Why is Plex identifying SD video as 576p?

General Discussions
1

I realize it’s probably not going to affect the way a video is played to any device, but I’m curious why Plex is identifying videos with a resolution of 720X404 as 576p. Previously, they were recognized with a resolution of either 480p or SD.

If you look at the attached XML for the file, it has 2 versions, one is 1280X720 identified as 720p, the second is 720X404 identified (incorrectly) as 576p. My only concern is that since they are now being identified as 576p, will this new resolution force a transcode to users asking for 480p at 1,5 Mbps even though the bitrate is in that range.

2

They’ve known about it - or should have known about it - since March 19:
https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/comment/1403205#Comment_1403205

I’m assuming this is a bug related to the “(Metadata) Improved classification of video resolution as 720p, 1080p, 4k, and 8k. (#2639)” fix in PMS 1.5.

Yea, great ‘fix’ there, Plex and way to stay on top of issues reported in Plex Previews BEFORE they make it to the wild!

Every single one of my meticulous, perfectly set up and personally encoded 720x480 is reported as 576p. Every Wombat Squad, incorrectly encoded 640x480 item is reported as 480p.

For me, this runs right by ‘Curious’ into ‘Enraged’ territory.

Plex - A Name You Can Trust (to completely screw up what used to be a good thing).

@OttoKerner
@“MovieFan.Plex”
May want to try and ‘Shoe-Horn’ this discovery onto the whiteboard at Plex HQ along with other 98 thousand things to fix - or ignore.

3

This is an intentional change. After earlier reports of PMS mis-identifying the label, the change mentioned in the release notes was added.

There is a debate regarding certain resolutions and 720x480 is one of them. The 480p term came about to describe original television broadcast signals in the US also known as SDTV, which has a resolution of 640x480. 576p was used to describe SDTV signals in PAL countries like Europe which has a resolution of 704x576 (technically 768x576 to get 4:3 ratio). When US DVD movies started using widescreen, 720x480 was created, along with a new EDTV category but didn’t specify if this should be considered 480p (to fit the vertical resolution) or 576p (to fit the horizontal). So which box would you put this in? Plex chose to keep 640x480 for 480p and 768x576 for 576p, so this video fits into the 576p category.

The same argument can be made for extremely high aspect ratio videos such as 1920x720. Would this be 720p to fit the vertical or 1080p to fit the horizontal. Plex uses 1920x1080 and 1280x720p boxes and since it won’t fit in the 1280x720, this would be 1080p.

If you feel the decision is wrong, please let us know.

4

The Decision is wrong - there is no way to sugar coat it. It’s just wrong.

I know how this is going to go. Plex has decided what works best for Plex and everyone can just KOA 'cause that’s the way it’s going to be.

Plex has made a stupid decision:


If Plex Devs knew the first thing about anamorphic settings and DVD encodes it would be crystal clear how wrong you are. 480p material can never be 576p, no matter how badly Plex wants it to be or how much Plex wants us to just ‘get over it’. 576p looks better than 480p. You know why? BECAUSE IT HAS 96 MORE VERTICAL LINES OF RESOLUTION! 480p can’t be 576p just because Plex can’t figure out a way to make the right decision.

You can try to spin this crap anyway you want, but it’s wrong, wrong, wrong. It’s wrong 20 years ago, it’s wrong today, it’ll be wrong tomorrow and still be wrong 20 years from now. This decision may fly around the big oak table at Plex HQ, but every person on Earth that knows how to correctly encode a DVD knows it’s wrong. You are embarrassing yourselves.

5

@JuiceWSA said:
If Plex Devs knew the first thing about anamorphic settings and DVD encodes it would be crystal clear how wrong you are. 480p material can never be 576p, no matter how badly Plex wants it to be or how much Plex wants us to just ‘get over it’.

What you linked to is what is allowed on a DVD. Are you saying that anything allowed by the DVD standard should be considered 480p? We are not using the label DVD. What resolutions limits would you have chosen for each label?

Edit - Also keep in mind that the 480 lines for DVD only applies to NTSC. For PAL areas, a DVD can be 576 lines. So a PAL DVD should be considered 480p? What if someone took a PAL DVD and cropped it to 480 vertical lines but kept the horizontal, so you got a 768x480 video?

6

That’s right. In The United States of America (there are a few people living here) and all areas where NTSC is the standard 720x480 is 480p. 640x480 is 480p. 480p can’t be 576p.

Plex has always misreported anything over 720x480 as 576p as in your example of 768x480. We got used to that. We got used to Plex misreporting 1920x7something (The Hateful 8, Lawrence of Arabia, et.al. - extreme Wide Screen) as 720p. Ok. Plex couldn’t figure that out. We get it. Those things are W-I-D-E, man. We’ll give you a pass on that one. Technically there are really only 780p (or whatever) pixels of vertical resolution so technically Plex has correctly reported it (see? I can be reasonable :slight_smile: )

Misreporting 720x480 or 704x480 as 576p is just hilarious! That means that every properly encoded file in The United States of America and all lands where NTSC is the standard (BILLIONS, BILLIONS) have now been blasted by a PlexMine amidships! PAL guys don’t even know anything happened.

