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The program in question is not important, but serves to illustrate the problem.
I still find myself not fully understanding how Plex’s scanners and agents co-operate (or not), but however I choose, either no match is found or it returns several but not the required one.
A few days ago, I recorded a show ‘Grace of Monaco Hollywood Princess’. There was no auto match. So I try to manually match it - after easily finding it on theTVDB website. But no matter how I search, it is NEVER found.
If 'Plex TV Series (BETA) is the selected Agent, it finds a bunch of stuff, mostly with names that include Grace, but not the correct item. TheTVDB.com lists it with the title ‘Grace of Monaco’ so I search with just that, but it is not in the list of supposed ‘matches’.
If I instead use TheTVDB Agent (which should find it as it exists on TheTVDB.com - indeed their web page for this is open right now), NOTHING is found. Whether I search on ‘Grace of Monaco Hollywood Princess’ or ‘Grace of Monaco’ or using theTVDB’s own ID number for this show. Nope. Nothing. Nada.
As I said, it is not truly important for this particular show, but I’m struggling to understand how matching is failing like this. The program DOES exist on theTVDB.com, I use Plex’s TheTVDB Agent and it is unable to find anything at all.
Assuming its this https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13123146 then its a TV Movie so the TV agents won’t find it. You would need to have it within a movie library type.
I just ran a test and searching for imdb-tt13123146 within a movie library finds it right away.
Ok, I’ll have a go, although Plex provides no way to move items between libraries. However:-
The reality is that this is a one off TV documentary and NOT a Movie which really means a commercially released Movie. It can be a subtle distinction and it appears that needs to be specified when setting up the recording and there’s no way this is going to be confirmed at that time. One can never know how organisations such as TVDB.com, or IMDB etc have decided on this and indeed very likely they do not agree so for the average user simply recording a TV program there’s no chance.
In any case, TheTVDB.com DOES list this exact program and it is easily found on their website. So whatever category others may wish to apply, TheTVDB.com has decided to list it and to my mind that means Plex’s TheTVDB Agent should be able to find it.
@UKenGB you can call it what you want but the scrapper plex use to get its metadata see this as a movie. Does not matter if its a TV movie or a commercial blockbuster. We can debate all you want but it won’t change the fact its a movie and not a TV series so if you want it in plex with good metadata it needs to be in a movie library.
The reason I linked IMDB is that this specific movie/documentary does not seem to have any records on TVDB or TMDB but if you have a link to correct one on TVDB then please supply it here.
In fact the one I found on TVDB.com is NOT what I recorded, but an actual commercial movie release with basically the same title as the TV documentary that I recorded.
In any case, I moved the file into the Movies library and it found the correct item immediately. However…
My point is that this is ultimately a poor process as one HAS to determine, PRIOR to setting up the recording, exactly what category these other organisations think it fits. As far as I’m concerned, this is a TV documentary, the other one I found on TVDB is an actual movie. The potential for confusion is huge.
As I said, this particular item is unimportant, but it illustrates what I consider to be a lack in the Plex DVR recording process. It is clear to me that this is a TV program, but it’s the length of a movie (many such programs are) and has been miscategorised so it will never be found.
I fully understand the need for ‘rules’ in order to allow Plex to run successfully, indeed I have supported that case here on the forums. However in this case, what IS the rule? It is in fact purely that you have to follow what others have decided, but you cannot know in advance what those decisions are. That is the failure of this process. There is NO rule that can be followed when setting up a recording. It’s simply trial and error.
Plex needs to expand its matching process in order to avoid pitfalls like this. In particular, if something exists where you are searching, that matches the search term, then it really should be offered as a match, independent of how any others have decided whether it be TV or Movie. I’ve done a fair bit of database design and it is unacceptable to impose a requirement on the user that they provide a ‘filter’ that they cannot actually know.
I’m not mindlessly ‘knocking’ Plex, but making a critical observation of a weakness in this aspect of its operation.
Stand-up comedy specials are the same type of thing. Most of them say “TV special” according to IMDB but they all match as movies.
Any one off TV “Movie” will match as a movie. There’s no season of a show it fits into like if you got a Dateline or 20/20 documentary that would go in those folders with a season and episode number
As you use Plex more you start to be able to recognize what belongs where, and yes sometimes you have to do a little googling to make sure
I don’t think this is an issue with Plex. They can match it if you put it in the right place and they don’t dictate whether it’s classified as a TV show or Movie
Well I have been a Plex Pass member and using Plex for about 5 years, but it is now playing a larger part of our TV viewing and recording experience. Just saying, I’m not a complete novice in this regard. But I have been involved in UI development for many years and can spot an obvious hole, which this is.
Look, it’s not a huge deal, but the more robust the defence of the current strategy, the more I have to argue that there is a flaw.
