@elan - I won’t disagree some may be carrying torches without full understanding.
But many of us don’t like what is already tracked about us on the net already.
Some of it, we understand, can’t be helped, and either choose to be a product (Facebook/twitter/etc) in exchange for the service, or choose to not use it and keep our privacy.
Plex allowed us to not give data if we as an individual chose to wear that particular tinfoil hat.
Plex is about to remove that, and it upsets us who know, or even those who don’t really know but should, that anonymous is never really anonymous when it comes to supposedly non-identifiable ‘metadata’.
@farginnoob gave some good links and insight that I agreed with in response to someone who tried to blow this off as “what do you care or have to fear?”
@farginnoob said:
Because the point of Plex to begin with was to be able to play local files without the hassle of dealing with an online entity that collects all your data anyway, among other things. Because what I do on my own computer is my own **** business and no one else’s. Because whether I’m looking at movies, tv shows, pictures, or listening to music, that’s my choice and my data. [Because “anonymized” data isn’t actually anonymized](One More Time With Feeling: 'Anonymized' User Data Not Really Anonymous | Techdirt “Because “anonymized” data isn’t actually anonymized”). Because it’s not my interest to debug problems or habits with Plex; if you want that info, ask people to allow it (and there are likely plenty of people (like you, for instance) that are willing). [Because “if you’ve got nothing to fear, you’ve got nothing to hide” is bullshit.](If You've Got Nothing To Hide, You've Actually Got Plenty To Hide | Techdirt “Because “if you’ve got nothing to fear, you’ve got nothing to hide” is bullshit.”)
There are plenty of reasons.
It’s OUR data on your platform, and many of us gave money for that platform and don’t want to give data on your company’s whim, no matter how anonymous you think it is.
Even if you don’t sell it, unless I’m having an issue, I personally don’t want you having it.
If I have an issue, then I share logs and data in trade for support.
Our whim. Our data. Our control.
@Timflix said:
What im most pissed about is the part about the addition of ads for third party stuff… I freaking havent paid plex pass every month for years to have ads shoved down my throat
Hold on for a second here. We’ve always said that a Plex Pass might not cover third party content. For example, there’s no way we could afford adding a giant movie library and allowing all Plex Pass users to stream it ad-free; does that make sense? Or taken to an extreme, if we added a Netflix-like video catalog, and a Spotify-like music catalog, how could we possibly do that for the cost of a Plex Pass? Hence why we’ve always carved out that exception.
So in some hypothetical future, if we added some third party content, and it had ads, why does that make you angry? If you don’t want to watch it, you don’t have to. Some percentage of people will appreciate having the content available inside Plex, ads or not; others won’t care for it.
So just to make crystal clear: we’re not ADDING ads to any existing content. That would be stupid, and you’d be right to be angry about it.
This sort of basic data (again: not the specific media you’re putting in your library or playing) is super helpful for us to understand how our (rapidly growing) user base is using our suite of products.
Plex will continue to collect usage statistics, such as device type, duration, bit rate, media format, resolution, and media type (music, photos, videos, etc.)
Yeah… Basic data… Like exactly how many times a day I watch that one 24.305 minute long episode of Friends where Ross changes the privacy policy to remove the opt-out option, at 480p in an mp4 container.
How on earth did people manage to make products before invasive deep analytics were invented anyway? Good thing my slippers phone home to report how sweaty my feet are so they can try to sell me foot powder. :neutral:
@Wiidesire said:
He won’t comment about the opt-out removal because there is no way to justify it. Honestly his responses make me more angry than the announcement.
Sheesh, give a guy a few minutes before you jump on him? It’s honestly off-putting when you’re trying to have a reasonable conversation.
It’s honestly off-putting when you don’t address and ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that we do NOT want you to collect ANY information. Or at the very least, there are those of us whom would prefer to continue opting out.
And, let’s be honest here. We’re both (all?) technical savvy folks. We ARE aware of the “scenes” that are out there “releasing” media. We’ll leave it at that, as to not give any moderator reason to remove this reply.
