THIS!
@djumv said:
So who are you selling the data to, plex?FBI, RIAA, MPAA, DOJ?
Ah, yes, that is a poorly constructed section.
Data Related to Third-Party Content
Media in your library (downloaded, ripped, recorded) is not third-party content. The “program or movie you are watching” applies to third party content (imagine if we were letting you stream movies or programs a la Netflix).
I’ve already requested clarification in that section.
@janngobble said:
THIS!@djumv said:
So who are you selling the data to, plex?FBI, RIAA, MPAA, DOJ?
We’re not selling or giving the data away to anyone.
I shouldn’t need to explain to you what specifically I have a problem with. Up until this point you guys have provided the option to opt-out of your data collection, then you send out a message specifically asking your users not to get pissed, so you already knew this was likely to piss off the masses. I don’t give a damn what your intentions are with MY usage data…it’s mine and I should be able to decide if I want you to have it. Once you decide for me that it belongs to you, it becomes yours to do with as you wish…you may SAY that you’re not going to do X with it…that’s irrelevant to me as a simple change of your minds can make anything you currently say change in the future (as we now see). I decided to become a Plex Pass subscriber a couple of years ago to support the project because I liked what I saw. I also decided to be a monthly subscriber not because I could’t afford the $75 (at that time), but because I thought continued support for the project would help provide your project with ongoing support that it would need.
As of right now, I’ve installed Emby on my server and am watching it index my content. The sad thing is, up until this morning I had absolutely zero reason to go looking for alternatives to Plex as I’ve (as well as a quite few family membersand friends who’ve bought the app) been completely satisfied with the project. With one firing neuron of some idiot’s brain over there (we had a saying in the military about the “Good idea fairy”… every time she shows up, something stupid is about to happen …she’s clearly struck at Plex) I’ve done a complete 180 with regards to my home media server. I’m now going to be changing my server around, changing my clients around (which, BTW is going to REALLY piss my wife off) and putting in God know’s how many hours in support for family members who I’ve assisted with setting up and using your product to another product. I realize that you guys don’t give 2 ■■■■■ about my measly 5 bucks a month, but hopefully enough of your monthly users decide that you’ve crossed a line and can no longer be trusted that it eventually hits you where it hurts, I only hope that it’s not too late as I truly have enjoyed using your product and feel that it’s a solid media solution.
Just one closing thought…If it truly isn’t “That big of a deal” and the data is a inconsequential as you’re trying to imply, why then are you guys willing to piss off so many current subscribers and to put off potential new ones to get it?
I cannot believe you are trying to pull this with paying customers. Will not be using Plex until this is reversed.
@elan said:
(Just wanted to note that being the weekend I have a bunch of errands to run so won’t be super active in here, but we’re discussing the points you’ve raised, and we appreciate your input. Hopefully I’ll have more to say later on today.)
You have a bunch of errands to run? Your company is kinda hemorrhaging a bunch of users and you aren’t in emergency meetings trying to fix it or address? Unless there is a literal family emergency everyone should have been called back to work. That is ridiculous. Might I suggest you follow in the steps of most other media and entertainment companies and hire a Community Manager? You are absolute and total trash at this. That’s one expensive “honey do list”. Do please tell her it’s costing your company at least ~$8000 in refunds for Plex passes, and MASSIVE ill will.
@“Frank R.” said:
You are absolute and total trash at this.
That’s what my wife said when I told her I couldn’t run her errands and had to be on the Internet all day 
@elan said:
@janngobble said:
THIS!@djumv said:
So who are you selling the data to, plex?FBI, RIAA, MPAA, DOJ?
We’re not selling or giving the data away to anyone.