It is clear that Plex DOES require the user to decide whether it’s a Movie or TV and the fact it is a single video with no apparent season or episode does NOT make it a movie as there are many, many TV shows like that and I like that Plex allows Seasons to be suppressed for this exact reason. However, in this case, the exact same file, when in a TV library CANNOT be matched. Drop a symlink into a Movie library’s folder and it is immediately matched correctly. This shows unequivocally that the user DOES need to determine Movie or TV as getting it wrong ensures there will be NO match. My determination that this is not a Movie is actually neither here nor there. My point is that this should not be a prerequisite in order for Plex to be able to match, particularly as there are no rules to follow here so it is impossible for the user to be sure they make the correct choice.
As I said, it’s not a huge deal and just something to be looked into for future improvement, but don’t try and pretend this current behaviour is perfect.
Feel free to ignore what follows if you’re not using Plex’s DVR to make the recordings…
You’re forced to pick a library to record to when scheduling the recording. Plex will only allow you to pick a “Movies” type library for an item which it considers to be a movie; likewise, it will only allow you to pick a “TV Shows” type library for series. You could use that as your cue for which type of library the item needs to ultimately end up in (that is, if Plex forces you to record to a movie library to start with, it should probably end up in a movie library).
That would be helpful if true. Not suggesting you’re lying, but the show in question I recorded in Plex a few days ago and it obviously allowed me to choose (suggested even) to record to the TV library, but then was unable to match the program because it was in a TV library. Only when placed in a Movies library was it able to match.
So if what you’re saying is how it is supposed to work (and seems like a good idea), then it is broken in some way as it does not in fact do that.
That’s definitely how it’s supposed to work. Based on the EPG data, the DVR classifies things as series (in which case they can only be recorded to a “TV Shows” type library) or movies (in which case they can only be recorded to “Movies” or “Other Videos” type libraries). Here’s the option I’m given when scheduling a movie:
And here’s what I’m shown when scheduling a TV series:
It should be directing you to the correct library type. Note however that “Other Videos” type libraries are special case of movie library; if you have any they will be shown when scheduling a movie to record as well.
If it’s not working that way for you, you may want to double check that the library to which you’re recording to ensure that it is indeed a “TV Shows” type library. Aside from that, another possible explanation is that the EPG data is just wrong in classifying a movie as a TV show. I’ve seen this happen myself when using XMLTV guide data; it made everything appear as a TV series by including the episode-num element inappropriately.
That raises a question: Are you using XMLTV guide data, or Plex’s?
Of course, this is a separate issue from the one you originally raised. I’m only suggesting this as a way to have the Plex DVR help you out. I actually use the DVR a bit differently than you do. I leave my recordings in dedicated DVR Movies and DVR TV Shows libraries and just use the metadata which Plex keeps from its EPG.
Let’s assume after many years of using Plex, I am able to determine whether a particular library is TV, or Movie type.
I use the Plex provided EPG and I suspect it is very possible that miscategorized this particular show. But there is still an issue here that needs to be resolved. Matching relies on the media being correctly categorised - in advance and as is becoming obvious, the automatic process is flawed and in any case, it’s a personal thing and should not affect Plex’s ability to match. As I keep saying, there is NO absolute rule here to follow. The choice of any user as to whether something is TV or a Movie can NEVER be linked to what any other body (personal or commercial) may decide. This means there will always be failures in this process, unless Plex takes a more holistic approach.
Plex needs to look everywhere to find a match and then, if the match is actually within another category, I suggest Plex then offers to move the item to an appropriate library or leave it where it is and simply use what metadata it can.
Plex’s inability to match, simply because of different categorisation (by whoever) should really be addressed instead of blaming the user for getting it wrong when there is NO right and wrong in many cases. Such categorisation can NEVER be perfect in all cases, so Plex needs to be more flexible in order to accommodate such vagaries.
If you record something on a TIVO for instance, it automatically knows whether to put it in “recorded tv shows” or “recorded movies” with no input from the user. You don’t get a vote
I did not mean to insinuate that you are a novice Plex user, I was only speaking on the issue of how a particular show or series is classified by the IMDB or TVDB when you add your own media, not having anything to do with the DVR
I’ve run into this issue enough times that I would have known just by seeing the run time and title of your show that IMDB would classify it as a movie and that would be the only way Plex would match it
The DVR should do that work for you
Are you saying you would like to choose what library you want to add it to, and Plex should match it in either one you choose?
Yes I think I am. Whichever library it is recorded to, Plex has the same information it can use to try and identify it. It really shouldn’t matter which library the user has chosen for it. That is a matter of personal preference with no hard and fast rules, so I think Plex should match it however it can, but of course it would have a Season if recorded to a TV library. Not that that matters as a library can be set to not display single Seasons.
It is tricky/impossible to automatically categorise media like this. Just because something runs for 1.5 hours does not a Movie make. If it is clearly a documentary, then IMO it is TV. But other involved parties (e.g. TVDB, IMDB etc) make their own individual decisions on this. No single decision/rule can be always correct and Plex needs to be able to accommodate this.
A minor issue really though and I’d prefer they concentrated on greater flexibility with choice of tuners and EPGs.
I just want to clarify that if you are recording things using the Plex DVR (using the Plex provided EPG data), that uses separate metadata from a normal non-DVR Plex library.
