Files with both HDR10+ & DoVi Profile 8.1 metadata show blank/black screen

[nfmain]

@PlexHex

Couldn’t Plex offer a simple on-the-fly losless removal of the HDR10+ metadata on server side for this case?
That is, if a FireTV 4K Max is detected, an MKV with DV Profile 8 plus HDR10+ and a DV capable TV, then this workaround is executed.
I’m just trying to think a little outside the box if the problem can’t be solved on the codec side.

So sth. like …

They don’t even have to do this. They keep regressing and removing features that were present in the past, for instance “Play Version” - you used to be able to have 2.in1. and 3.in.1 movies in the past like Gladiator Theater vs Extended cut into 1 mkv, or Avatar Extended, Collectors, Theatrical cut into 1 mkv, and before you press PLAY, Plex would prompt you which version you want.

That was removed (after working fine for years), and now it just randomly plays 1 of the 3 versions, rendering the 2in1 or 3in1 mkv files useless.

This is a super super super super simple fix, when Plex detects the various metadata of the file BEFORE THE MOVIE IS PLAYED. Just push a prompt!!

"Please pick the Color Spectrum of the Movie you selected:

• Dolby Vision
• HDR10+ (Samsung only)
• Regular HDR"

Let the user pick. If user picks DV, literally strip out HDR10+ and HDR.

If the user picks HDR10+ and doesn’t have a Samsung TV, crash the damn TV and do a full boot for all I care

Like there’s logical ways to do this without spending months on what’s a level 1 process map to fix the problem. @sixones

EDIT:

Look at that for example, thats what shows in the file when I access the file on my Desktop on my server (not player). Firstly, it’s wrong. It’s 4K DoVi/HDR10+/HDR10. There’s no mention of HDR10+ in this file, even though its muxed in.

Secondly, on the TV app, that detail (i.e. DoVi) is conviniently not even displayed, the tag on the TV, on either the chromecast, the firestick, the shield, or even the stock android plex app, shows simply “4K HDR”.

Clearly Plex is able to distinguish in the desktop version that at least 2/3 encodes are present in this file, so why not act on it, and prompt us to pick which one we want to use?

[quietvoid]

@nfmain

It’s not a hardware issue. Firestick supports DV fine, and HDR10+ fine. This was non issue until a couple weeks ago when a Plex update magically broke things.

It isn’t a new issue at all, so I don’t know how just now Plex only would cause issues for you.
On my side I get a black screen with any player that supports Dolby Vision, if the file contains both.

[nfmain]

@quietvoid It’s only very very recently (couple months) that some of the releases have started coming out in HDR10+ and DOVI content.

I spent a solid hour quickly skimming my DV content, and there isn’t a single file that I have from 2022 or earlier, that has both DV+HDR10+

Keep in mind I am not comparing DV+HDR, just HDR10+ as DV+HDR is fine.

Zero issues on firestick:
Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.08.06, BL+RPU, HDR10 compatible / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible

Black screen on firestick:
Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.08.06, BL+RPU, HDR10 compatible / SMPTE ST 2094 App 4, Version 1, HDR10+ Profile B compatible

The problem may have existed for a while but if the content isnt widespread enough, then it’s non issue.

If you have an example of a show/movie/release that came out in early 2022 or 2021 or 2020 with this type of problem, happy to double check it, but it’s nothing I have run across until last month or two.

[quietvoid]

@nfmain

If you have an example of a show/movie/release that came out in early 2022 or 2021 or 2020 with this type of problem, happy to double check it, but it’s nothing I have run across until last month or two.

You can find any UHD disc that has both HDR10+ and Dolby Vision.
Since early 2020 MakeMKV rips would result in a single video with both, so it’s not a new thing.

The issue has been known since at least October 2020.
Nowadays it might be more common because people want single files with both dynamic HDR formats.

[smann]

@nfmain

It’s only very very recently (couple months) that some of the releases have started coming out in HDR10+ and DOVI content.

I spent a solid hour quickly skimming my DV content, and there isn’t a single file that I have from 2022 or earlier, that has both DV+HDR10+

This is incorrect. Fast and Furious Presents: Hobbs and Shaw was both DoVi and HDR10+ back in 2019. Same with Robin Hood from earlier that year (I believe this was the first wide-release Blu-Ray with both). But there are multiple movies I have with both.

Some online streaming providers are starting to do both as well to maximize their market.

Plus, this is backwards changeable. They can always remaster something like King Kong from 1933 into both in the future. This has nothing to do with the year of the movie, more of appeasing the largest crowd at a cost that makes sense to the studio. The bigger movies will always cause studios to gravitate towards including the most people in their releases.

[nfmain]

@smann

This is incorrect. Fast and Furious Presents: Hobbs and Shaw was both DoVi and HDR10+ back in 2019.

