Support for audiobooks

I’ve always felt like proper audiobook support is so close. This might be repeating what others have said but here’s what I think might be missing:

  • Proper chapter support by using either embedded info in a m4b files, external metadata (if that’s a thing), or by intelligently parsing mp3 files that are already broken into chapters
  • Progress syncing, I have metered cell service. Please allow me to download the audiobook to the phone at home over wifi, but sync my listening progress/status to the Plex server over cell service. That way, I can play via my tablet or web page at home, and resume when I’m away, without streaming over cell. (Maybe this already works?)
  • Metadata and organization considerations. In same way way that both TV and Movie files are both video, but are organized differently, music and audiobooks, while both sound files, should to be organized and tagged differently. Audiobooks have authors, narrators, titles, chapters, etc. I think the basic tagging agents already mostly work.
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Firstly, I would like to thank the Pex employees for taking an active interest in this topic. I, personally, do appreciate this.

My circumstances for wanting an improved handling of audiobooks within Plex are (from what I have read in the comments to this thread) rather non-standard.

I have been collecting audiobooks for my media collection for some years, mostly so that as my mother’s sight fails, I will have them on hand in a format that she can use. Currently she is only classed as partially sighted and can use the Plex app on a tablet. How long this remains the case is yet to bee seen. Personally, although I am sure that the add-on apps are excellent at what they do, I do not actually want to have to rely on yet another app to access my audio books within my media server. I know that long term, the audiobooks will need to be individually transferred to a USB stick for use on my mother’s RNIB audiobook player.

Currently my “Audiobook” library consists of a mix of audiobooks and audio drams with a sprinkling of other items mixed in. I personally believe that the major difference between how most people handle audiobook type media and music comes down to the fact that you would not go into an audio book library and hit shuffle. While this would probably work OK for most music libraries, the resulting confusion would not be meaningful in an audiobook library. These would normally be played from start to finish, most likely with breaks in the middle as some of the “albums” can be extremely long.

Personally, I am in the process of transferring the files from the original CDs that I have. Until last moth, I did not actually have any audiobooks on M4B format, which would, from prior comments, be the preferred audio formant to most of those commenting. Taking the files directly off the original CDs I have a number of files per disc for each audiobook. This number ranges from a single file per CD to up to 99 files per CD (for some of those produced in the late 90’s). I also have audiobooks with between 1 and 20 CD in the book. This gets rather complicated to remember where in the audiobook you have listened up to as there is currently no way in the base application to see what has or has not been listened to.

I have come to accept that I will need to manipulate the files as I produce them to go into the current system in a meaningful manor and to ensure that different recording of the same subject material are listed as separate items. If is most confusing when the system tries to merge an audio book of Agatha Christy with the Radio Dramatisation as a single entity. Unfortunately, a large number of the audio books that I add to my server do not appear in any of the on-line databases at time or ripping and of those that do, quite often not all discs are listed. This will inevitably lead to items that will be difficult to correctly match data for, but hopefully not be as much of an issue if just matching basic information, such as author and book title.

What I would like to see mote than anything is for the main app to have a category for audiobook type media that shows what has been listened to and allows the user to continue from where they left off.

Beyond this, I would be helpful if the pool of “author” that was pulled from to match was largely restricted to just author, rather than the full pool of musicians that the current music system defaults to, to avoid autocorrection from a know author to an little know musician.

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Firstly thank you all for your feedback and list of features!

While I am still working to see if/when we could add this to our Personal Media roadmap, I wanted to take a stab at summarising what minimum changes would be needed to Plex Media Server to improve things as they are today;

  • Audiobook library type with book-related metadata fields (Narrator, Author, Series, Publisher)
  • Local metadata agent (sidecar xml files and/or reading M4B metadata)
  • Recognising the chapters embedded in M4B files
  • Save progress at book level (like which track in album/chapter in file)
  • Support for books with an audio file per chapter
  • Progress syncing (much like watched progress for videos)
  • Client support (Plexamp? Mobile apps? Plex Web?)

One item not in the list above is online metadata for Audiobooks. 3rd party agents such as Audiobooks.bundle pull from a non-public Audible API. My understanding is we would not be able to do this without an agreement to use an offical API.

Perhaps this could be an “Advanced” library type that only supports local metadata (embedded/sidecar XML) as a solution to not having an online source?

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Hey @chrisallen.
Thanks for reading and taking many of our thoughts into consideration.
Your summary sounds great to me!!
If it’s not feasible for plex to implement an online metadata agent, I believe having audiobooks as an “advanced” library with local metadata support sounds like a good alternative.
Thanks

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Sounds good!

Regarding metadata, it seems like Audnexus API wants to create an open database for audiobooks. Might be something to keep an eye on in the long term. AudiobookDB closed alpha testing · Issue #689 · laxamentumtech/audnexus · GitHub

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Hi everyone! :wave:

I guess we have @chrisallen to thank for kicking the hornets nest here :rofl: Please know that I am 1000% joking here as he and I discussed jumping in and being a part of this discussion up front. What I can say with all joking aside is that audiobooks are near and dear to my own heart and were the one thing I asked about in my first interview here at Plex years ago - when are we getting actual audiobook support?

