Plexamp Related Songs

[pjft81]

Server Version#: 1.22.3.4523
Player Version#: Plexamp 3.4.5

Hi all,

I love the “Related” tab on Plexamp, I tend to start something and then just go with the Related tab suggestions. They are awesome.

What I find, however, is that after a while in the same play session, the related songs presented are exactly the same for the same artists, and often I have already even added them to the current play queue - or ignored them multiple times, which makes for an unfortunate experience. I can accept that, perhaps, the songs that I have not selected keep getting suggested, but for the ones I have already selected and have been added to the queue, we’d probably be better off suggesting other popular songs by the same artist, as I imagine that the Related tab primarily uses artist relationships to populate that tab (if not “exclusively”)?

Don’t get me wrong, this is awesome. Just want to keep it being awesomer!

Thanks all.

[elan]

Thanks for the great feedback!

In at least some cases, we sort the track lists by least recently listened to tracks first in order to ensure some freshness. However, that also means that ones you ignore might continue to be first.

It’s a bit of a tight rope to walk…

[pjft81]

@elan Thanks for the quick reply!

I completely get the ignored part, but I assume then that suggesting the repeated tracks is an unintended behavior, and I think we can get to the bottom of that.

I believe that what might be happening, if it’s not intended, is that I have added the song to the queue, but since it hasn’t been played yet (as I had added several others prior to that, by clicking “more” related ones), I keep getting that same song.

Might I suggest removing tracks in the current queued list from the suggestions?

I can live with the ignored songs a I understand it’s a tight rope to walk, that’s completely fine. But being asked to add songs I have already added to the queue but are yet to be played is not great - I’d rather have non-queued, popular least recently listened to tracks, if it makes sense?

Still, love Plexamp, really. My only regret is having to have to “cast” to the Plex Web browser to save an especially awesome queue as a playlist to listen to in the future.

[pjft81]

@elan ok, here’s an actual example.

Here’s was my “up next” queue earlier today. Mind you, I have by now added so many songs throughout my play session that new related songs I’m adding are actually added outside of my current view. That being said, I trust that they are being added.

Notice the 3rd and 6th song in the “Up Next” queue, as these are key to the example. When I’m on the 3rd song - “Heartbreak Lullaby”, I get suggested as a “Related” song “Push” by Matchbox Twenty, and I select it.

All fine, I keep browsing, adding more songs.

When I’m on the 6th song of the original queue (“Innocent” by Our Lady Peace), here it is again being suggested:

Mind you, this was not an isolated case. In the previous songs I got suggestions for songs I had already selected, it just happened that I hadn’t taken a screenshot of my previous selection, so I tried to replicate it on my end.

Once again, I imagine there are other Matchbox Twenty songs to recommend if I already added that one to the queue (and it still hasn’t been played). Also, to prove the point, I got to fast forward in the queue up to the point where these new songs are being added, and here’s an example of what this results in:

Here you see me listening to “Four” by Lit, which had been recommended. You’ll see the 2nd item in the “Up next” list being “Push” by Matchbox Twenty, but also the 12th as well. You also see that the same song I’m listening to - “Four” is the 15th item in the “Up Next” list, because of it having been suggested multiple times. Same with other songs in that list - “Nothing” by A, “Teenage Dirtbag” by Wheatus, etc. And, mind you, I have more songs by these artists in my library, so it’s not a matter of “Plex only has those songs to recommend” (though, if that were the case, probably not recommending them if they were already queued would be a good option as well).

What I think might be happening is, either:

• Plex is not taking into account whether the suggested songs are already in the queue and suggesting other popular songs by the same artist;
• Plex may be taking some of it into account, but since they are being added so far into the future, it’s not being considered for some reason.

Hope this helps clarify the issue, but if there are any logs I can share - server or elsewhere - let me know.

Best.

[elan]

@pjft81

Mind you, I have by now added so many songs throughout my play session that new related songs I’m adding are actually added outside of my current view

Ahhh, I think this is the issue. We only keep around a fixed window (~20 tracks) which we look at for duplicates, so I think you’re getting outside of that window. Possible?

[TeknoJunky]

Hi don’t think it was mentioned, but if you swipe left on a related track it will show other tracks, in case you were not already aware.

[pjft81]

@elan Completely. Any reason for that apparently arbitrary window size not to be [queue size]? That would definitely alleviate the problem that’s happening here, and unless there is a good technical reason for that, since you are storing the more than that number of songs already in the queue, could that be changed?

@TeknoJunky I had no idea, and that indeed does help - at least checking on my iPhone, it did work! I am, however, listening on a desktop (Mac) and not only is “swiping” not a common interaction gesture, for some reason I can’t even seem to trigger that by mouse-clicking-and-dragging-left (which is, admittedly, a weird gesture on a desktop but I suppose I could do it).

Suggestion: since we have right-click (and long-press on mobile) to trigger the menu there, and that left-click/single-tap on a related song doesn’t do anything, any thoughts on the following for the related tracks:

• Making left-click/single-tap open that menu that comes up with right-click/long-press AND the “three dot icon” to the right;
• Remove the “three dot icon” to the right and instead make it a different one (maybe a “>”) to cycle through other songs?

Thanks both, happy weekend.

[pjft81]

Apologies, just saw 3.4.6 has been launched - not to get my hopes up, I don’t assume anything has been considered yet in this regard?

Happy Tuesday everyone.

[elan]

@pjft81

Any reason for that apparently arbitrary window size not to be [queue size]?

Just a matter of not grabbing a lot of data. Queue size can be … literally the entire library.

[pjft81]

That’s fair, and I don’t know the performance impact there. That being said, a few things for consideration:

• Assuming that we retrieve 3-5 artists and a couple of popular songs per call, we could filter offline (i.e. if song from artist is already in [interval], get next suggested song from artist up to a max number of attempts);
• In regards to the 20 song limit, I am not sure that is the current value - it “feels” longer. That being said, 20 songs at 5 mins each is barely over 1 hour and a half. I sit down in the morning to start working and start Plexamp, and if I’m going to be listening to songs for the entire day, if 20 is the number, it feels short. If the performance impact isn’t too much, go for 200. Honestly, I stay with the same queue for days, as it will be changing as I add new related songs, though I’m not sure I am the “normal” use case.

Finally, even if that isn’t changed, there is the second issue that on the desktop version we cannot manually “swipe left” in the related songs to get a different one. That could mitigate the issue, even if it is a manual approach. That is not working, at least on Mac, and could help here - and at least that feels more like a “bug” than a change in features.

Thanks for replying and going through this.

[pjft81]

For what it’s worth, I found out that I can “swipe” on my Macbook using a two-finger gesture on the touchpad, but that is impossible to do using a regular, external mouse. Hopefully this can at least help explore options for that interaction.

Thanks all, happy Thursday.