Sending duration, bit-rate, codec, etc, etc. one can ascertain lets say, a mesh value of that media being streamed, watched, etc. Now, lets say big brother Plex wishes to compare that hash with those 5 “releases” or heck, all of them. Really? Are we going to continue to act coy here?
Come on, I believe we’re both far too old for this, thus the comment regarding your “patronizing.”
So let me start fresh. We don’t want ANY information (regardless of label, and we certainly do NOT put YOU in the position to decide what is “private” on any level – to us it is ALL private) shared with Plex.
Now, simply: Are you willing to negotiate, or reconsider your gross actions regarding the Privacy Policy? A simple yes or no will suffice.
This sort of basic data (again: not the specific media you’re putting in your library or playing) is super helpful for us to understand how our (rapidly growing) user base is using our suite of products.
Plex will continue to collect usage statistics, such as device type, duration, bit rate, media format, resolution, and media type (music, photos, videos, etc.)
Yeah… Basic data… Like exactly how many times a day I watch that one 24.305 minute long episode of Friends where Ross changes the privacy policy to remove the opt-out option, at 480p in an mp4 container.
How on earth did people manage to make products before invasive deep analytics were invented anyway? Good thing my slippers phone home to report how sweaty my feet are so they can try to sell me foot powder. :neutral:
The comical part is. If this information “wasn’t sold” (wink wink nudge nudge), is Plex in the business of producing movies, TV shows, family movies, etc. anymore? Honest question. I mean, if I were to humor the idea of such information “helping” them (which by the way Plex, I still HAVE NOT removed my position of it being NONE of your business!), in what way?
Is Plex public? Is the stock dropping? Or will it go up because Microsoft now owns them? (that’s sarcasm feel free to ignore it Plex).
@tootsmcgee said:
Yeah… Basic data… Like exactly how many times a day I watch that one 24.305 minute long episode of Friends where Ross changes the privacy policy to remove the opt-out option, at 480p in an mp4 container.
Ha! Can’t say I’ve seen that episode.
Side thought: From everything I’ve read, I think the piece of data people are the most sensitive about per-media item is the duration; I wonder if snapping it to the closest five minutes or something like that would do anything to assuage that specific concern. Because “30 minute mp4 video with H.264 video and AAC 5.1 audio” is very NOT specific, but still very helpful to know…
@elan said:
Side thought: From everything I’ve read, I think the piece of data people are the most sensitive about per-media item is the duration; I wonder if snapping it to the closest five minutes or something like that would do anything to assuage that specific concern. Because “30 minute mp4 video with H.264 video and AAC 5.1 audio” is very NOT specific, but still very helpful to know…
Yes, that seems more reasonable.
Additionally allow paying Plex Pass customers to opt-out and we’re good.
@elan, if I pay $150 for a lifetime pass I’d expect not to be the product. Paid subscribers should keep an opt out.
You’re not even entitled to collect my data without unambiguous consent, and no implicit consent doesn’t count, here in the EU and I don’t consent. At all.
It is my bed time, so if I do not respond elan, that is why. I didn’t try to hurt your feelings by being “abusive.” Honestly, that simply isn’t my style. I care about everyone (ok, perhaps not murders, pedos, etc. but mostly everyone). I care about their freedoms, their privacy and their opinions (especially when they pay my bills and afford me that nice Ferrari).
Maybe I’ll come back later today (Saturday where I am) and I’ll see that Plex cares about us as well.
@hexluther said:
The comical part is. If this information “wasn’t sold” (wink wink nudge nudge), is Plex in the business of producing movies, TV shows, family movies, etc. anymore? Honest question. I mean, if I were to humor the idea of such information “helping” them (which by the way Plex, I still HAVE NOT removed my position of it being NONE of your business!), in what way?
You’ve said you’re a technical person, so I assume this example will make sense: knowing attributes about the media is super helpful in terms of understanding investments into specific features and platforms ~ for example, how people are playing SRT subs on a PS3/PS4? If a lot, then we’d do well to accelerate allowing SRT subs to direct play on that platform. It’s a semi-contrived example, but it’s the sort of thing which is very interesting to have an accurate picture of.
