Apple tv 4k, keeps playing 2mbit, bandwidth clearly available

Plex Media Server Remote Access
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Server Version#: Version 1.18.4.2171 (win 2012r2 server)
Player Version#: apple tv 4k, tvos 13, latest plex app

I realize bitrate is chosen by the plex client, so in this case (in all cases with default apple tv app plex settings), im assuming its the plex tvos client to blame-

I constantly see friends streaming from my server with apple tvs at 2mbit, transcoding HD->SD. Ive always known that more bandwidth is available (from my plex server to the plex client). In a few cases im able to definitively prove this, as im able to run a bandwidth test p2p (from their router, to my router).

additionally, i can test this within plex, by using my plex pass account, at their location, to download a raw video file from my plex server (and seeing how fast that goes).

So why do i often see this image/case below with 2mbit + SD apple tv clients?? (you can see that buffering is working properly, and coincidentally that there is much more than 2mbit available.

My plex server is run on a business class 250m/250m fiber line (not that that matters if the path between client and my server is bad or congested. but in several cases im able to confirm that the path is about perfect, and way more than 2mbit is available.

(ports are properly open, and as you can see these connections are not being tunneled through plex AWS, they are direct connections)

All of my content in plex is HD or better, so you can see why this is very frustrating.

thanks

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Are you 100% sure you’re not connecting through Relay?

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If you haven’t got it restricted server-side, have your friends double check their clients to ensure they haven’t restricted it to 2 Mbps there. In the Plex client’s video settings, check the “Internet Streaming” setting.

Also, you didn’t mention it specifically, but make sure you don’t have your server’s remote bandwidth restricted. In Settings -> Remote Access:

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I just got done going through my parents Roku TV Plex client settings to verify this very issue. I have my remote settings on my plex server set to 4Mbps, 720p as I am only serving up 720p files. HOwever, we both have plenty of upload/download speed even when streaming. However, my remote clients are transcoding all the files down to 2mbps. Even in a test I set my Plex server Internet Streaming video quality to Maximum and set their client to Original. Restarted server and client and still all the video was transcoded down to 2mbps. This is frustrating to them as the video quality is producing a very poor image. To further test I had another family member test with his 4K Apple TV and remotely it produced the same 2mb trancode issue. Most of my files are encoded at 3mbps 720p so while I’m setup for 4mbps 720p remote all these files should be direct streaming as I have “Play smaller videos at original quality” checked. I have also tested with the beta “Automatically adjust quaility” but produced very incosistant results so I’m waiting on that option a bit longer. So in the end is there a config file or something I can manually tweak on the plex server to break through this 2mbps remote limit? Thanks for your all help and info. Merry Christmas!

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Thanks for all the replies, here are some answers:

Are you 100% sure you’re not connecting through Relay?

Yes im sure, this is clear in the screenshot i posted in my orginal post (if it was going through plex’s relay it would show “indirect” (which it does not).

If you haven’t got it restricted server-side, have your friends double >check their clients to ensure they haven’t restricted it to 2 Mbps there

thanks, this is a legit concern, however with quite a few clients i have verified/checked this. However (and this is somewhat the main point of my post), is that a majority of my Plex users (fam and friends) are very non-technical thus they are using the default/stock ATV or Roku plex app settings. Most don’t even know how to change these settings on their client side.

My point of this post is Plex needs to increase the default/stock settings on their client apps (higher default streaming quality/megabits), or somehow figure out a way that the server can have some input (or server-side setting) that sets/communicates to the client the speed they should TRY first (not just a Global/Total MAX upload limit we can set server side, as is currently the case).
I’m not talkin about the “automatically adjust quality setting” on the client side, that is not stable and more importantly often doesn’t even end up increasing the bandwidth of the transcode the client uses.
I have even had to make screen-cap videos to send to friends on how to adjust the clients default quality. This is totally unacceptable and most likely the best option for now is the Plex devs need to increase the default quality on the client side. Even setting the default to 4mbit would be a big quality increase (although i would like to see much more).

Cubfan3
thanks, i have seen this same issue across every version of PMS i have updated to (going back as long as i can remember). This is something plex devs need to fix/address. The more people that reply / confirm this, the more likely plex will look at/address it.

