Talking to my parents the other day I asked what they thought of War for the Planet of the Apes, my mom said “It was good, but it really needed subtitles. So much of the movie was apes speaking sign language.” But, there are subtitles for those parts! My MKVs have the Forced subtitle track embedded in them, unfortunately Plex doesn’t play it automatically.
Now they’re getting up in age, and don’t use the Roku Plex client often enough to know they have to look for subtitles. Regardless, it doesn’t matter, this is a Plex server issue. Forced subtitles should be control server side and played automatically.
I’ve heard some people’s servers aren’t powerful enough to transcode subtitles. But why would anyone want to watch a movie and be lost for half the dialogue because the subtitles are integral to the plot? If that is the case, that movie doesn’t belong on their server.
There are already 3 server-side options regarding subtitles, manually selected, shown with foreign audio, always enabled. Why can’t their be a 4th option to enabled Forced subtitles?
I’ve made several posts about this in the past, and voted on the “feature request” thread. But playing forced subtitles is not a feature request, the fact that they are not played automatically is a bug.
Thank you
2 Likes
Depends probably on your container and how the subtitles are present. I remember mkv with (embedded) forced subtitles to always show them by default, but depending on the client needing transcoding for that.
My mp4s with .srt (forced) don’t show them by default as it seems, but I am not sure if this is also a question of client.
All my files are mkvs. The movies with embedded (meaning in the container, not hardcoded) Forced subtitles (Forced flag set) are never played by automatically. (Default is a confusing term here since it could also refer to which subtitle track would be Plex’s first choice.)
The client should be able to override the subtitle choice (if the user wants full subtitles or the hearing-impaired versions (I forgot the acronym) but the server should at least default to automatically playing the Forced ones. (At least give server operators the option).
I wish they all Forced subs were hardcoded into the video (as they’re as necessary for proper playback of the file as the audio or video tracks), but that’s not the reality and it’s the reason the Forced flag exists.
It’s a Roku Problem - as in Roku Inc.
A year ago - at least - Roku changed the subtitle game. If you don’t have Caption set to ON globally you won’t get any sub-titles. At All. The Roku app developer did all he could in this regard. If you don’t have Captions on Globally, but need them, hit *, arrow left to the ‘graphic equalizer icon thingy’, hit * again and you should be right where you need to be to arrow right once and turn on Captions mode.
Unfortunately that turns on Captions mode - for everything - but it’s the ONLY option.
I use Forced Subs always. They work as expected. Fortunately for me I ONLY use my Roku for Plex, but in the event I do use it for something else and the Captions are on, a quick * allows me to turn them off.
Best get the Parents on board - cause this ain’t gonna change any time soon.
From ‘The Horse’s Mouth’:
From May:
Public Outcry at Roku Inc - went nowhere, of course:
https://forums.roku.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=100928&p=556335
Idk, for that same movie Forced subtitles didn’t play automatically on the Plex PS4 client for me either (I just knew how to turn them on), and they don’t play automatically with the web app.
Regardless, Forced subs should be controlled by the server and transcoded into the video on the server.
I guess a workaround for people with slow servers is to let the client do the work, but for the rest of us it makes more sense for the server to deliver them transcoded into the video.
1 Like
To be clear when I say Forced subs, I’m not saying I want subtitles enabled for every file all of the time. I’m talking about the subtitle tracks that have the Forced flag set to on. AKA, hose tracks only have subtitles for the lines of dialogue that differ from the language of the audio tack.
Yep… I get ya. They are the ONLY kind of subs I need/use.
If the global Caption Mode on the Roku isn’t on - you ain’t gonna see 'em. Period.
I explain above how to turn that on - on the fly.
Forced UTF-8 subs - embedded into MKV files, or used as Sidecar SRT files with MP4s work just fine without transcoding… provided Global Captions are on - or switched on during playback.
Example:
Movie Name (YEAR).xxx
Movie Name (YEAR).eng.forced.srt
or
Star Trek Discovery (2017) - S01E01 - Episode Name Optional.xxx
Star Trek Discovery (2017) - S01E01 - Episode Name Optional.eng.forced.srt
Embedded subs need the Forced Flag set.
Well I was going to go on a tangent about this myself but after f*ing around with my server and Roku I just noticed that forced subtitles ARE displayed by default BUT only for the Admin account and not for managed accounts. So PMS/Roku honors subtitles order & display BUT only for the master admin account of Plex.
To recap,
The Roku will honor and display forced subtitles automatically while I’m logged into my admin account.
The Roku will not honor forced subtitles while I’m logged into my managed accounts.
Also, the Roku will display subtitles automatically(default track: NO, forced track: NO within the mkv) while I’m logged into my admin account and have PMS configured to play subtitles automatically on foreign audio.
Seems like the settings/options that we can check/uncheck within PMS are for THAT user. Basically, there not server setting as they are user settings.
So, the settings you change within PMS are really for you only(your admin account), not for managed account and not for shared users. I guess my train of thought was the server settings were site wide affecting all users but guess not. I wonder what the dev’s think of this.
TLDR;
Server settings are NOT site wide.
If you don’t enable subs globally on your Roku - no subs will display - period - fini - end of story - the buck stops here - that’s all she wrote, folks.
@JuiceWSA
I don’t think you see the point I am trying to make.
SUBs are enable on my Roku and everything works the way it suppose to for my admin account.
