As we all know DVD/Blu-ray Movies and TV shows are not able to be ripped for home/personal use legally (in US at least). I’ve always wondered if Plex could help turn this around by showing that their is a legitimate reason to have your legally owned media be used in other ways inside your home that don’t lead to piracy. I think this is a serious issue Plex could help with but I don’t know if they have thought about this?
I still find it ridiculous how Music CD’s are able to be ripped for home use but yet Movies/TV shows don’t get the same treatment. I think their definitely needs to be more discussion about this because ripping blu-rays/DVD’s for home use with Plex shouldn’t be considered against the law.
Do you think Plex could change the way this is legislated? Interested to hear your thoughts Developers and the Community here.
No. The DMCA does not allow any copies to be made, period. There is no way that Plex could ever influence the MPAA (major supporter of the DMCA) or any lawmaker to change fair-use. Why would any movie studio want you to make a copy of a movie - that is lost revenue.
@kegobeer-plex said:
No. The DMCA does not allow any copies to be made, period. There is no way that Plex could ever influence the MPAA (major supporter of the DMCA) or any lawmaker to change fair-use. Why would any movie studio want you to make a copy of a movie - that is lost revenue.
I beg to differ because Plex is well known and probably the #1 media service for home media. The influence they could have would be huge for those who want copies for home use.
Also how is it lost revenue for studios? You purchased the movie and want to view it in your home without inserting the disk. Nobody looses any revenue when you are using Plex and your ripped movies for home use. It’s no different than having a movie night with the actual blu-ray disk. Every single person watching doesn’t own the disk but are viewing it. So in this case blu-ray disk vs rip doesn’t make a difference in revenue.
@kegobeer-plex said:
No. The DMCA does not allow any copies to be made, period. There is no way that Plex could ever influence the MPAA (major supporter of the DMCA) or any lawmaker to change fair-use. Why would any movie studio want you to make a copy of a movie - that is lost revenue.
I beg to differ because Plex is well known and probably the #1 media service for home media. The influence they could have would be huge for those who want copies for home use.
Also how is it lost revenue for studios? You purchased the movie and want to view it in your home without inserting the disk. Nobody looses any revenue when you are using Plex and your ripped movies for home use. It’s no different than having a movie night with the actual blu-ray disk. Every single person watching doesn’t own the disk but are viewing it. So in this case blu-ray disk vs rip doesn’t make a difference in revenue.
Movie studios don’t care about any media playback company. Period. How big of a company do you think Plex is? Thousands of employees with annual revenues in the billions? No, they are a small company that produces a good product, but to assume they can influence the legal system, or the movie studios, is not at all realistic in my opinion.
Movie studios are money making juggernauts with huge political lobbying pockets. They do not want their property copied under any circumstances. And yes, it’s their property - you merely have permission to watch the disc. There is a reason they lobbied and lobbied to get the DMCA passed, and it’s not because they want to give homes the ability to freely watch their products.
One final thought - suppose Plex decides to make a stand and get things changed. How much litigation do you think they will face when a single Plex user is found to have pirated content or is sharing their media beyond what they think is appropriate? Since it’s laughably easy to spot (just look at the posts in these boards, with the file names that obviously come from torrent sites) Plex would be buried in legal proceedings and be forced to close down. And if you think any other company will rush to their defense, you should take a look at the history of Napster.
No, there is no way any company can influence movie studios and convince them allowing copies of their property is a good idea, and no way any company will get the DMCA amended to allow it.
@MovieBuff44 said:
I beg to differ because Plex is well known and probably the #1 media service for home media.
I would guess Kodi is still larger in terms of users. And iTunes larger still. iTunes also has DRM media that restricts it’s use to just a single device or account.
And even rolling those two apps in with Plex, the moneys involved still wouldn’t be enough to affect changes in the laws. It’s like a raindrop in the ocean.
First to be precise.
The Fair Use Act makes it legal to make any copy of any disk you own for backup purposes.
What Hollywood was able to do was lobby for the passing of DMCA. DMCA does NOT preclude the Fair Use Act and DMCA does not make it illegal to copy Blu-Rays.
The sneaky way Hollywood made it illegal thru DMCA was to make it illegal to “Break” copy protection.
