I predict: Before Warner Brothers/Lionsgate/Other enter the building we’re gonna get a mandated upgrade and there will be no remnants of any past shenanigans.
Well, I have no knowledge of how the Plex Transcoder works, but is it not safe to assume that if mp5 comes out (just around the bend I think) that the current transcoder would likely not fit that bill, rendering that server version incompatible with at least some future media? I mean, I am on the latest version of the server, I did not benefit from the pirated server nonsense… But considering they are hosted in China and other countries without IP laws, them getting raided seems more unlikely than server software becoming obsolete…
MP5 – can you link to that? MP4 is a container, not a codec. If you mean H.265 that’s already a thing, already out, and already supported by Plex. The commercial industry isn’t going to be moving away from H.265 anytime soon because they have an entire optical disc format based on it. Heck, they still put out DVDs and that’s based on 1990s-era video standards.
Streaming isn’t even fully on H.265 yet. The live-action pirating community likes things that save bandwidth, but they also like being able to watch on cheap, older devices. That’s why they held onto their DivX/AVI for so long. So I don’t see IPTV services upgrading to anything further advanced anytime soon. By the time they do the hardware needed to run it will be so cheap you wont care about buying a separate box for every TV in your home.
Mpeg 4 is a specification of which a bunch of codecs comply under its standards… .mp4 is a common container… but MP4 and MP5 are abbreviations used for Mpeg-4 specification and Mpeg-5 Specification…|
https://blog.usejournal.com/introducing-mpeg-5-5ed1de2be71b - I am doing about a dozen things at once right now, but this link will get you started… just search Mpeg 5 Specifications and you get a plethora of things regarding it…
Edit: Here’s the official Mpeg site information on it: https://mpeg.chiariglione.org/standards/mpeg-5
Nobody abbreviates Mpeg-4 standards as “MP4”. Just look at DivX and XviD – they are both technically MPEG4-Part 2 but to the laymen they are either “Divx” or “AVI” (which is, again, just the container format you used to come across them in most). The last time I saw “MP5” in relation to electronics it was a car stereo advertising itself as an “MP5 player”. It didn’t support any new in-development video standards.
MPEG-5 Essential Video Coding (EVC) is a new codec under development in MPEG that promises to become a viable alternative to HEVC.
It wont gain any traction. The industry as a whole is already well into HEVC If you’re talking streaming services you have to consider the silicon. Streaming devices are generally low-performance as far as general computing power. They only work for streaming HD video because they have hardware acceleration for those specific codecs baked in. This is one reason HEVC is taking awhile to become the standard for streaming services: too many older devices that do not have native acceleration for the codec. If you’re going to add EVC to the mix we now have to start all over again gaining a critical mass of cheap devices that support it. The codec wont even be out until next year. Add 3 years or so for new graphics silicon that supports it natively, product design, etc… too late. HEVC is already firmly entrenched by that point. Who wants MP5 now?
Consider cable TV set-top boxes… The cable industry is only just now transitioning off MPEG-2 and over to H.264. Streaming services aren’t going to want to start another transition away from HEVC so soon after getting what are likely to be the last of the H.264 devices “retired” support-wise in a few years. And the makers of the devices are going to follow the (streaming) business when it comes to what to support.
If EVC is going to become a thing to worry about on IPTV, again, your illegal service you’re watching now will likely not even exist (for other reasons) at that point, so there no reason fretting over the state of plug in support. You wont be using Plex to watch it anyway.
