+1
There are a lot more issues than just the technical hurdles in trying to achieve this feature...
Most Notably the LEGAL issues!
To Transcode is essentially considered a RE-BROADCAST of the content. This is the key Sticking point in the Aereo Case that is soon to get looked at in the US Supreme Court.
Many of the Live Subscription channels available on the Internet also use DRM or Encryption that would be get bypassed in any transcode which is also not quite Legal.
As for other Live TV options Slingbox is one option and PVR support would be even better.
But the Ones that are streamed via Internet have a bunch of Legal issues to get by before you can even attempt to jump the technical hurdles involved in trying to transcode a stream that isn't locally available to the Transcoder and may never have an ending.
Transcoders don't like to wait for data to work on it really wants everything as soon as it is ready for it.
Even the slightest hiccup in data flow will break the transcode.
We're not talking about transcoding an internet stream, but transcoding a stream from a satellite tuner. The stream is not encoded, the sat box handles the decoding part _if_ the stream was encoded at all, it might have been free-to-air.
I see no more legal issues than there would be with re-broadcasting a movie ripped from a blueray disc and stored on your nas.
Since DVBlink managed to get transcoding of a live stream going, using FFMpeg I read somewhere, I dare to have some hope that the people at Plex will also be able to crack this nut... if they would only care about this usage case.
We're not talking about transcoding an internet stream, but transcoding a stream from a satellite tuner. The stream is not encoded, the sat box handles the decoding part _if_ the stream was encoded at all, it might have been free-to-air.
I see no more legal issues than there would be with re-broadcasting a movie ripped from a blueray disc and stored on your nas.
Since DVBlink managed to get transcoding of a live stream going, using FFMpeg I read somewhere, I dare to have some hope that the people at Plex will also be able to crack this nut... if they would only care about this usage case.
You apparently haven't read the terms of Service that came with that feature of your Sat Service.
Contractually they are not permitted to let you stream those contents outside of your home Except in some cases where they can make it available via an App. Not all channels are available in those in most cases and in order to stay legal the stream must come directly from the box itself not through a mediary.
To Transcode that essentially means you are making the content available for devices that might not be approved under the contract with the Content Creator.
It's not right or fair or even logical...
But it is the mess we are in thanks to the greed of the Content Providers and their crafty Lawyers.
A Channel or Plugin that would allow a direct connection to get the stream from your Sat Box would be legal...
Transcoding it would not. Not Fair but it is how the law seems to be defined unless the Aereo wins it's case and redefines what is actually constitutes a re-broadcast.
I fully understand what you are saying.
My personal usage would be completely limited to the confines of my own home, I have no interest in streaming the sat box feed across the internet.
I have a single decoder, and want to watch the feed in one of 2 rooms in my home. Not even simultaneous, just one or the other.
The plex media client used to be able to handle this setup. Recently it lost the ability. :( Hence, this thread...
i dont want to say that we don't need transcoding of transport streams anymore.
but i found something very interesting. thanks to the great channel feature of plex, there is a promising "new" plex-plugin: IPTV.bundle
not sure what has changed recently but I now have live TV on my roku/phone/PHT courtesy of Plex and tvheadend. Plex is (somehow) doing the transcoding (it is explicitly disabled on the tvheadend side of things - if you enable it then they both transcode it!)
i dont want to say that we don't need transcoding of transport streams anymore.
but i found something very interesting. thanks to the great channel feature of plex, there is a promising "new" plex-plugin: IPTV.bundle
Tried it with my linux-based satellite decoder (Dreambox), the stream doesn't play.
Tried it with my linux-based satellite decoder (Dreambox), the stream doesn't play.
please read the compatibility list. only some protocols work. some HTTP and RTMP simple works fine for me. you have to test which works best for you. and then change your stream to that protocol.
A Channel or Plugin that would allow a direct connection to get the stream from your Sat Box would be legal...