While i have usually had the server-side “Internet Upload Speed” setting, set to 0 , i have tried setting it to 10mbit below the max of my fiber line. This made no difference/had no effect on this problem. (posting SS below just incase though):
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thanks

1 Like
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Yeah I can understand this is super frustrating. I’d try a few more tests to isolate the problem:

  • try with or without secure connections
  • does it only occur with client apps (Roku/AppleTV) or also with the web client through https://app.plex.tv ?
  • does it also happen when you connect directly by browser through https://[ip-nr]:port/web/ ?
  • try encoding a test movie that every client will be able to direct play (ie, MP4 container, H.264 high profile, level 4.0, only AAC audio, no subs), does it still happen?
  • does it also happen when using another server behind the same connection? (just install plex temporarily on yr laptop or something, put 1 movie on it)
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Thanks Certurna! i actually have covered most of your suggestions:

try with or without secure connections

no go on this, as with anything but secure connections “enabled/forced” ALL users get tunneled, incorrectly. You can see info on this in my prior post below: Secure = prefered, then everyone gets Indirect (2mbit limit!) - #8 by jo2jo

does it also happen when you connect directly by browser through https://[ip-nr]:port/web/ ?

I do need to specifically test the web PLAYER from friends house, like you suggest. However i can say this for sure:
1- When i see (from my server/dashboard) users using their web browser, it does seem like that helps increase bw/improve this issue. (although its rare to see this, as almost all of my friends use a roku/apple tv as their player).
2- I have used the web gui at friends houses to initiate a “raw file download”, just to confirm that bandwidth through plex (and our respective internet connections, is sufficient). It always is btw, as i frequently have seen 150+ mbit downloads of raw video files via the plex gui (ie “download file” in web gui), at friends homes.
some friends even do “download file” on a regular basis, and then play-back the raw file via other apps)

try encoding a test movie that every client will be able to direct play (ie, MP4 container, H.264 high profile, level 4.0, only AAC audio, no subs), does it still happen?

Not really relevant, as direct play is not something i have issues with (ie i do see my friends streaming as “direct play” , when the codecs / player being used line-up properly. (ie direct play is working fine when its possible. Going back to me confirming that this is not a bandwidth issue, ive even seen friends direct playing movies at 10+ mbits and have confirmed with them that the stream ran great).

does it also happen when using another server behind the same connection? (just install plex temporarily on yr laptop or something, put 1 movie on it)

While i haven’t tried this recently, about 8-12 months ago, i upgraded my entire setup (and i mean all of it). From the plex server HW + OS (win2012 r2), to my disks (some local, some via 10g freenas, 110 TB+ in all of plex vids, also plex DB on enterprise nvme) , to my switches + ISP even. However when back on my old setup/hardware, i constantly struggled with this same issue. It does seem to be a bit more frequent now with PMS releases over the past year (but this issue has always haunted me, going back years now). Its also more apparent now, as im sharing with quite a few more friends (ie ~8 before, now ~15-20)

I do appreciate the reply, and will try doing web gui player from some friends homes.
Overall though, this is still something plex devs need to address/fix. I mean forgetting everything else, there clearly is some reason that 2mbit is the most common “transcode” rate/throughput all of us are constantly seeing, regardless of the client type/ISP our clients are using… that 2mbit is being set a default SOMEwhere (and i think its in these various plex client apps, plex puts out!).
Anyone know how to get the attention of plex devs?

I have one really clear, direct question for them (plex devs)

  • With a latest HW model apple tv + latest plex TvOS client app (no plex app settings changed, at all)
  • and assume on the server side assume latest PMS server (stream bw set to unlimited, ports opened so not indirect, and a 50 or 100mbit upload link from ISP)
  • stream/Connection is NOT local, so is a remote connection.
  • Video being stream is 1080p , 20mbit bitrate in a codec such that transcodeing is required given the apple tv hardware:

What determines the the speed/bitrate , and resolution , at which this stream will be transcoded/sent ?

(and if the answer is- its the client side plex app that determines it, is there a default/stock bitrate the client requests?)

(phew, long post, i know)
tks

edit- and btw, as i was finishing up typing this, 2 ppl streaming, one at a atrocious 1mbit SD, the other at a better 4mbit. the 4mbit is someone i walked though enabling the enhanced player, and had to unfortunately give them my own admin/ plexpass account. as before, you can clearly see the bandwidth is there (on the spikes, thats a minute or 2 of pre-loading/buffering, but it shows the bw is there, just not being used). fwiw, cpu usage on my hoss server is at its max showing ~30% with these 2x encodes running;

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I mean making an all-MP4 test file to try to pinpoint where this goes wrong. Does Plex think: “this movie cannot be direct played because of wrong video/audio formats so it needs to be transcoded - which then happens at too-low bitrates” or does it think “the bandwidth is too small, it needs to be transcoded to low-bitrate video”?

That insecure connections get tunnelled in your case is very odd though. I can totally see how this is super frustrating.

By the way do your clients and server both have IPv6? Perhaps worth trying to set up that route, it’s not super easy in Plex unfortunatly but if you do get that to work, at least you don’t have NAT to deal with.

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interesting thread over here (im not sure yet if its related, as they are having issues with the plex web based client, but it does show an overall trend of an issue):

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