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Well, I’m somebody, and I did… and there are others out there who do when they wish to abbreviate something rather than type it out. mp4 itself literally stands for Mpeg-4 just like mp3 literally stands for Mpeg-3. The very extension mp4 is a literal abbreviation for Mpeg-4, but that’s semantics, who wants to argue that…
Is a supposition and not a fact. Even if it doesn’t get picked up by anyone “Major” It will still get used in the same manner in which all other codecs have been used, by users, who find something in it that they like and wish to use… You have a narrow minded viewpoint, which is ok, but you don’t need to project that onto everyone, as you have been doing…
I am not watching any illegal services, I believe you have me confused with someone else in this thread… So please quit making this reference, it’s the second time you’ve done so, though the first was a bit convoluted and could have been an off-handed remark, so I didn’t correct you…
I also find it hilarious that you’re willing to discount Mpeg-5 as a thing before you know really anything about it…
The simple fact is, Mpeg-1 was used for VCD’s (Super popular in Asia and the Middle East at the time), Mpeg-2 was used in SVCD’s, Cable and Broadcast TV, and DVD’s, Mpeg-3 is pretty much used by everyone in the Music industry, Mpeg-4 laid the standards and is used for BluRay, and Mpeg-H (H.265 HEVC) is the 4K UHD standard, developed by the same people, but Mpeg-5, nope, never gonna be a thing according to you…
I’m not talking about you personally, so don’t get triggered. I mean for the sake of this thread where the topic has turned to this very-hypothetical idea that in the future there will be an IPTV service that streams in a codec that is only understood by a newer version of Plex Media Server, a version that also does not support plugins at all.
I’m saying: This illicit service will not be using any codec anytime in the foreseeable future that is not supported by Plex right now. And you come up with “we got this new MP5 stuff coming along” and again I’m like “and how many services will use this new codec in the near future? Zero.” Because PirateTV-A targets people who are running toasters for their PCs and their playback devices are not going to support NewStandard15, heck, most of them can’t play NewerStandard14 yet. If you (collectively – not YOU @JasonNalley) are worried about PirateTV-A changing to NewStandard15 down the road, don’t be. PirateTV-A will be a fond memory on a court docket before that happens.
Now, PirateTV-K, a service no one is using because it has not been started yet, might be using MP5… but by that point you will have no problem buying a 2025 toaster for your TV to watch PirateTV-K on. You will just keep your Plex separate from PirateTV-K service… assuming you’re still using Plex by then. So this whole MuhPlug-Ins!/Transcoding/RunningOldPMS worrying is overblown. As is dropping Plex right now for a reason like that.
Not triggered, not even close. Just felt you needed correcting when you say “you’re watching” and directly speaking to me…
No one is talking about the illicit service using the codec, I was saying that users who would want to take advantage of the codec either with their own media or from pirated content they find and download online, would not be able to take advantage of it when it comes out if the transcoder for the older version of plex cannot render it…
You completely missed what it was that I was talking about and have been arguing a point I wasn’t even making… If the plex transcoder in the OLDER VERSION OF PLEX MEDIA SERVER (which has 0 to do with the pirated streaming sites and the plug-ins that take advantage of them) does not support an Mpeg-5 codec, and the user wishes to continue to use plex for what it’s actually used for AS WELL AS their pirated streaming service plug-ins, then they’re likely going to be Sh** outta luck… I don’t give a crap about the pirated streaming service plug-ins, nor the people that use them… But you said the fears were unfounded, and I pointed out, they’re not unfounded if Mpeg-5 comes to fruition and they need to make a choice between their pirated streaming services or upgrading plex to be able to use that codec for their own content they host…
I saw your link and I do understand. It’s yet another video codec that’s promising to be better than the current one when it comes to streaming bandwidth. MPEG-LA has made a mess of their own catbox with their stupid H.264 licensing restrictions and it’s come to a point where companies are looking outside the normal players for video formats. A promise of better efficiency (to save operating costs for providers) and less-lame licensing are what is being offered here. But there have been a lot of “we’re going to be the alternative to [incumbant codec]” players that have been forgotten over time. When was the last time you saw a WMV file? How about VC-1 used on an optical disc that was a new mastering and not ported from an older release? The VP- codecs are only still around because they are backed by Google and used on YouTube. So you must understand if I’m taking a “wait and see” attitude towards MP5 and Plex.
Similarly your argument that home users will want to use MP5 is… kinda odd. Hard drive space is cheap, and most people don’t have 10,000 movie collections. HEVC is “good enough” when it comes to home transcoding space. Just like 200-300 kbps VBR MP3’s are “good enough” to get people to stop buying CDs. If a consumer is that worried about picture quality they are doing direct remuxes of their movies – which brings us back to what codecs are on optical discs: not MP5. These same people would also want their media to direct play, so what Plex’s transcoder supports would also not matter, but what their client devices support would. So I’m not seeing why an older version of Plex would not be just fine in this scenario.