The problem the OP and I have is the subtitle setting in PMS only work for that user(the admin).
In other words, this setting here should be for every user OR at the very least, be global in it affect anyone that streams from the server.
As it stands now, the only user that benefits from this setting is the admin user.
@EvanVanVan said:
Regardless, it doesn’t matter, this is a Plex server issue. Forced subtitles should be control server side and played automatically.
I agree with you 100%. The server should send the subtitle request to the client for every user.
If friends/family don’t like this then Plex needs to add that setting into the users Plex.tv account so they can change/or disable automatic subtitle play.
I mean, you see from time to time programs having the setting “Use System Default”. Well, Plex needs this… “Use Server default”.
It looks like this got overlooked when creating the friends/family/managed sharing feature.
Give each plex user the ability to utilize what was setup by the admin of that server.
This BUG/incomplete feature is not just on the Roku.
I just tried on PlexWeb and on my Android phone and the same results. PMS will not setup the automatic playback of subtitles on managed accounts. It did for my admin account, just not my sub-managed accounts.
@JuiceWSA said:
If you don’t enable subs globally on your Roku - no subs will display - period - fini - end of story - the buck stops here - that’s all she wrote, folks.
Ok so maybe there would have been multiple issues with the subtitles had my parent’s known they could be manually turned on. Still doesn’t change the fact that the server should automatically transcode them (Forced subtitle track only) into the video when streaming it to the client. (and if they’re transcoded into the video, wouldn’t that completely bypass any issues Roku’s have with subtitle tracks? It would be as if there wasn’t a separate track at all.)
I’m trying to wrap my head around a workaround that would cause the “Shown with foreign audio” setting to display the forced subtitles. Could I change my plex server preferred language to something other than english? Or if I manually change the audio track language flag in the MKV? Those are ugly solutions but might make things easier for users. Unfortunately, it would probably also show other full subtitle tracks if they aren’t any forced tracks.
One thing I have noted from the MKV’s that I have on my system is that even though the forced subtitle track exists inside the MKV container, the track is not flagged as being forced. It just shows as another English language subtitle track in Plex. These subtitles did not show up when the file was played
As a test I edited the MKV file and added a forced subtitle flag to the subtitle track in question. After saving and playing the file again it now showed the forced subtitles automatically on the movie every time it played, on every device it played on. (making sure I had the automatically select audio and subtitle tracks set to ‘Shown with foreign audio’).
After flagging the track correctly, Plex now reports that track as being a forced subtitle track.
I’ve noticed that when the MKV files are created most likely the ‘forced subtitle’ flag goes missing and it will have to be re added by setting the flag on the track.
I used MKVToolNix to do this.
@Stephen3001 said:
As a test I edited the MKV file and added a forced subtitle flag to the subtitle track in question. After saving and playing the file again it now showed the forced subtitles automatically on the movie every time it played, on every device it played on. (making sure I had the automatically select audio and subtitle tracks set to ‘Shown with foreign audio’).
But what about your parents? Do they have the forced subtitle play automatically?
@EvanVanVan said:
I’m trying to wrap my head around a workaround that would cause the “Shown with foreign audio” setting to display the forced subtitles.
Forced subtitles don’t go with or use option ‘Shown with foreign audio’. If PMS is set this way and you have audio different then your preferred language then the subtitle will play regardless if the track is forced or not.
There is no useful purpose for ‘Shown with foreign audio’ that I can determine. If I have a foreign language movie and don’t have a subtitle track or file, I have gone crazy and won’t be watching TV from my padded cell. I suspect that setting has something to with automatically downloaded subs, or subs in the library language that will display automatically if the audio language doesn’t match the default library language. Well… duh…
I have my setting at Always Enabled because I speak two languages - English and Redneck English both of which are English. If some dialog is in ‘Ape’ or any other language I’d better have a sub track or file or I’m going to miss a LOT of the plot. Before anything is added to my libraries unnecessary sub tracks are stripped from the file - leaving only what I need - an English sub track or a Forced English sub track, both of which will need to be on.
One thing is absolutely certain - if the Parents don’t have Captions Mode ON they won’t see ANY sub titles - at all - and that is an absolute fact. The Parents have to be brought up to speed. There is no ‘work around’ for that.
I don’t have any idea what happens with Plex Pass Features, situations, users, admins, etc. I do know how to make a Roku show subtitles and have them Direct Play - or at least i used to until Roku introduced their world famous 7.7 Firmware, wherein anything is possible - most of it bad.
@NewPlaza said:
@JuiceWSA
I don’t think you see the point I am trying to make.
SUBs are enable on my Roku and everything works the way it suppose to for my admin account.
The problem the OP and I have is the subtitle setting in PMS only work for that user(the admin).
In other words, this setting here should be for every user OR at the very least, be global in it affect anyone that streams from the server.
As it stands now, the only user that benefits from this setting is the admin user.
Every (managed) users has their own settings for audio and subs. Which is a good thing imho.
Super. I’m thrilled for them.
My ‘Guests’ get a sub track or file so they can read what ‘Dragon Chick’ or Klingons are saying and everyone is happy. My ‘Guests’ know if they don’t turn on Captions on their Rokus they won’t see subs. They usually notice this right away when ‘Dragon Chick’ or Kingons are speaking and there is no associated text - easily fixed through the use of the * button on the remote.
