My “assumptions” seem well supported by this thread.
Also I NEVER said people can’t or shouldn’t express their own feedback rather I simply said I do not understand why the useless debate continues.
But this debate about the debate is even harder to understand.
Shrug.
Silence is acceptance.
It is difficult to effect change, if you do not speak up or act.
Like the Lotto, you cannot win if you do not play.
I agree that debating it probably won’t change it. I was actually just wanting a little more transparency (lol) with the decision. I heard that one of the main reasons was because it wasn’t used much (small percentage of users) and that even though the forums were in an uproar, the forum users were an even smaller percentage. I accept the first point. but if that is the reason, then everything should be based on those rules or just say the real reason was because Plex wanted to come out with their own version of things like subtitles.
On the second point, if Plex isn’t going to listen to the forum users for their opinions, since they are a small percentage of users, I would love to know what group they are listening to since the forums are the only place that anyone I know of can reach someone at Plex (unless you are investor beyond a Plex Pass subscriber). If there is another group that gets Plex’s ear, let’s hear about these souls. Forum users may be small but we are evangelical and get other people to start using also.
That is all!!
Arguing is fine, but like all other threads, it’s hard to gauge properly how wide spread certain opinions are. The best way to quantify that is to create a feature request to bring back plugins. Sort of like a petition. That’s the best way to quantify things. However, even that might not help. Just because the people that like a feature are adamant about it, doesn’t always carry over in terms of numbers. Going back to my TV show analogy, if a show gets cancelled, complaining about it and writing how much you like the show won’t bring it back (almost never happens). When it does happen, it’s typically due to the quantity of reactions, not the specific arguments by any individual person or persons.
That’s surprising
Metadata agents, yes including Sub-Zero. From what I’ve known it doubles up as an agent. But the point I was making was different, oh well.
I think you grossly underestimate that statement. I have seen people struggle on Windows, forget Mac Users (copy/paste what,where,how) and Linux (permissions) and we are not even talking about NAS and other devices.
Give the Ninja’s a raise ! To be honest that’s surprising to me. I felt through the years the commits dwindled from Employees and was passed on to the Ninja’s but I guess I am wrong Plex Plug-ins · GitHub and not to forget when they were considered hot and called Plex Plugins !
For me, this is not about Plugins anymore. I have accepted that. But if I want to invest myself into a platform I intend to use for years to come I do want to understand the thought process of making decisions since Plex rarely gives you an idea of whats to come or what will get axed.
I would be shocked if a developer actually said that “plugins was a bad feature”, the point was it was not implemented well, not updated for current times and mostly ignored while other “so called hot new” features were being worked on.
Oh, got me there. I did not know these were listed.
It’s possible that the very early versions of some of these plugins may have had Plex involvement as a proof of concept, I don’t know the whole history. Plex has not been involved in the maintenance of any of these plugins in a long time if ever. Plex has helped on the PMS and client sides to make sure plugins still work when bugs are found. This is the support that takes away resources, not the plugins themselves.
What some of these developers have done with plugins is amazing, but as previously mentioned by Elan himself, plugins were never intended to do what they do now. The intent was to allow access to streaming videos from various websites. Supporting something that was never intended is a lot of work.
I’ve suggested — on a few occasions — an unsupported, unlisted “legacy” version of Plex clients be a available for those who still want to use plugins. It would require minimal work and quiet those of us who use them until a new system is developed. It would be a great compromise IMO.
Not a single response from any Plex employee about that.
Probably there is no response because it is a bad idea that accomplishes nothing. Plugin support requires that plugins be supported at the server level and that is what is truly being removed. So, to allow any client to use a plugin the support must be left in the server or rewritten into the server.
It is the server and the developers that maintain it that is truly overburdened by plugin support and once support for plugins are removed from the server clients cannot support plugins.
So, to maintain plugin support as you suggest would require as much or more time and effort from developers as is required now and Plex gains none of the benefits that they are hoping to gain from the removal.
Plugins are going away and those of us that use them need to find ways to get along without them and not waste time and energy impotently trying to change Plex’s mind.
not exactly accurate.
the new plex clients are dropping support for plugins before the server plugins are transitioned out. like the beta/preview roku client which does not support plugins (while the server still does).
leaving legacy clients that still support the server plugins, is what is being requested.
also remember that even if the web interface for plugins is removed, that manually installed plugins are still going to be supported (until they aren’t).
for those manual plugins, will still require clients that can access those plugins. which the new clients do not.
so yes, there is definitely a need to keep legacy clients around.