So I am taking copious amounts of notes from this thread and wanted to jump in here and say thank you to all who are contributing to the discussion! This is great stuff and it IS being heard.

The other thing I can do is to share a bit of my own use case here. I do a bit of pre-processing and end up with a single, non-chapterized mp3 for my audiobooks. I have tried most of the apps and servers out there as well as most guides for listening via Plex. Before I started here, I was driving 45+ minutes one way to work and also doing a lot of walking over my lunch breaks. This allowed me to churn through books at a pretty high rate (listening at 1.5x+ also helps). The past few years this has slowed a little bit, but I still manage to find time while walking my dogs.

I think there are 3 main areas that we will have to figure out how to tackle here, and they are well reflected in the comments in this thread:

  • metadata: how do we effectively match titles and pull down ancillary data?
  • server & format support: how do we handle chapterized files from different formats, libraries on Plex Media Server, and things like syncing up playback status?
  • client support: what/where is the best place to handle playback so that it handles the specific features that audiobooks need vs other forms of audio entertainment?

While we work to consider all of this input, I would like to thank you all again for taking the time to share your use case and feedback!

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I worked with VLC and Kid3 to get m4b chapters implemented, I did testing, not coding but
kid3 (latest release ver I use ver 3.9.5, uses Mp4v2Metadata to read and edit m4b metadata including chapter data.

I use Kid3 on Windows, Mac and Linux It lets you edit where chapters are in the file, it could be handled better but it works well enough

VLC 4 can also now read m4b metadata but they hide the data and I am having a mental block after midnight and can’t remember where

I tend to extract/edit my metadata for audiobooks before needing a metadata service to retrieve the data for me, it is all in my m4b file

I have the following metadata in my audioboos:
Title
Artist
Album
Comment
Date
Track Number (for m4b single file books this is not needed)
Album Artist
Composer (I store the narrator here)
Language
Description
Picture cover (front) - used for the cover art
Chapters (kid3 lets you edit each chapter here, including the start time, end time and text for each chapter) the final chapter is an end of book marker without any text for the chapter…
Sort Album Artist
Sort Album
Sort Artist
Performer (I store narrator here too)

mp3 files do not have chapter data
m4a files I think do have the ability to store chapter data in the same format as m4b files

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Not exclusively. Most of my audiobooks are ripped from CD, and the files aren’t always ‘per chapter.’ Occasionally it’s one file/chapter. More often it’s several files/chapter, and in some cases the files aren’t related to chapter breaks at all. In one case that I can think of, each file is roughly 3 minutes in length, and the chapter may change mid-file (what were they thinking?).

I’m fully in favor of local metadata support, whether there’s an online source or not. For me, it’s just like music. My books are fully tagged (embedded). I would much prefer local tags, whether they are embedded or in sidecar files. If it’s easier to omit online support altogether, that would have little or no effect on me.

The ID3 tags defined for .mp3 music should be easily usable:

  • Composer (TCOM) = Author
  • AlbumArtist (TPE2)* = Author
  • TrackArtist (TPE1) = Narrator
  • Grouping (TIT1) = Series
  • Label (TPUB) = Publisher

*As I’ve noted WRT music, the ID3 spec doesn’t really have an “Album Artist” tag. Most apps, including Plex, have re-purposed the TPE2 tag. Why fight it?

The above are, of course, in addition to tags like disc #, track #, Sort Order fields, genre, etc.

There should be support for books written by multiple authors, as well as books read by multiple narrators. This, of course, is a very old failing for Music libraries. Now’s your chance to fix that. :slight_smile:

chapters in m4b files are markers that can have text assigned to them for specific lengths of audio in a single file, These are often used for whole chapters but can be used for other things like marking every 10sec of audio if you want, the term Chapter in m4b files is what it is called as the format was designed for audiobooks…

here is chapter data extracted using kid3 for one of my audiobooks, the final entry that is just a timestamp is the end of the book

[00:00.00]Opening Credits
[00:14.45]Introduction
[06:33.07]Chapter 1: Leaving
[52:39.03]Chapter 2: Twoshirts and Two Noses
[1:20:38.79]Chapter 3: A Single-Minded Lady
[2:04:29.48]Chapter 4: The PLN
[2:44:30.98]Chapter 5: The Circle
[3:12:15.46]Chapter 6: The Hiver
[3:44:29.96]Chapter 7: The Matter of Brian
[4:24:47.18]Chapter 8: The Secret Land
[5:07:39.87]Chapter 9: Soul and Centre
[5:33:28.71]Chapter 10: The Late Bloomer
[6:07:59.49]Chapter 11: Arthur
[6:44:30.06]Chapter 12: The Egress
[7:00:04.01]Chapter 13: The Witch Trials
[7:12:33.76]Chapter 14: Queen of the Bees
[7:29:52.79]Chapter 15: A Hat Full of Sky
[7:37:37.40]Author’s Note
[7:38:57.10]End Credits
[7:39:10.42]

Just a quick message to thank you for your interest ! Having a big collaborative community is an opportunity in app development, and I’m glad you try to exploit this goldmine.