No it’s not incorrect. My statement stands. The fact is it’s only just now the groups are releasing the encodes with both. (Not talking about untouched remuxes, I am talking about x265 encodes).

I just did a search for “hobbs shaw 2160p !remux” (excluding remux), going as far back as 1260 days, there isn’t a single copy of this movie with DolbyVision in the release name,

Now, if I look at the actual remux’s - sure, I see a bunch tagged with DoVi and DV, none of those are tagged with HDR10+, now if they had HDR10+ in them and the filenames/releasenames weren’t tagged, then obviously I wouldn’t have known or thought much of it, considering I don’t even get them.

I’m just perplexed, and disappointed that we have a bunch of Plex devs and team members talking about it and going back and forth , when it’s a simple enough fix…

Step 1: Identify which tags are actually in the file (this can already be done, plex already does it!! See my screenshot above)
Step 2: Simply ask the user which one they want to play LOL, keep it idiot proof, and just remove any hard programming out of the equation.
Step 3: ??
Step 4: Profit! User has picked and is being served their poison, regular HDR, HDR10+ or DV.

Why can’t this be done?

[smann]

Huh? Are you looking at scene releases and deciding what’s out there? Because the scene is often very wrong on proper ripping to be honest. They mostly go for smaller filesizes over actually good rips and the most minimalist standard set: currently HDR10 only.

As you can see, the Blu-Ray for Hobbs and Shaw includes both (along with the generic HDR10 mapping)…

Same with Robin Hood (2019), X (2022) Germany Release, etc… And you can now rip them with both while also having a normal HDR10 as the fallback. Which honestly the scene should adopt since these dynamic HDR tracks are not that large, but that’s another battle to fight and win eventually.

I was successful with X previously…

[nfmain]

@smann

Fast and Furious Presents: Hobbs and Shaw was both DoVi and HDR10+ back in 2019.

I was curious, so I grabbed a remux of that to see for myself.

Interestingly, Plex behaves completely differently and unexpectedly here with the remux than it does for the other files LMAO…

So in the Remux, there’s actually two whole distinct streams

Video #1
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5.1@High
HDR format : SMPTE ST 2094 App 4, Version 1, HDR10+ Profile B compatible
Codec ID : hev1
Codec ID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding

and

Video #2
ID : 2
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5.1@High
HDR format : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.07.06, EL+RPU, Blu-ray compatible / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID : dvhe
Codec ID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding with Dolby Vision

When playing this MKV, Plex on Firestick doesn’t actually play the DolbyVision, it actually plays the HDR version. I presume because it’s Stream 1?

Is this what you meant @quietvoid ? Maybe this is why it’s a “new” issue to me - because back then, 5 years ago, if the mkvs were encoded like this Remux, in 2 separate streams, and the regular HDR10+ with the HDR fallback layer was the first one, DV would have simply been ignored and it would have played just fine.

The issue is a recent surge in releases where all the meta data is being mixed in 1 file.

Not fair to compare it to releases from 5 years ago when there were 2-3 distinct streams crammed in one mkv/mp4 file.

let me know if I’ve misunderstood something.

Hopefully a plex dev can see the super simple solution above, and just prompt the user to pick 1 of the 3, and off we go!

[nfmain]

@smann

Huh? Are you looking at scene releases and deciding what’s out there?

Please see my reply above. I think we replied at the same time so you may have missed it.

In essence, I am looking at what’s available to me given my sources to determine “what’s out there”. As I said, I don’t have a single, not one, DV+HDR10+ x265 (encoded) file from pre 2023, and since 2023, there’s been a surge in various groups (not just scene, p2p too), releasing this “mixed” files, which Plex clearly struggles with on Firestick.

[speeddemon]

I started this thread based on legally attainable content. There have been legally attainable UHD BDs with both DoVi and HDR10+ dynamic metadata for many years now. This isn’t a new format of media or a new issue. My hope is that Plex offers a way to drop HDR10+ or DoVi metadata on Fire devices depending on what the display actually supports. This seems possible if the EDID is read and DoVi is automatically preferred. If no DoVi (Samsung) then it could just fallback always to stripping DoVi and sending HDR10+. It could be seamless.

[smann]

@nfmain

So in the Remux, there’s actually two whole distinct streams

Yeah, Dolby Vision came out and was the only thing around. For the first time in recent history, people rejoiced that there was a single standard to expect. To handle it, they needed to add a “1080p” track for the Dolby Vision metadata. This adds all the necessary dynamic data on top of the regular 4k video track for compiling the scene-by-scene tone mapping in 12-bit and such.