@elan said:
Sorry, I’ve been over on Reddit trying to respond to a bunch of things, so I hadn’t seen this thread until now.
I just wanted to clarify a few things which I’ve seen misrepresented or completely misunderstood, either here or on other channels:
We have never been interested in what media you have in your library, or what library media you’re watching. This hasn’t changed, and will not change!
We’re not selling or sharing these statistics with anyone, so I don’t know why people are saying they’re the product, or we’re whoring their data. That’s simply not the case.
We’ve always had in our privacy policy the part about exceptions for third parties; for example, if you played a VEVO video, we had to let them know about that (in an anonymous way). Ditto for things like premium trailers (which again, are streaming from a commercial provider of that media).
We’re not going to put ads on your personal content. Any mention of advertising in the ToC is specially meant to cover third party commercial content. If you don’t want to watch that content, you certainly don’t have to.
Can you help me understand the specific aspects of the new policy you’re angry at, because I feel like a lot of the anger I’m reading is based on misunderstanding. (Not all of it, for sure, but definitely some of it.)
I thought you’r using google analytics. So google knows it also…
@hexluther said:
The comical part is. If this information “wasn’t sold” (wink wink nudge nudge), is Plex in the business of producing movies, TV shows, family movies, etc. anymore? Honest question. I mean, if I were to humor the idea of such information “helping” them (which by the way Plex, I still HAVE NOT removed my position of it being NONE of your business!), in what way?
You’ve said you’re a technical person, so I assume this example will make sense: knowing attributes about the media is super helpful in terms of understanding investments into specific features and platforms ~ for example, how people are playing SRT subs on a PS3/PS4? If a lot, then we’d do well to accelerate allowing SRT subs to direct play on that platform. It’s a semi-contrived example, but it’s the sort of thing which is very interesting to have an accurate picture of.
Whilst this is the exact reason I imagined would be used for these changes I do not get why you are still ignoring the fact that removing this opt out feature is in direct violation of some laws!?
This is a big issue @elan and you’re ignoring it at every opportunity!
This ain’t going to bode well, especially here in Europe. If I can’t opt out, I will be forced to leave the service. Seriously guys, this is not the way to treat your customers. Don’t make us into products! Since this is such a aggressive move from your side, you will probably have to refund lifetime subscribers.
This is clearly a business move which will collide with 90% of your users.
Elan,
Thanks for taking the time to follow this thread.
Like many others, i’m fairly concerned about privacy topics, as i understand most points modified in Plex privacy policies the only one i’m having a hard time to understand and accept is the removal of the opt-out option for plex usage data collection.
I understand you need usage data from Plex users and that most regular users may tick this opt-out option but you can’t force them to enable it unless damaging this very same user base and your image alongside. For my part, this is an important topic and i’ll consider means to prevent it: Not updating, switch to Emby, patching Plex server itself (this won’t be the 1st time).
What is really concerning me is that this data is not even anonymous (since it’s not specified ni the policy, correct me if i’m wrong here), in that regard, i think you can manage processing this kind of data without the user ID informations. What if this data is leaked ? If i remember correcly Plex history is not exempt of such thing.
I stress you to be crystal clear when handling such sensible policy (precise how, what, when, purpose…), and consider letting the user decide if he wants to send his plex usage data.
@retro1982 said:
Another solution could be the full refund of the payed price (not the current, cheaper price), but i really hope for an other solution…
@hexluther said:
It is my bed time, so if I do not respond elan, that is why. I didn’t try to hurt your feelings by being “abusive.” Honestly, that simply isn’t my style.
Yeah, right…
The problem is not my media, but the incredibly arrogant way of determining whether data is collected or not. On my server only one decides about it and that is me. I want to decide about it myself and accept only opt in or opt out.
If you do not have anything better to do and therefore comes up with such dumb ideas, then finally works on an audiobook library and the correctly storage of the playback position for audiobooks. There you have enough to do then …