So if you have any DVD or Blu-Ray NOT copy protected you can knock yourself out copying it.
The argument Hollywood lawyers used to get DMCA passed was the analogy of the lock on your home’s door.
Copy protection is analogous to that lock on your door. It is breaking and entering if someone defeats that lock and enters your house, mostly illegal… LOL So look at DRM as the lock on the “Media Door” thus defeating it is illegal for the same theory.
You have to give Hollywood lawyers credit that they were able to convince the courts with that argument!!!
Therefore, If you rip by defeating copy protection… NOW you have broken the law.
LOL
But in real terms, it is illegal to rip most Blu-Rays for that reason…
Pretty slick on Hollywood’s power and ability to get by the Fair Use Act…
BTW, this is in US Only as far as I know.
Just wanted to help clear the details up in case nobody knew the real reason ripping media is considered bad…
BTW… There is a continuing effort by many groups to get that aspect of DMCA changed. But Hollywood has sooo. much money, most efforts will fail.
I remember writing a paper on the DMCA for English in 9th grade. You all just brought back so many memories. That was 1999. I’m 31 now. I took mp3 list requests from kids at school, used Napster, Kazaa, whatever it was back then. Showed up with the CD burned and got $5 each. Like every day. Oh my goodness that was a fun time.
While I read over on the Plex Cloud section looking at the concerns of those users, I think Plex should at least start a conversation in this area. Essentially all of the Plex Cloud hassle that users face with storing legally converted mkv’s of films/TV shows they own, could be null and void if Plex pushed for reasonable legislation for fair use and format shifting. It happened for music with cd’s so no reason it can’t happen for blu-ray etc. Companies like Plex just have to be willing to put it out there and start the dialog.
Everything starts with an idea no law ever got changed just because someone said NO the first time. If people at DMCA see a legitimate reason to format shift for home media use (Like Plex) I don’t think you can argue against that.
If 4K UHD blu-rays are able to be format shifted for home use as well as all blu-rays and dvd’s, do you know how that could potentially increase movie and tv show sales? If this is brought to the attention of these people and they see profit, these laws will be changed.
Plex is essentially for users who format shift legally purchased media anyway. Plex has no reason to exist otherwise because they don’t offer content and you can’t play Movies/Tv Shows you buy from other digital outlets because of DRM. So if this is not addressed I potentially see Plex being shut down if the right people decide to go after them.
It may not be a fun conversation but it is one that needs to happen. Especially the bigger Plex becomes.
@kegobeer-plex Blu-rays are for home use and that’s the reason movie studios release blu-rays and DVD’s. If they didn’t want you watching the films/TV shows in your home they would not release them on disk. Format shifting to view them on a home media server in no way losses revenue because 1) you still have to legally purchase the movie/Tv show in order to format shift and 2) you have to keep a copy of the movie/Tv show if you plan to keep the backup.
Like I said above, how does Plex validate it’s usefulness if format shifting purchased blu-ray/dvd remains illegal? Nobody has any reason to use Plex if format shifting remains illegal.
One of the problems with format shifting and having media available electronically in any kind of streaming format (even if it is streaming to your own devices for your own use), is that unless you have purchased a version licensed for streaming (like the streaming content providers have, or like you have if you have an UltraViolet copy or whatnot), there is no way to verify that you actually own a physical copy of the disk without physically going into your house and finding the disk (and even then, they only know that you are in possession of it, not that you actually OWN it).
That being said, I think the MPAA are a bunch of greedy, controlling jackrabbits. It wouldn’t be that hard–especially with access to the massive funds they have–to develop a format of HD movies that could plug right into Plex (similar to some of the digital copies they have now, but less under their draconian level of control). I would much rather buy something like that, since I just rip every disk immediately into Plex anyway, so it would save me a lot of time and ensure I have all the extras I want. But they are control freaks, and greedy, and refuse to work with other-format watchers as long and as far as they can.
What benefit is it to them as a company? They are a for profit entity… I see no reason for them to want to even get involved with this kind of legal crapshoot and don’t blame them one bit for staying clear.
Netflix is pretty big… even they have to wrap DRM on everything…
