from-start/

It seems to happen with most if not all. Just that it only happens with Chromecast and now the PS4. If I play the same videos directly with the andoid version (on my phone) and the ios version (on my ipad) it doesn't happen.

I'll do it again with the PS4 client and grab some logs.

9

Netflix typically streams 1080P at 3 Mbits. They stream Super HD at 6 Mbits I believe.

Right. Well I did another test, connecting a Xbox 360 to the same etherne cable and using the plex client to play the same content. It played without buffering issues the video (a mkv of the Avatar BluRay) at maximum settings.

So it does seem the buffer issues is on the PS4/PS4 App side and not my network or Plex Media Server. I guess the only thing left for me to try is a PS3 via ethernet to see if that suffers the same issues for me.

EDIT: And after testing, my PS3 suffers the same buffering issue. So at least now I know its not just a flakey ethernet port on my PS4. Or at least unlikely.

10

Exactly what are the buffering issues? Does it stop playback to do this, prolong buffering at start up???? 

What are the specifics of the MKV?

I am playing from my underpowered Synology DS413, it can't transcode, it locks up under a 1GB MKV if it is attempted. I have successfully played a 18.5GB MKV Video specs..: x264 @ 8599 kbps, Audio specs..: 6.1 DTS-ES 1509 kbps and only had 6 seconds of buffering on start up, then it's fine. PS4 and DS413 are connected via 500Mbps Ethernet over Power. Similar with another 16GB MKV.

I have the PS4 set to 20 Mbps.

11

Exactly what are the buffering issues? Does it stop playback to do this, prolong buffering at start up???? 

What are the specifics of the MKV?

I am playing from my underpowered Synology DS413, it can't transcode, it locks up under a 1GB MKV if it is attempted. I have successfully played a 18.5GB MKV Video specs..: x264 @ 8599 kbps, Audio specs..: 6.1 DTS-ES 1509 kbps and only had 6 seconds of buffering on start up, then it's fine. PS4 and DS413 are connected via 500Mbps Ethernet over Power. Similar with another 16GB MKV.

I have the PS4 set to 20 Mbps.

Well in this case every 5 or so seconds it pauses with a buffering message appearing for maybe a second and then it continues on.

As for the mkv. Its a pure rip of the Avatar BluRay made with makemkv. Its a 37 GB file. According to plex the video is 27711 kbps (Not sure how plex determines that), and the audio is a 1536 kbps DTS track.

Though trying some other samples, I see that occasionally even with much lower bitrate videos, such as one example being a 2842 kbps 720p video where it pauses to buffer occasionally (like twice during its 20-odd minite runnign time).

12

Well your video is being transcoded.... so start at the server and work your way back.

The PMS... your CPU is strong enough to transcode on the fly mostly but you need to verify by looking in your logs for a reading that shows "SPEED => 1.5" or a different number. The number will tell you how many live streams it is capable of streaming at that moment and anything over 1 is fine. If it is under 1... your CPU is not keeping up.

The network... you said you have a hard wired gigabit switch for your network... perfect. I can only assume that since you have a gigabit switch that you also have gigabit ports on your PMS (not that 100mb isnt fine as well).

Clients... The big discrepancy in your testing is the clients codec handling abilities. Both the Chromecast and Playstation require an MP4 container with AAC audio and h.264 video. Anything outside of that will require it to be transcoded. A PHT or Web Client running on a PC/Mac will have the ability to direct stream MANY if not all of the codecs and containers which is why you wont see them stutter or buffer. You need to plan ahead with your digital library and understand the amount of transcoding required on those super large bluray rips and either rip them into another format... or re-rip them/pre-transcode them into the containers and codecs that the majority of your clients will need to stream. If space isnt an issue, perhaps consider making a seperate library that contains your original rips for streaming on the PC/Macs and then a second library that contains all the pre-transcoded files in the MP4/AAC/h.264 variety.

13

So what about my Xbox 360 testing? What containers does it handle? I ask because as I noted, it played the video with no buffering hickups.

i will dig out and post some logs though.

14

> As for the mkv. Its a pure rip of the Avatar BluRay made with makemkv. Its a 37 GB file. According to plex the video is 27711 kbps (Not sure how plex determines that), and the audio is a 1536 kbps DTS track.

The others are correct. This video needs to be transcoded to reduce quality. The recommended quality is 8Mbps (system recommended). You can go higher but it's sensitive to the video itself. We set it low and if you all want to go to 11 it's there for you.

15

> As for the mkv. Its a pure rip of the Avatar BluRay made with makemkv. Its a 37 GB file. According to plex the video is 27711 kbps (Not sure how plex determines that), and the audio is a 1536 kbps DTS track.

The others are correct. This video needs to be transcoded to reduce quality. The recommended quality is 8Mbps (system recommended). You can go higher but it's sensitive to the video itself. We set it low and if you all want to go to 11 it's there for you.

Its weird. Even setting it lower (back to 8 or even to 4) I see the issue. Meanwhile if I use any other client and its transcodes down to what the client wants just fine with no issues.

So i've done some futher testing.

File1. I took my direct rip mkv and ran it through mkv2mp4 which remuxed the video into a mp4 container but converted the audio to aac.

File2. I ran the mkv through handbrake and generated a mp4 (which plex says is 10701kbps video) which contained a 6 channel aac track and a pased thru dtshdma track. The video was set to High Profile using quality setting 19.

I then tried to played both, with the PS4 Plex app set at 20 megabits and then 8 megbits.

