Forced subs broken

Server Version#:every release for a few months up to latest
Player Version#:Apple TV version up to date

Forced subtitles are completely ignored now no matter the settings on account (yes I’ve gone through every variation and it don’t work) I downgraded back to an older version of plex media server and they work again so I don’t think it’s the player it’s definitely the server. Can this get fixed please? It’s really annoying and I feel the bugs lately are getting worse, first the specials now forced subs.

I’ve just been watching a show with forced subtitles over the weekend and they played fine. Would you mind sharing some more details about your setup, e.g. specific versions, on what platform are you running your Plex Media Server, what Type of subtitles are those (embedded vs. external, text vs. image based)?

As for

What variations were that and what’s your current configuration?

Set default language to Japanese, have the subtitles forced on the 2nd track with both tracks set to English, it’ll skip the forced and default to the first track. And by variations I’m talking about the subtitle options such as prefer forced etc in the account section. This is definitely an issue as downgrading with the exact same settings is perfectly fine.

This is specifically anime which has multiple audio streams and multiple subtitles with one of them being forced and the other not forced but both set to English.

Audio 1 :English
Audio 2: Japanese
Subtitle 1: English non forced
Subtitle 2: English forced

Settings are prefer forced subtitles and default to English Subs with Japanese audio.

It ignores the forced tag from subtitle 2 and just defaults to subtitle 1. Changing the subtitle and audio settings makes 0 difference and subtitle 2 will not load with the forced tag. Downgrading to plex server 1.21 fixes the issue.

I’ve also never had this issue and have 30,000 episodes of anime and have run the server since 2010. This literally broke while I was watching anime, it came up to update I did the update and then it stopped working so it’s definitely that as I don’t mess around with my settings.

It’s also defaulting to track 1 for subtitles whether that be forced or non forced which might be why it didn’t cause you an issue, try playing something with track 2 or 3 etc set to forced with dual audio.

From what I’ve seen / remember that’s how Plex handles forced subtitles… they’re designed to contain the foreign audio segments related to the matching audio (e.g. if you’re watching an English movie and suddenly the blue-skinned aliens start speaking their native language). If you set different languages for audio and subtitles, Plex will show the regular/full subtitles instead

Why does it work fine on the older versions then? I downgraded and don’t have the issue. I won’t upgrade until this gets fixed as every time I do it breaks it. There is literally 0 way for anime sub watchers with Japanese audio to watch forced English subs after the last update. It’s a very specific setting type so unless you watch with these specific settings and for this specific reason you might not be able to recreate it.

What you’re describing is an odd mix and not how I watch anime - forced subs are for default audio language - so maybe some clarification is needed here.

I watch anime in Japanese but with full subs because I can’t speak Japanese so I need the full sub track. Do you speak Japanese but want English forced subs for text and signs? That’s my assumption based on what you’re describing - and I’m not sure how you manage native English content with that setting (guessing as long as it doesn’t have a Japanese audio track it’ll just play English but you won’t get forced English subs for Orcs or Na’vi) - but it’s not clear and not how most folks watch foreign language content. *Not saying your way is wrong, just different than typical.

With this setting, you’re saying you want native Japanese language and English subs but forced would only trigger for Japanese subs flagged as forced because forced subtitles match the audio language. The forced is to put non-default language audio into default language text.

Split multiple language settings are hard to manage and I’ve seen other similar posts about foreign language content for native speakers of multiple languages. Since “forced” is an aspect of matching to the default audio selection, trying to get forced to automatically trigger for mismatched language tracks just isn’t going to work. In some cases, folks would create other user profiles with different language settings to get different default language options automatically but you can’t get Plex to know you want a language mismatch on purpose.

Three options I can see working for you.

Easiest to me would be if you select the mismatch on purpose in Plex and it will remember that setting. I have to do that for tracks that aren’t flagged correctly or I have an anime that has an English audio track that I want to watch subbed instead of dubbed (most of my anime is single audio track in Japanese). Once you set it, it’ll remember to playback that way.

The medium difficult one would be to get an external English forced subs SRT file and re-label it as JAP and Forced and with Japanese set as your default audio, it’ll pick that subtitle track and display English for signs and text for you (though not pretty if you’re expecting SSA subs).

The harder one would be to remux the files and label the embedded subtitle tracks “wrong”. Flag the English forced subs track (for signs and text) as Japanese. With your audio language set for Japanese it will trigger Plex to pick the Japanese forced subs track and show the English text on screen.

Personally I’d go with just flipping the option in Plex manually because remuxing like that would be annoying to me and will also break those files for anybody else wanting to watch them (and will break it for anybody wanting to watch it in English with proper English forced subs). It’ll take less time for me to go through and flip the options in Plex when I add content to my library than it would to go download or remux with incorrectly flagged tracks.