And that’s what I was afraid of and the same could very well apply to the 98% who never realized that there is an excellent Subtitle agent already available right in the Plugins directory, forget about all the 3rd party ones. The subtitle feature from Plex is definitely nice but not groundbreaking for someone already using a plugin. An FYI, I have had many conversations with a lot of developers (Kodi and other platforms around 2013/2014) and most didn’t even realize Plex had plugins because for all these years they were called “Channels”.
Sad to see you say that. But the whole idea of plugins should be to extend the capabilities of a platform (not limit it but make it limitless). If you have a framework that allows doing more than the intended purposes more kudos to developers in my opinion. Plugins & Tools like Sub-Zero, SS-Plex, Trackt, WebTools, Tautulli and many more all came into existence in such a way and have enormously extended the Plex experience. I do hope if Plugins 2.0 ever came into existence they don’t get limited.
Hate to say, but its a difficult ask. Even if Plex is willing iOS, Roku, Samsung etc. might not be willing to. Also, unless you stop updating your PMS, plugin framework will eventually be removed from PMS. The only long terms solution is to make a VM or separate installation, install a PMS that continues to support Plugins and grab one of the cheap Android box or FireStick and install the last version of the Plex apk that continues to support Plugins.
Just to play devils’ advocate, that statement could also be used to support removing plugins. A great tool like SubZero was already in the directory and still 98% of people didn’t use any plugins.
Right and the idea was for adding video content. It was never imagined tools like WebTools, SubZero, and the original PlexPy would exist. Support for this stuff was hacked in after the fact. There are still things that can’t be done because it was never included in the original framework.
If there is a Plugins 2.0, I would think it would support these types of plugins much better.
The whole conversation going on between Moviefan.Plex and coder-alpha fits what I’ve said before. Devils advocate or not, many here using plugins believe that if Plex had not ignored them for the past few years, it’s likely they wouldn’t be where we are today. Plex would have more eyeballs, and us plugin users wouldn’t feel ignored.
Similarly to something I posted here or elsewhere, plex should have developed and released a stable, public API 2.0, before announcing the imminent removal of legacy plugins support from client/server, and this would all be academic.
I’m not sure what you think was being ignored, except for the lack of documentation. That didn’t stop the plugins you liked from being created. Documentation may have helped create more plugins, but I don’t know if the quantity of available plugins would have significantly increased their usage.
Please note that we did not kick out any plugins, we only kicked out the discussion in our forums related to these plugins. And these plugins were ones found to be accessing sites that illegally carried content.
plugins done right (at least for the most part) = @ chrome://extensions/
and
and
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/developer/dashboard?hl=en-US
I’ve just spent 10 minutes searching for the one post I know, posted by a plugin ninja/dev, that had several nicely laid out. The post asked for others, and I myself posted.
To my knowledge, they weren’t addressed.
I also know, not a bug, but many requested a form of subtitle support be included in the plugin API - it never was either. (and I don’t mean download like Subzero)
I refuse to spend more of my time proving this point - I’m not the only person who felt this way, as I’ve stated in a discussion with dane22 previously after my post. I’m not a developer, but a close dev friend I made here shared that opinion with me, and that another had shared with them.
I’m so tired of seeing this point - I’ll simply state this again - the whole Plex eco-system could be considered a very grey background Jolly Roger flag.
One rhetorical point I will say (of many I’ve made already, just see previous replies above to cayers) - does Apple allow for the streaming of it’s non-DRM content from the itunes library using Plex, grabbing info from the itunes XML?
I’ve not researched the TOS, but my guess is no.
I’m perfectly fine that it does, but please stop trying to use the ‘piracy’ clause in any relation to plug-ins.
Yes, but the plugin threads that were removed were clearly in the black, no grey what-so-ever.
But seriously, what would be the harm in eliminating the plug-in directory, leaving manually installed plug-ins alone as is until such a time as a plug-ins api 2.0 is developed? Would there be any support at all that the plex team would have to engage in? If there are developers who are happy to support their own work, why not let them?
The problem with that is, that 3.Party plugin’s relies on the framework, and Plex would still have to maintain that, in order to keep up with like security issues.
Also, the framework is based on Python 2.7, that has an End of Life
That’s exactly what is happening.