So be it? Seriously, does it even need to be a choice? Streaming devices are <$50, and with all the money people allegedly save cord-cutting it’s not breaking the bank to have one for Plex and one for the IPTV service. It’s no different than having to change between a cable TV STB on HDMI-1 and the streaming device for Plex on HDMI-2.
But we’re not talking about JUST the streaming aspect here… We’re talking about User hosted content and what choices a user makes, vs what their “all in one solution” that is plex currently will or won’t be capable of.
It’s not really, that was the same argument made when XviD came out and DiVX was already largely a staple… People found utility in XviD and it eventually stomped all over DiVX, despite the fact that DiVX went through 3 more iterations and “improved” upon itself while XviD remained static… I am not saying ALL home users will use it, I am simply saying there will be enough that will likely use it that it will become a thing… Whether it holds that traction or falls flat on its face remains to be seen, but if it offers a better experience for people than HEVC, and it’s licensing is easier than HEVC’s licensing, I see no reason why it wouldn’t take off, especially in the home market… Just remember, HEVC’s benefits are not just its ability to carry HDR content, where it really shines is further reducing the size of files, and while I am in your same camp that magnetic storage is cheap, If a 40Mbit BluRay file can be the Same quality at 20Mbit (which HEVC allows for), then you’ve doubled your library size on your available hard drive space and any future hard drive space, without spending a dime… I have personally transcoded my entire 3,000 movie and 600 TV Show (Note this is show not episode) library into HEVC because it lets me have more on less…
Maybe that’s part of the issue here. I don’t think of Plex as an All-In-One solution. I find its music player abilities sub-par and run an Airsonic server on the same dataset. The movie/TV playback experience is inconsistent due to varying abilities on different client devices, which is one reason the HTPC people got in such an uproar when Plex tried to axe PMP. If you’re not dealing with HDR it’s actually one of the best clients simply because it has a real video player running underneath and doesn’t try to hand off everything to a streaming device’s limited abilities.
If you’re re-encoding to HEVC (or MP5) you’ve already lost the game as you’ve taken a lossy compression format and re-compressed it, to a format of a different encoding algorithm at that – so you now get two different types of artifacts. It will never be the same quality as the original. You might be able to trick your eyes with a bit of filtering, though. Also, you have to consider your playback clients still. Having a new-hotness codec in your library isn’t worth much if Plex now has to transcode it for playback. That’s now triple lossy encoded. Should have just left it on disk as remuxed AVC and let it direct play.
This is the group of people I am talking about in my debate with you, in case you forgot where this started.
So I am discussing these people. The ones who are not updating their plex, to maintain the ability to use the pirated streaming sites within plex. But who ALSO enjoy their own content on their server.
If this group of people, are faced with “Upgrade PMS to get Mpeg-5 for my personal library, or maintain Plex’s ability to use those plug-ins”… Then it negates what you said here:
This is what I am talking about… I am not talking about the people who are using the illegal IPTV services on other platforms other than plex by buying a secondary streaming stick device, and I am not talking about the illegal IPTV services suddenly using Mpeg-5 rendering their plug-ins obsolete. It’s their content in Mpeg-5, and their ability to still use plug-ins or not.
I definitely understand that, and it’s a personal choice. I am ok with the minor loss in quality (which are imperceptible to me or any of the people I share with at our given viewing distances even without filters) when compared to the space savings it gives. But, every client I have, and every person that I share my server with, Direct Play the H.265 codec without issue, HD Audio is another matter entirely. Added bonus, it uses less bandwidth since it’s at 1/2 the original bitrate, this is especially useful when I compress my 4K HDR content for people to enjoy remotely… Again, a personal choice, 5-7 HDR streams remotely gets a bit crowded on a Gigabit line when left as a Remux… For the odd occasion where something needs to transcode (which at this point is less than 5% of the time), I’ve unlocked my GPU to have unlimited hardware encodes and tested it at 12 simultaneous encodes from 2160 down to 720 and it works without a hitch, even though it’s wholly unnecessary considering the steps I took to get it to be above 95% DirectPlay to begin with…
These things are valuable to me, and a lot of others, even if not valuable to you…
Again, I don’t see how its so damn necessary all this stuff has to go though the Plex Server. Update Plex for MP5 and stick the IPirateTV on Kodi or even another streaming device. Hey, if the Kodi add-on for Plex gets back up to full parity feature-wise you could just use Plex from Kodi and have the IPTV on it, too. There’s your “all in one” solution.