Transcoding it would not. Not Fair but it is how the law seems to be defined unless the Aereo wins it's case and redefines what is actually constitutes a re-broadcast.
"Legal" and "Against terms of service" are two entirely different things. It is often the case that some of the terms of service that a company tries to impose are not enforceable, or have yet to be tested in court.
As for the legality of this situation, this case is the one to watch. So far, the courts are siding with personal place shifters (Slingbox in this case) that do indeed transcode.
"Legal" and "Against terms of service" are two entirely different things. It is often the case that some of the terms of service that a company tries to impose are not enforceable, or have yet to be tested in court.
As for the legality of this situation, this case is the one to watch. So far, the courts are siding with personal place shifters (Slingbox in this case) that do indeed transcode.
Actually Slingbox is not technically transcoding...it is actually ENCODING...
Transcoding is the changing of one digital file format to another. The slingbox is not getting and changing a digital file it is merely encoding a digital signal from the cablebox (if the device has an HDMI input) and it's not even digital if using the Component input which was why none of those original Sling type boxes had an HDMI Input in the first place.
Actually Slingbox is not technically transcoding...it is actually ENCODING...
That's only if you believe wikipedia ;)
In generic terms it is the process of decoding and then re-encoding. Slingbox decodes the analog audio and video to an uncompressed digital format, then re-encodes to a compressed digital format. That is transcoding. Converting one coded representation to another.
Use of the "analog loophole" in transcoding digital content is not strictly because it's digital, it's because unauthorized decryption of the digital stream is prohibited by the DMCA. But if you capture from an analog source that used authorized decryption, you can then transcode (yep, I'm using it again) that authorized analog output to a digital format without violating the DMCA's anti-circumvention provisions. The same applies if you capture an un-encrypted stream, since you don't need to circumvent any protection measures to decode the un-encrypted stream.
Regardless of the source being analog or digital, or changing the format of the source to another, the Slingbox case centers around transmitting the content of that source to another location for viewing by individuals that are already licensed to use it in its primary location. Similar to Aereo, but focused on the end user, not re-transmission on a large scale.
Actually Slingbox is not technically transcoding...it is actually ENCODING...
Transcoding is the changing of one digital file format to another. The slingbox is not getting and changing a digital file it is merely encoding a digital signal from the cablebox (if the device has an HDMI input) and it's not even digital if using the Component input which was why none of those original Sling type boxes had an HDMI Input in the first place.
Respectfully, I think you just shot down your own argument. It is changing digital -> digital. Thats transcoding. Therefore if Sling and others can do it legally, (I own two such devices (sling & other) and legally use them) why can't Plex?
Where I would hope the Plex team is able to come in on this issue is similar to where a car manufacturer would be.
They made the car but you drove it. Does that make them responsible for what you did while driving the car? I say no. You are the one with the license to operate it after all. You should know what's legal and what's not legal.
That's only if you believe wikipedia ;)
In generic terms it is the process of decoding and then re-encoding. Slingbox decodes the analog audio and video to an uncompressed digital format, then re-encodes to a compressed digital format. That is transcoding. Converting one coded representation to another.
Use of the "analog loophole" in transcoding digital content is not strictly because it's digital, it's because unauthorized decryption of the digital stream is prohibited by the DMCA. But if you capture from an analog source that used authorized decryption, you can then transcode (yep, I'm using it again) that authorized analog output to a digital format without violating the DMCA's anti-circumvention provisions. The same applies if you capture an un-encrypted stream, since you don't need to circumvent any protection measures to decode the un-encrypted stream.
Regardless of the source being analog or digital, or changing the format of the source to another, the Slingbox case centers around transmitting the content of that source to another location for viewing by individuals that are already licensed to use it in its primary location. Similar to Aereo, but focused on the end user, not re-transmission on a large scale.
There is no decoding of an Analog signal...Analog has noce CODE at all!
It is a signal that uses no numbers whatsoever!
it is not a digital to digital conversion.