You need to understand @elan, we don’t believe Plex. We can’t afford to. The minute Plex has that data, it can be given to anyone else via selling it, etc…or even in the horribly bad situation where someone like Google buys Plex. Before this announcement it was “Your data is yours.” Now its: “I’ve requested clarification”, why not just “an opt out will be available for any and all data collection. We - if we wanted to get access to that data - would get it from the other end, i.e.: Netflix, Hulu, etc”
@elan said:
Ah, yes, that is a poorly constructed section.Data Related to Third-Party Content
Media in your library (downloaded, ripped, recorded) is not third-party content.
I’ve already requested clarification in that section.
If what you say is true the section is not “poorly constructed”, it’s simply wrong about Live TV/DVR.
When you use the Services to watch, listen to, or record content from a third-party content provider or source such as any officially supported Third-Party Content that Plex streams to Plex apps, trailers and extras from IVA, the Plex It feature, the Plex Watch Later feature, or use of our Live TV and DVR service, we may collect information related to that media interaction. For example, we may collect what program or movie you are watching and when
It specifically mentions recording content and Live TV/DVR.
@elan said:
The “program or movie you are watching” applies to third party content (imagine if we were letting you stream movies or programs a la Netflix).
Are you saying you may introduce paid content via Plex Cloud, like I suggested here? That would be awesome.
@janngobble said:
You need to understand @elan, we don’t believe Plex. We can’t afford to.
Just to be pedantic, trust is a big part of this. If we’re not trustworthy, we could give you an opt-out toggle which did nothing except make you feel better. We are not that company. We’re the same group of media loving fanatics (and users!) we were 10 years ago. The reason why I’m in here commenting over and over again is that I care about the way you feel, and we’re reading and listening to what you’re saying.
I have zero issue with free accounts not being given a choice. I think it’s pretty slimy to do this to monthly subscribers, but at least they have the recourse to stop subscribing. As a lifetime subscriber, this is unacceptable. My options are to either continue to use a product with an unacceptable terms of service, or to be out of pocket due to you choosing to unilaterally alter the terms of service.
I have a few solutions I’d be willing to accept:
*Move all the 3rd party stuff to a separate app with tracking, and leave me the option to not be tracked in exchange for no access to 3rd party stuff
*Allow paid members to opt out of tracking
*Refund my money
Ball is in your court. Consider this a formal statement that I do not consent to the new terms of service and will be following up with the relative authorities.
@elan said:
@janngobble said:
You need to understand @elan, we don’t believe Plex. We can’t afford to.Just to be pedantic, trust is a big part of this. If we’re not trustworthy, we could give you an opt-out toggle which did nothing except make you feel better. We are not that company. We’re the same group of media loving fanatics (and users!) we were 10 years ago. The reason why I’m in here commenting over and over again is that I care about the way you feel, and we’re reading and listening to what you’re saying.
Just to be pedantic, offering a button to opt in/out that did nothing would be a breach of your ToC and of various local legislation.
Harvesting data today allows you to change your intentions in the future which wouldn’t be a breach of ToC etc.
If you care, ask your CEO to leave the opt in/out option there.
@elan said:
@“Frank R.” said:
You are absolute and total trash at this.That’s what my wife said when I told her I couldn’t run her errands and had to be on the Internet all day
Here’s a tip. When your customers are all outraged by an issue, even if you think it’s bullshit or overblown you don’t make a joke of it. Because then we feel like you’re talking down to us and treating us like idiots. It is extremely unprofessional. I know you’re trying to inject levity and humor into a situation. But it’s an extremely bad idea. You really should just switch to, “We hear your concerns and will update you later again.” And do hire that community manager. You have 50+ employees that you are failing. Badly.
Elan,
Thanks for chiming in. It is good to know that Plex is taking this issue seriously.
One thing that can help is adding an explanation to why each change was made. (Like when an app asks for “location” on your phone, but tells it now includes a map feature, and so on).
For example, why is the collection of media metadata is necessary?
Additionally, why would having no opt-out would be a determent for that purpose? Can you achieve the same goal without forcing the collection from all users?
Finally what is the final benefit for us the users?