Then Samsung screwed everything up by inventing their own 10-bit standard that built upon the regular HDR10 metadata. While this style of application makes more sense (just like DTS-HD Master Audio building on the regular DTS Core for audio), it just added another player to the game and screwed everyone overall. Now we have 2 standards that companies need to choose from. Luckily some are starting to choose both, since most TVs can’t display both. This is a provider issue really, but it’s been passed on to the consumer due to providers not wanting to pay both royalties. Basically what we can expect is big name movies and TV shows to shell out the money for both formats and the rest are just hit or miss. Hopefully that changes.

---

In the end though, Plex needs to do a better job of defining HDR formats and keeping them separate. They are truly very different, especially since most client devices only support one or the other and not both, or sometimes both with a default to a preferred format. This is actually a big deal.

[nfmain]

@speeddemon

There have been legally attainable UHD BDs with both DoVi and HDR10+ dynamic metadata for many years now.

And those work (work = display non black screen), I just ran the remux file as I said above. That’s not the actual problem.

[smann]

I think this might be the issue in your example. I’ve successfully managed to rip DoVi with HDR10 fallback, and add HDR10+ into a single video track that works on everything I’ve tested so far. Your example shows 2 separate video tracks. While on a Blu-Ray disc, they would show a 2160p normal video track and a 1080p HDR overlay track with HDR data, the rip would need to incorporate all of these together to properly decide what to play, if I’m not mistaken. Someone can correct me if wrong.

EDIT: I think a 2-video-track file would always fail since Plex (and most other media servers) can’t handle more than 1 video track. Or else we would all be putting Theatrical Cuts, Director’s Cuts, Collector’s Edition: Final Cuts, etc into the same container and just selecting which video and audio we wanted for our current watching session. Which would actually be phenomenal since Plex continues to drag its feet on proper Edition/Cut integration after decades of people asking for it with way-less-than-half-assed results.

[nfmain]

@smann

I think this might be the issue in your example. I’ve successfully managed to rip DoVi with HDR10 fallback, and add HDR10+ into a single video track that works on everything I’ve tested so far.

Can you share the .mkv of a file that has DV, and HDR10+, I’d like to try it on the firestick.

Every single DV + HDR10+ file that has one video file (like the examples I gave above) don’t work (black screen)

The file above I grabbed just to see had 2 video files, embedded, and in that one, hilariously, it actually displayed the content, just not in DV, presumably as the HDR10+ / HDR10 stream was first and not DV.

So there’s two issues going on as far as Im concerned.

most people dont keep 2 movies in 1 mkv for space reasons so that point is moot.

[smann]

@nfmain

Can you share the .mkv of a file that has DV, and HDR10+, I’d like to try it on the firestick.

If possible I will. It’s pretty large… I don’t know how to upload it, it’s not an authorized filetype. And I’m not trying to re-encode this, it took MANY tries to get right that I don’t remember now.

But there’s this…

Except in Plex, there’s no acknowledgement of the HDR10+ track…

The other thing I’d like to point out is that a remux is not a true equivalent of an actual Blu-Ray disc. It’s a re-containerization into a form that is commonly accepted across platforms, mostly in an mkv or mp4 container. This doesn’t mean it’s free from issues. It’s only as good as the current muxing procedures, which will always delay dedicated players’ specs. So remuxes are not perfect test files.

[speeddemon]

@nfmain

And those work (work = display non black screen), I just ran the remux file as I said above. That’s not the actual problem.

Blu-ray remuxes containing HDR10+ & Dolby Vision Profile 7 converted to Profile 8.1 display a black screen. The Fire TV device doesn’t care where the file was sourced from.

[pommesmatte]

@smann

@nfmain

Can you share the .mkv of a file that has DV, and HDR10+, I’d like to try it on the firestick.

If possible I will. It’s pretty large… I don’t know how to upload it, it’s not an authorized filetype. And I’m not trying to re-encode this, it took MANY tries to get right that I don’t remember now.

You could use MKVToolnix to cut the first one or two minutes and then upload it to a filehoster.

[pommesmatte]

@quietvoid

On my side I get a black screen with any player that supports Dolby Vision, if the file contains both.

You mean, with every FIRE TV right? Theres is no issue with Shield TV or Android TV.

[smann]

Doh, totally forgot could easily split on the keyframes in MKVToolNix

Here’s an example of both Dolby Vision and HDR10+ in the same file, with fallback to regular HDR10. Any longer and the file was too big to attach…
X (2022) ~ DV and HDR10+ Example.zip (25.2 MB)

Plex doesn’t even see the HDR10+ part.

[nfmain]

@smann

If possible I will. It’s pretty large…

Load the file in MKVToolNix, go to Output, and Choose “Split Mode” and output a 15second clip to any online filehost, google drive, one drive, even a temporary random file upload host. The file shouldn’t be more than like 200MB.