Sorting by "Random" NEEDS an option to limit the refresh rate

Plex Media Server
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Here is an example of the issue that needs fixed:

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Random sort issues
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What are the filters which you are using to create this collection?

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Only 2 filters: Label = Featured & Limit to = 6

This has been a mild, ongoing issue since the option to sort by random was released. I did make a post previously about it but the topic was closed automatically so I couldn’t add to it. It was essentially asking for a small change in the shuffle logic to work similar to the default hubs and only refresh every day. Or even just an option to select how often it refreshes the sorting such as every hour / day.

It’s even more frustrating on clients (Apple TV) when browsing, because when you enter a Show / Movie to say, watch the trailer, when you back out sometimes the hub has refreshed and the item you wanted to look at next is gone :cry:

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That video is “haha, horrible” funny.

I saw your previous post, and my thoughts were -

  • I like that it’s random “each time”!
  • But it’s annoying that clients refresh on “Back”
  • I wish clients refreshed less often
  • I hope they don’t make random less random

I think the client is being told “some items have been updated”, so it’s (correctly) refreshing the collection. It has to, or changes wouldn’t be reflected in the client.

This video makes me think the only viable solution is what you describe - seed the random() with a more stable, periodic value.

I wonder if random() could get a session-specific seed?

5

In theory, it’s super handy to have it refresh every time! But, in practice… it falls a little short. What’s curious is that their own hubs are waaaay more stable because they don’t refresh every time, they refresh every day.

I personally see 3 possible solutions to this issue:

  1. Refresh the randomly sorted hubs once a day, similar to how their own work.
  2. Include multiple random sort options: refresh immediately, every hour, every day (or just 1 with an option to input our own preference)
  3. Only allow hubs that are sorted randomly to refresh when either the webpage is refreshed (not updated) or specifically when the user closes/ opens the client.

I would be happy with either of those options, however, I would personally prefer option 2 so that I can be happy setting it to daily and people that like it immediately can set it to immediately, which would keep everybody happy, but option 1/3 seems like it would take the least amount of work.

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An observation about your #1 and #2 is that they would be consistent between clients, where #3 (as today) is different for every client.

I was going to say that #1 and #2 have a discovery problem, but actually #3 does too. How does a browsing user know that it is sorted randomly, and when it will refresh? (I’m adding [shuffle] to my random collection names!)

I sorta love that Random/Shuffle is such a difficult thing to get right, and how strong our expectations about it are.

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I wonder if it’s the ongoing library scans/refreshes in the background which are causing the hub to get refreshed every time.
Do you observe the same issue when there is no background library activity?

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It seems to refresh on ANY library scan, not necessarily the library the collection belongs to. So if you have automatic scan enabled, a random movie collection will refresh if you add media to a music library or TV library.

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From my own testing this issue occurs due to a multitude of reasons, but usually its always linked to the server doing something.

  • Single item is added.
  • Metadata is refreshed.
  • Analysis occurs.
  • Clearing the trash, bundles etc

This issue happens when ANY change is detected. When multiple changes are detected? it goes crazy like in the video… even if the changes aren’t directly related to the hubs in question… The video basically shows how often it refreshes when the server does, well, just about anything.

When there’s no background activity, this issue is less apparent but not gone. I haven’t noticed this on the web client because I don’t use it too often, but on my main client (Apple TV), sometimes after viewing an item and I go back to the home screen the hub has refreshed, meaning its in a totally different order and some items have been removed because I have it limited to 6 items

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The collection seems to be “randomized” whenever any client, from any user, connects to the server, or returns to the home screen. I’ve seen the hub “re-randomize” for no apparent reason (that is, no scan in progress, etc) but soon after, the activity icon/dashboard shows someone is playing a video.

Hmmm… wonder if we’re all getting the same “randomized” items… :thinking:

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