If the public announcement would to include additional information like these it might help understand the change.
@elan said:
Sorry, I’ve been over on Reddit trying to respond to a bunch of things, so I hadn’t seen this thread until now.I just wanted to clarify a few things which I’ve seen misrepresented or completely misunderstood, either here or on other channels:
- We have never been interested in what media you have in your library, or what library media you’re watching. This hasn’t changed, and will not change!
- We’re not selling or sharing these statistics with anyone, so I don’t know why people are saying they’re the product, or we’re whoring their data. That’s simply not the case.
- We’ve always had in our privacy policy the part about exceptions for third parties; for example, if you played a VEVO video, we had to let them know about that (in an anonymous way). Ditto for things like premium trailers (which again, are streaming from a commercial provider of that media).
- We’re not going to put ads on your personal content. Any mention of advertising in the ToC is specially meant to cover third party commercial content. If you don’t want to watch that content, you certainly don’t have to.
Can you help me understand the specific aspects of the new policy you’re angry at, because I feel like a lot of the anger I’m reading is based on misunderstanding. (Not all of it, for sure, but definitely some of it.)
@elan said:
@janngobble said:
You need to understand @elan, we don’t believe Plex. We can’t afford to.Just to be pedantic, trust is a big part of this. If we’re not trustworthy, we could give you an opt-out toggle which did nothing except make you feel better. We are not that company. We’re the same group of media loving fanatics (and users!) we were 10 years ago. The reason why I’m in here commenting over and over again is that I care about the way you feel, and we’re reading and listening to what you’re saying.
Which would be discovered by the community at large in very short order and open your company up to legal liabilities that I wouldn’t even begin to enumerate…No, they way you’re going about it is just to say screw you guys, we’re doing it then hope that the story dies down before too many people notice and the word gets out (it’s already on at least one major news site as of this morning).
Again, if the data isn’t a big deal, why piss so many paying customers off to obtain it?
@elan said:
@“Frank R.” said:
You are absolute and total trash at this.That’s what my wife said when I told her I couldn’t run her errands and had to be on the Internet all day
I like this joke: http://imgur.com/a/aLHwv better then yours anyway.
@stikves said:
For example, why is the collection of media metadata is necessary?
Additionally, why would having no opt-out would be a determent for that purpose? Can you achieve the same goal without forcing the collection from all users?
Finally what is the final benefit for us the users?
Can we get these questions answered? I can’t find the answers to these anywhere…
@janngobble said:
Well, this is not the only part! Plex SPECIFICALLY says that they will send info on what you watch and/or record using the LiveTV/DVR!
To put it crassly personal: I do not care at all about that. I do not use and have no plans to ever use either function. In fact I do not consider them to be part of the core of Plex. Plex is, for me, a system to playback and catalog my local media. All the rest is simply fluff.
I know that sounds like I don’t care about others BUT neither feature was part of Plex when I stared and I believe it should be separate from Plex now. Plex is (or at least should be) about playing media not about acquiring it in any way.
As far as I am concerned they can share everything about those addon features.
I already emailed support, but I thought I would add my voice here as well. I will not continue to use Plex if this decision isn’t reversed for paying customers. I’m also thirding these questions.
@YeomansNAS said:
@stikves said:
For example, why is the collection of media metadata is necessary?
Additionally, why would having no opt-out would be a determent for that purpose? Can you achieve the same goal without forcing the collection from all users?
Finally what is the final benefit for us the users?Can we get these questions answered? I can’t find the answers to these anywhere…
First time post on this forum as a fresh plex pass user I notice, Elan, that you are only trying to justify the changes made to the policy instead of listening to your, or at least some significant portion of your customers.
Having said that, I would like to know how to initiate that refund please:
“I don’t think we can have a productive conversation about this, but I’m happy to refund you your lifetime membership if you’d like. I’m truly sorry that these changes have upset you as much as they have.”