Respectfully, I think you just shot down your own argument. It is changing digital -> digital. Thats transcoding. Therefore if Sling and others can do it legally, (I own two such devices (sling & other) and legally use them) why can't Plex?
Where I would hope the Plex team is able to come in on this issue is similar to where a car manufacturer would be.
They made the car but you drove it. Does that make them responsible for what you did while driving the car? I say no. You are the one with the license to operate it after all. You should know what's legal and what's not legal.
If it was digital then it wouldn't be analog now would it?
Sorry guys but that component signal is not a digital signal all it is really is a separation of the Red Green and Blue analog signals.
I think you missed my point entirely but no biggie.
whether "analog" or "digital", once in our homes, legally obtained (licensed), it is my humble opinion that we should be allowed to do with it as we please, which includes record it for later viewing using our own equipment. If i had an analog VCR or even a VTR and recorded something, would the manufacturer of the tape machine be liable if i violated any TOS? Def not.
So it comes down to who 'polices' or mandates when i watch content that I've PAID FOR ?
In my mind, Plex is the playback deck in my video studio. If it needs an NTSC or PAL modulator to put the image on the TV I have connected to it, then do it.
Sorry guys but that component signal is not a digital signal all it is really is a separation of the Red Green and Blue analog signals.
Doesn't matter if it's digital or analog. It's coded format. Converting one coded format to another is called transcoding. This is really a silly thing to argue about, because it has no bearing on the legality of place shifting. If you must, call it "Analog to digital conversion".
As I've already explained, the only reason analog matters for the Slingbox is when its analog source was created from a DRMd stream that was decrypted by an authorized device. Slingbox could use a digital source with no issue, if that digital source was not encrypted (HDMI is usually HDCP protected, so not an option for the Slingbox), or if the Slingbox was authorized for decryption (They're unlikely to ever get this authorization).
Plex using an unencrypted stream, like Clear QAM, is legally no different than Slingbox using an analog stream.
I think we're all saying the same thing but simply using different terms and/or from different perspectives.
I grew up in the analog days, repairing vacuum tube tv sets.
When cable came out and had it's 'protection', a simple look at the signal on the O-scope shows you what was going on. Not digital at all, but numbers were involved. all timing.
So let's just agree to get our content into Plex and enjoy playing it on our devices? (the greedy content jerks will always be that... greedy jerks in a dieing industry)
whether "analog" or "digital", once in our homes, legally obtained (licensed), it is my humble opinion that we should be allowed to do with it as we please,
In my mind, Plex is the playback deck in my video studio. If it needs an NTSC or PAL modulator to put the image on the TV I have connected to it, then do it.
Yes many people feel that way....However the Content providers have their own opinions as well....Not arguing with you just saying their opinion differs from your and it is because DIGITAL is considered a LOSSLESS conversion. You can make an exact copy of any 1080P content provided you use the same sampling rate used to make it.
Analog has no sampling rate. ENCODING is in itself a reduction of quality since you have to set a sampling rate which means your losing what is in between the samples. You don't perceive it but technically it is there and why some people still to this day say Vinyl sounds better than CDs.
Doesn't matter if it's digital or analog. It's coded format.
Analog is not a coded format....Your just plain wrong thinking it does! Analog is about voltages and modulation not code! There is no code it is a waveform not a number.
When cable came out and had it's 'protection', a simple look at the signal on the O-scope shows you what was going on. Not digital at all, but numbers were involved. all timing.
That protection was a scrambled RF signal not a Digital signal at all.
When you saw it on the OScope it was not looking anything like a digital signal would.
Even when you look at a Digital signal on a Oscilloscope, Vector or Waveform what your seeing is what the Analog version of that signal would look like on that scope if it was an analog signal.
The entire Digital Vs Analog is a rather moot point of interest for plex as the devs have stated many times they are not likely to ever integrate LiveTV functionality in to the Core of the Plex. It more or less will always be a plugin and require a outside Device & Backend handling the TV Side of things.