A properly encoded PAL DVD with the proper anamorphic settings for 16:9 has a display width of 1024 - read my guide and you’ll learn something you obviously didn’t know. A properly encoded PAL DVD @ 16:9 has a storage res of 720x576 or 704x576 - that’s all the res they can get on that disc and it’s the very reason anamorphic settings were born and should be reported as 576p - that’s the way it always was and how it should be. When it’s expanded for playback in all it’s glory it’s going to display at 1024x576, but Plex looks at the storage res and correctly reports it as 576p. If some bonehead wants to encode at 1024x576 (no anamorphic settings) and have Plex report it as 720 (guessing here - I don’t encode Bonehead style) that’s on them.

People that take the time to learn how to do things right know what has to happen during the encode for it to be right. Now Plex comes along and arbitrarily decides that these skilled persons who learned how to do it right are just an annoyance and Plex would rather cater to the BoneHead crowd. Boneheads don’t care how Plex reports it or they would have taken the time to learn how to do it right!

I even encode 4:3 material stored at 720x480 with a display width setting during the encode of 640. That is the proper way to do it. Every player on Earth knows how to handle that encoding method because IT IS THE INDUSTRY STANDARD!

Is Plex going to re-write the industry standard because they can’t figure it out? HA! You may think that’s cool and all, but there are millions and millions of people in the industry and regular consumers that know ya’ll are whacky.

Plex has made some epic bad decisions lately, but this one is the Cherry on top. This right here proves beyond any doubt that ya’ll just don’t care.

7

Let’s do it this way. Can you give me a table of the resolution ranges that should be used for the various labels? We’re not looking at just 1 resolution. If you want to argue 720x480 should be 480p, that’s fine. But we need a cutoff for when it’s no longer considered 480p. It would be a lot easier if every file fit a specific resolution, but we’ve seen 722x480, 720x482, 800x480, 800x420, etc.

8

@MovieFan.Plex said:
Let’s do it this way. Can you give me a table of the resolution ranges that should be used for the various labels? We’re not looking at just 1 resolution. If you want to argue 720x480 should be 480p, that’s fine. But we need a cutoff for when it’s no longer considered 480p. It would be a lot easier if every file fit a specific resolution, but we’ve seen 722x480, 720x482, 800x480, 800x420, etc.

722x480, 720x482, 800x480, 800x420, etc., would be improperly encoded files. I mean if you’re asking - that’s the truth. If Plex misreports them have them come and ■■■■■ about it on the forum - I’ll handle those. lol

No, really this is what I think and thanks for asking.

722x480, 720x482 - OK… a little padding - it’s still wrong, but Plex is all about the user (right?) and nobody is perfect (all the time - like me). A DVD can only hold 720 (the industry standard). Plex will give you 722 and maybe 485 then you’d better come to the forums for a lesson.

800x480 - The encoder fumbled the hand-egg and is kicking it every time he reaches down to pick it up. 576p Get over it. Come to the Forums.

800x420 - Give me a break - SD. Wanna know why? Come to the forums. I’d say 470 would be the SD cut off. If it ain’t 480 you’re doing it wrong and if it ain’t 470 you’re really doing it wrong.

720x404 - I know a guy that does that (even after I told him it was WRONG!) SD. He knows it’s wrong and loves the letters S and D.

There you go. I think most people would agree that would work for them.

And BTW - every single NTSC DVD I’ve ever seen carries 720x480. I have seen a whole bunch of 704x480 and every single time it’s from something I recorded from an OTA TV Signal - so yes, 704x480 should be 480p. I’ve also seen a LOT of horrible encodes, malformed aspect ratios and such coming off TV Broadcast Towers and that is due to being at the mercy of Educated Idiots (College Graduates) with ZERO real world, on the job experience and I have developed a whole bag of tricks dealing effectively with the disasters they pump into the airwaves.

If Plex is trying to chase these idiots to make Plex DVR work better - they’re making a big mistake.

9

Server updated - no movement.

Plex, in their infinite wisdom, has decided it’s acceptable to misreport every properly encoded DVD in NTSC-land. Industry Standards mean nothing to Plex. Plex will change how the world works and if that doesn’t work Plex will certainly rule in the Plexiverse.

PAL-NTSC-SECAM.jpg800×640

Well, Folks… The good news is that your 720x480 DVD rips got an upgrade to 576p. The bad news is they’re still 480p, have been for decades and will still be 480p for decades to come - unless you use Plex.

Revelation 6:8
“And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death (for 480p), and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth (or through less than spectacular development).”

There’s a new sheriff in town. He and his horse are named, Plex.
I have a secret message for him and the horse he rode in on.

10

It seems to me that if you are going to use the vertical resolution as the label then it’s pretty simple. Use that number. Nx480 is 480p. If instead, certain fixed resolutions are the only things that get a shorthand label (e.g. 1920x1080 is 1080p) then use that label and simply label all other resolutions with both numbers.