If it was working for you in the past - what might have changed is if the “forced” option in account settings was set to go off the subtitle preference instead of the audio preference. I could see it, in the past, going off the subtitle preference. Personally, if it did that, I’d see that as an incorrect implementation - broken standard - but would have seemed like a functional feature for folks in your situation.

Edit: Just saw your post about having 30,000 episodes… I can see why this change for your assumed situation (Japanese audio with English subs but only for Japanese onscreen text) would suck and in which case I don’t have much of a suggestion for you because it seems a bug was a helpful feature for you.

You have it backwards, I watch Japanese with English full subs not signs, this only applies to dual audio anime episodes that have the full audio set to track 2, if signs are on track one it’ll default to that no matter if it’s forced or not so I deliberately force subs onto the full subs with mkvpropedit as it ignores the default tag and has done for years. What I’m saying is no matter how I change the settings in account and like I said I’ve gone through all of them there is zero way to get plex to load forced subs that aren’t associated with the 1st sub stream.

Also this only causes issue with very specific episodes where the creator of the episode has uploaded signs into the 1st sub slot and full subs into the 2nd, if the full subs are in the 1st slot it’ll work fine, but if it’s the other way around it’ll always load the 1st sub file within the episode no matter what the tags are set to (forced/default) it’ll only load subtitle 1.

You are misunderstanding forced subs or are using the word “forced” in this situation where it’s meaning one thing to you but has a specific technical definition for us and that’s causing confusion.

Forced subs are a specific type of subtitle track … one that only contains subtitles for parts in a movie that aren’t the same language as the default audio language. There is a flag that says “play only these parts”. The term can be confusing because it comes from a disc playback function that doesn’t translate to digital well. See the previous notes in this thread, but “forced” equates to “foreign audio only” in an otherwise native audio language (orcs talking in lord of the rings, Natasha speaking Russian in Black Widow, etc). If you want full subs for media not in your native language, you do not want to be watching the forced subs track and should not be setting the full subs track with the “forced” flag.

I did see another post that a recent update broke subtitle track selection on Roku. Maybe you’re running into a similar issue, but with the way you’ve described your situation and what you’ve done to mismatch file track functions and clearly there’s some confusion here, you might be better off restating the situation after rereading the previous posts about forced subs and language settings and including screenshots and mediainfo and/or example file maybe.

I am not experiencing any trouble with anime playback or subtitle section so just need to pinpoint your specific situation a bit clearer.

Old way
This is how it used to work, it’d default to forced. If I update without changing settings it defaults to signs and songs. (Picture taken from older server version). Also there is no setting that I can select anymore that will default to the forced 2nd track without having to do them all manually.


Here are the settings that worked before for it to default to the forced track. I can literally change the audio to English or Any language and have changed every single drop down menu to every option and it will never select the forced track. If this was a bug they’ve fixed this bug has been in the subs for years hence why I’ve got forced flags on the 2nd track as plex has always ignored the default track. I also have the 2nd track set to default. What I’m saying is no matter the configuration if the subtitle track is the 2nd sub file in the mkv it will always default to the 1st subtitle track, So yeah what you’re saying that your anime works it does for me on most my anime EXCEPT anime where the full subs are on the second track. Unless you have this specific way the subs are placed in the mkv you might not see my problem.

Example of types of anime watcher and outcome:

Japanese or English Audio with normal or forced subs but only 1 sub track. Working.

Dual Audio - subtitle track 1 full subs. (Only 1 sub track) Working.

Dual Audio - subtitle track 1 signs and songs (No forced/No Default) Subtitle track 2 Full subs Forced/default. Not working.

Dual Audio - subtitle track 1 signs and songs, (Forced/Default) Subtitle track 2 Full audio. Working if you watch English Dub.

Dual audio - subtitle track 1 Full subs. subtitle track 2 signs and songs (Forced/default) Not working if a dub watcher.

(Forced/Default) Is referring to the flags enabled within the mkv file using MkvPropEdit

P.S If my comments seem snippy I’m just tired and have trouble talking to people nothing is meant by it.

image
After Updating server this is what happens with the exact same settings also. I am unable to select any setting which will make Plex auto select that second forced track. That is the bug I’m talking about, What’s the point of the forced flag if the server ignores them?

In Plex there is no “forced” content in the literal sense of the word.
In your mind, you need to replace “forced” with “signs/songs/foreign dialogue”.
i.e. your files are tagged pretty much in reverse.

In your use case, you want the “full” subtitle in englisch. Because you want all lines of dialogue and all signs on screen translated.

Unfortunately, Plex cannot handle it if a user is selecting differing preferred languages for audio and subtitles.

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