I’m not a plug-in user. I seem to recall Plex has already said they are not removing the metadata/scrapping plug-in support. So can you tell me what not-IPTV related plugins are going to effected by staying current?
Also, one possibility that has not been brought up: there’s no reason you couldn’t run two Plex servers on the same system. One older one with the plug-in support, and then a newer one with MP5 support.
I’ve thought about this when people complain too, I am uncertain what is preventing them from doing so… But let them beat their heads against a wall or wake up and realize this is all they have to do…
I think Plex for Kodi is a PlexPass only feature? I can’t recall… I dislike the Kodi interface, I once upon a time tried to to play my 3D movies when my Sony AndroidTV was failing to recongize the 3D files… Kodi failed too, but my Samsung UHD player does it just fine, so…
Oh, none… I was specifically talking about the people who are wishing to use BOTH the IPTV services, and the latest that plex may have to offer in the future when newer codecs and other things are inevitably released… Although, I did have 2 Scrapers fail on me recently… they don’t even show up in my Scraper lists anymore… despite being in the plug-ins folder… I just don’t bother with them…
I’m going to assume they are on Windows or maybe running direct on Linux, as if they were on Docker or using jails on FreeBSD the setup would be literally “doing it a second time”.
I was talking about the Kodi add-on, not Plex-Connect-for-Kodi or whatever it’s called, in case you were. You can set the add-on to auto-launch when you open Kodi, so you don’t have to mess with the Kodi interface really. I don’t really love the Plex Kodi add-on’s interface myself. But if they ever get UNO ported to it I can see myself using it more than the official Plex app on my Fire Stick 4K, because it direct plays more formats than the Plex app.
Not even sure of the difference to be honest, I used it for like 30 minutes trying something out and then moved on…
Can you give me an example here? I have yet to run into anything either of my FireStick 4K’s cannot DirectPlay (with the exception of HD Audio tracks, and I thought that had more to do with my lack of E-ARC on my TV). I have last generation and the new generation that was just released a month and a half ago to two months ago…
Well, ASS subtitles are the big one for me, because it means video gets transcoded to add them. They have to be embedded, too. External ASS subtitle tracks are completely ignored by the Fire Stick (the client can see them, but they do not play or cause transcoding on the server if you select them, so you just get no subs). These all direct play on the Kodi Plex add-on on the same Fire Stick 4K.
Also AAC 5.1 audio was not working until the release they did just earlier this month (the Fire Stick supports it but there was a bug) – so I guess I can cross that off my list now.
10-bit h264 can be hit or miss. Ironically the player’s lack of support for ASS saves it most of the time (two wrongs make a right). But if it’s using SRT or PGS subs then I have set the Fire Stick to not direct play those sub formats to cause a transcode to watch it.
There was a show I was watching that had Apple Lossless audio on it and the client needed it converted, but in an interesting twist the Plex Server couldn’t transcode it right (stutter/breakup). I just tried that show again now with the newest client and it’s direct playing on the Fire Stick. Audio seems okay, but now video is not playing smoothly. The show plays fine on the Kodi Plex Add-On.
HDR video will not direct play if you have HD audio and subs at the same time. Which makes no sense when it plays fine simply by turning off the subs and the subs are in a format the Fire Stick can direct play.
Gotcha… None of which are my current use case… I moved all of my AC3 5.1 tracks to the first track, or the DTS 5.1 Tracks to the first track, and moved HD Audio to the secondary track, I only use HD Audio when playing it in the room with an HD Audio receiver… and for every single file I have, I have burned in the subtitles for foreign parts, or burned in the subtitles if the entire movie or show is in a foreign language… So Subtitles are no longer an issue for me…
I am going to ask nicely…
Please make this more cordial.
Thanks.