Better yet, just label everything NxM and lose the shorthand. Let me search or sort by either vertical or horizontal resolution.

But the current misidentification of 720x480 as 576p makes no sense.

Also, interlaced video is being misidentified as 1080p when it should be 1080i (i.e. shows that Plex DVR recorded from CBS or NBC).

11

Good reference to Resolutions

12

@Gdr56 said:
Good reference to Resolutions

TV Resolution: Do You Need a 1080p, 4K or 8K TV? | Home Cinema Guide

Very little (if any) 480p information can be gleaned there and this discussion is ALL ABOUT 480p.

What’s important is that every single properly encoded DVD rip on Planet Earth in NTSC is stored at 720x480 - now reported as 576p by Plex. That is simply wrong - no matter how much spin Plex wants to put on it.

13

Anyone tell me why I should care about this in the real world and or usability of Plex??

14

Apparently, Plex cares as much as you (and @hthighway ) do.

I’ll tell you right now if Plex started reporting 576p as 720p due to some lazy, ‘who cares’ development the PAL community would be up in arms and Plex would snap to attention. Plex lives, works and breathes in PAL territory and what happens outside PAL-land just doesn’t matter.

So I guess we’ll see no more from you about those things that annoy you so much - that Plex doesn’t seem all that bothered about. I’m bookmarking your post to throw in your face the next time you decide Plex has done something dumb. Think of me as your X-Wife - the one you never met. This is a glorious day and your post is the one bright spot on this otherwise dark development - for me, at least.

:slight_smile:

15

LOL
What’s up with that???
All I was curious was why does it make a difference to me in the scheme of things??

I ask so I could make a decision regarding the issue. As of now I have no opinion since it all seems to work for me.

No need to let your hormones loose…

After you calm down a little, can you tell me what the bad thing about this is or are you just upset because it is WRONG??

16

To me it is important because bad metadata is worse than no metadata. I have many DVD rips that I personally ripped and encoded that are now being misidentified as 576p. Yet they aren’t 576p, they are 480p. Calling them 576p is just incorrect. If plex is going to go to the trouble to tell me something about my video it should, at the very least, get it right.

17

@JuiceWSA said:
Apparently, Plex cares as much as you (and @hthighway ) do.

I’ll tell you right now if Plex started reporting 576p as 720p due to some lazy, ‘who cares’ development the PAL community would be up in arms and Plex would snap to attention. Plex lives, works and breathes in PAL territory and what happens outside PAL-land just doesn’t matter.

So I guess we’ll see no more from you about those things that annoy you so much - that Plex doesn’t seem all that bothered about. I’m bookmarking your post to throw in your face the next time you decide Plex has done something dumb. Think of me as your X-Wife - the one you never met. This is a glorious day and your post is the one bright spot on this otherwise dark development - for me, at least.

:slight_smile:

Not sure why you feel Plex doesn’t care? A Plex employee has already commented in this thread with a question, which you responded to. Maybe said employee took the info you provided and maybe passed it along or is having a discussion with the appropriate DEV team? And maybe, it takes a bit of time for that to happen?

And as for liking @jjrjr1 post, well I kinda had the same feeling he did about the issue, and that’s what the like button is for. There are several things on my personal list of Plex Issues and this just doesn’t happen to be one of them so, like @jjrjr1, I wanted to find out why it’s an important to someone else

18

This is not a new issue for me.
For the last 2 years I have seen Plex misidentify 480p as 576p.
I never knew the reason why.
I can understand if it just an issue of wanting accuracy.
Would it be better if PMS just did not display that info???

Does it affect how PMS works??

19

Calm down? C’mon, men… can’t you take a slight jest?

Like @ac4lt sez - anything worth doing is worth doing right. We take the time to do it right then Plex does it wrong. That’s highly irritating, if you ask me, and you did.

@jjrjr1 said:
This is not a new issue for me.
For the last 2 years I have seen Plex misidentify 480p as 576p.

If that’s the case, then you must be doing something wrong. Here’s how to do it right, if you’re interested:
https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/comment/1335697/#Comment_1335697
(even an old dog like me can learn a new trick now and then)

If history is any indication, employees show up to ask for opinions on an irritating issue - then crickets - like ‘Popular Tracks’, for instance, that are still populating my music after a year (at least - that’s just when I entered the fray) AND WHILE THE “SETTING” IS TURNED OFF!
https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/221067/music-and-those-persistent-popular-tracks
I hope one day I don’t have to put up with Popular Tracks and I also hope one day my 480p content is identified as 480p, but I have to tell ya I have some pretty low expectations at this point.

Just sayin’.

20

I, too, do not see why this matters. If Plex plays the media correctly then what it says about the media is ultimately meaningless. I watch media I do not obsess over it.

If I have a cat and a dog but I tell people I have two children I still have a cat and a dog and I still cannot claim them as dependents.