With the first file I had buffering issues at both settings (just like the original mkv), with the second it played fine at either setting.

I guess now I need to do this again and capture the logs to see whats going on inside the server. If the original mkv did not play fine on the xbox and other clients (though transcoded) I might have though that PMS transcoder could not handle Avatars high bitrate.

EDIT:

And doing those tests again whilst looking at the PMS log file

With File1, even when the Plex app set to 8 megabits: Av Speed: around 1.5; Min: .8 or .9. - buffering pauses frequently

With File1, and with Plex app set to 4 megabits: Av Speed: around 1.6; Min 1.2 - no buffering pauses

With File2, even when Plex is set to 8 so it does transcode (it directplays when set to 20): Av Speed: 1.8 ; Min: 1.2 or 1.0 - no buffering pauses

Meanwhile testing my 360 client with those same files:

File1. Client set to 20 mbps: Av Speed 1.5 Min: 1.2; Client set to 8mbps: Av Speed 1.5 Min: 1.2 - no buffering pauses

File2. Client set to 20 mbps: Av Speed 2.3 Min: 1.6; Client set to 8mbps: Av Speed 2.0 Min: 1.5 - no buffering pauses

Then another test. Using a chromecast started from an ipad using 1080p/8megabits as its setting.

File1. Av Speed 1.4; Min Speed 0.9 - no buffering pauses

File2. Av Speed 1.2 Min Speed 0.8 - no buffering pauses

Finally...I upclocked my PC's 2500k from default (3.3GHz) to 4.2 GHz. This made no difference to the PS4 tests.

Overall I don't really understand. Clearly its a server/transcoding issue. But I don't understand why its only on the Playstation client that theres buffering pauses.

In the end my optiosn seem to be:

1. Use the PS4 client and just set the bitrate to 4 megabits

2. Run all my Bluray images through Handbreak to generate a sub 20 megabits mp4 file and use the PS4 client

3. Just continue to use the mobile clients with Chromecast.

4. Upgrade my PC to a more modern/powerful CPU.

16

1. Use the PS4 client and just set the bitrate to 4 megabits

2. Run all my Bluray images through Handbreak to generate a sub 20 megabits mp4 file and use the PS4 client

3. Just continue to use the mobile clients with Chromecast.

4. Upgrade my PC to a more modern/powerful CPU.

Where did 4Mbps come from? You mentioned earlier that File2, at 10.7Mbps, played smoothly.

For context the Xbox 360 transcodes 1080p video to 720p.

Your server is clearly capable enough to transcode File1 between 8Mbps/1080p and 20Mbps/720p in order to achieve smooth playback.

"Why is 20Mbps an option if I can't stream a video AT 20Mbps?".

This is a valid question. The reason lies in the selectable local bitrates (8, 10, 12, 20), the lack of a 'Direct Stream' check box, and our assumption that people are playing encodes instead of rips.

For example, take a video video with a bitrate between 12Mbps and 20Mbps. The only way to get it to Direct Stream in our current setup is to choose 20Mbps. So most encodes will play fine because their average bitrate is in the teens. Although as you've found if you play a rip it's going to max out at 20Mbps and the PS4 isn't ready for this.

Typically we offer 20Mbps as a way for the user to figure out what works because we literally cannot touch every make and model device out there. The PS4 is an exception, we're higher touch on this device.

At Plex we're talking about how to make our playback quality selection clearer and more accurate. By our experience here, we have a long way to go. Enjoying a product should not involve debugging it.

17

Where did 4Mbps come from? You mentioned earlier that File2, at 10.7Mbps, played smoothly.

For context the Xbox 360 transcodes 1080p video to 720p.

Your server is clearly capable enough to transcode File1 between 8Mbps/1080p and 20Mbps/720p in order to achieve smooth playback.

The 4 comes from the fact that if I set the PS4 client to 4Mbps its able to smoothly play both my raw rip of Avatar (which I imagine translates to all my direct rips of BluRays).

If I set it to 8, its unable to play the raw rip of Avatar (and the remuxed version in a mp4 container - thats was file1) without having buffering issues. I'm not sure why it has issues. Given what I documented above I assumed it was my server not transcoding fast enough and thats what caused the pauses and 'buffering' messages on the PS4 client. On the other hand that doesn't happen with other clients I guess its clearly a Playstation issue.

So as I said I have a choice of just using the existing direct rips and setting the Ps4 client to 4MBps (as thats the highest setting where I don't have buffering pauses) or to create lower birate versions as I did with Avatar for this test (that was file2).

At Plex we're talking about how to make our playback quality selection clearer and more accurate. By our experience here, we have a long way to go. Enjoying a product should not involve debugging it.

Sure. Though I guess with us premium customers its a little like being a beta tester or early access person (in the sense of videogames). And certainly for myself I have an interest in understanding video birates and playback etc. Even if its a little madening at times.

I guess one curiousity is the number of bitrate settings in the Xbox client versus the Playstation one. Or why the 360 client has a maximum as well as a 20 Mbps setting but the Playstationn doesn't. Is this indiciative of some kind of fault or weakness of the Playstation platform in terms of video streaming?

18

Hi there,

I can’t find anything to confirm/infirm but HD/lossless audio tracks like TrueHD are transcoded to poor AC3 regardless of the Audio > AC3 option enable or disabled.

Did I miss something?

I’m using the

  • latest PS4 app: 01.40
  • latest Public PMS on Win10: 1.7.5.4035
19

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