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@chrisallen @McWanke

Wow. I had given up on the possibility of Plex ever implementing official audiobook support.

  • One thing I really would like is inline/nested collections. I would like my Plex Library’s Album view to have a single entry for Harry Potter; The Lord of the Rings; The Wheel of Time; A Song of Ice and Fire; Women’s Murder Club; et al. Just like inline collections are handled in TV Show and Movie libraries.

    • Related to that, I would like audiobook collection covers to support square covers.
  • I would also like both the track/chapter progress and the book progress to be shown in the Now Playing UI.

  • Regarding embedded chapter marks in m4b audiobooks, there is a problem in that two formats for embedded chapters exist: Nero, and QuickTime. Most software I have encountered only utilizes one or the other, and it’s not always the same format.

    • An example case: I had a single-file m4b audiobook. I edited the embedded chapter titles in mp3tag. Media Player Classic detected my tags; Audiobookshelf did not. The dev of Audiobookshelf says it uses ffprobe to detect chapters. So apparently, ffprobe reads QT chapters not Nero chapters; mp3tag edits Nero chapters not QT chapters. I’m not aware of any software that 1) has a GUI and 2) edits embedded QT chapters in m4b files.

    As a result of this, I track-split all my audiobooks by chapter, because tagging track titles is a better solution for me. I’m just letting you know, if you’re going to support embedded chapters (which you certainly should), you’re probably going to get support tickets regarding embedded chapter marks not being read, when the user edits chapters using the format you don’t support. …Unless you could tell the Plex server to specify what chapter format you want its scanner to look for.

EDIT: I have discovered that ffprobe can actually detect both types of embedded chapters; and that mp4chaps can create chapter marks and convert between one type and the other.

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I have been stuggling to find tagging software that edits embedded QT chapters. Are you saying kid3 does?

be nice but also for mp3 format as well.

This is how I’d like it I recently just began adding some audio books my brother has requested them.

I didn’t really add them before because Plex doesn’t really quite support them yet, But I’d like to see support for audio books, Plex does seem to see it as audio books finds the author and the books but that’s about it It’ll find the book and the artwork for it but after that no chapters Plex can easily scan through the files to create chapter like it does for movies and tv shows, and it wouldn’t matter if it’s an MP3 or an M4B file.

The way it should be instead is find the author and the book series and group the books in with the series so you’ll have separate books with chapters with the artwork like Hell Divers for example I haven’t set it up for more book by that Arthur yet but whom is Nicholas Sansbury Smith so I get the series like this i.e.:

Then I have other books like The Bosch and Lincoln Lawyer series by Michael Connelly

I had to separate the books by making them into a new Album instead of how I got Hell Divers and I will need to do the same if I get any other audio books from that author. By creating a Bosch and Lincoln Lawyer Album I began separating the books into Discs like Disc 1, Disc 2, Disc 3, and etc.

Which makes me lose any artwork of the books now like in the screen shot below.


If they add audio book support to plex with a separate Library just for them I’d like the first example like I got with Hell divers

with the author portrait’s like this.

and custom artwork for the books series like we would get with a TV show and treat each book in a series like as if they were seasons Plex then scans the books and creates chapters and lists them below like episodes on a tv show.

If you’re treating a book (album) as a seson then the individual disks or tracks should be the episode. If you’re comparing it to video plex doesn’t scan the file then add chapters as episodes. Doing what you’re suggesting would involve additional development work and confues matters for books that contain multiple files.

E.g my in my use case Doctor Who: Ravenous 1 is the album, disk 1 “Their Finest Hour” is the first episode in the season. In my case its an m4b. Going as disk = episode would make things easier for people using mp3s. The chapter markers within the episode would then be the chapter markers from the M4b, or each mp3 file.

This makes me so angry every time I bang my head against it.

See, the container format wars is exactly why I stick with .mb4.

I’m not arguing with everyone and anyone over a different book file format when there’s a specific reason .mb4 does what it needs to despite being an Apple container. I’m on a Mac environment where I can make adjustments and I’m sticking to it.

See, the container format wars is exactly why I stick with .mb4.

.m4b*.
.mp4 is a container that can contain music, audiobooks, or video. certain file extensions specify which type is being used. m4a is for audio/music; m4b is for audiobooks; m4v is for video. If you just use .mp4, the software you’re using figures out what’s inside the container.

this is a great list and to expand on client support and metadata: anything that works with carplay is fine in my book (though I do prefer plexamp), and I don’t personally care if I would need to edit metadata for audiobooks manually if plex can’t buy this access somewhere.

also: thank you for listening and responding to these ancient requests, I think most people appreciate it!