I’ve been using Plex on my Synology DiskStation for a little over a year now (pandemic project). My question is: why the hell does Plex break SO OFTEN, and why is it so hard to repair the damage when it does? I have four similar stories from the past year, but the most recent example happened today: I updated the firmware on my Synology NAS, which hosts my Plex library. So for some totally unknown reason… Plex decided to forget MOST of the metadata from my library. Not all of it, mind you - Plex still remembers most (maybe all - I’m still trying to sort things out… AGAIN) of the custom sort order and collection data that I’ve painstakingly entered multiple times now, but it has decided to COMPLETELY forget what posters I chose for my hundreds of movies (again, done this multiple times now). As I said, this isn’t the first time Plex has decided to freak out on me, but it’s happened often enough that it makes me think Plex is just not worth the effort, at all… though sadly I don’t know of any alternatives. And as a software developer with almost 35 years of experience, I get that software is often hard to write properly, but… seriously?
Oh and since I’m already ranting here - before I post this, the web site wants me to choose at least one tag, which is fine, but… THE TAGS AREN’T EVEN LISTED IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER??? This is not only the most obvious possible way to present users with this info, but it’s also SUPER easy. This is a perfect example of the lack of attention to detail that seems to exist on this project.
Now I know that Plex has some extremely loyal users and I’ll probably get ripped a new one over these complaints, but I’ve also seen tons of complaints from users on various forums going back for years, basically to the earliest days that Plex was rolled out, so I know I’m not alone here.
Nope, no issue. Plex for me has been rock solid going past 2 years now. I have never had Plex wig out or even blink on a FW upgrade. In fact Plex is incredibly stable for me often running 6 + streams, transcoding etc. and it just chugs along.
However I never use beta FW as I consider my Plex a production sever, I want it working 24/7 no headaches so I never use betas and always wait at least a week before I upgrade the FW after it is released. I skip those firmwares that sometimes have issues and use only the ones that are stable, like any actual business would for their server.
Are you sure you have everything set up right? One big issue that could cause a repeated loss of metadata is not using the Plex naming convention and / or not using the proper library folder when setting up the library.
I’ve been a design & development engineer for an equally long time (started in 1977) .
One thing I was accustomed to in my career was the highly regimented methods (e.g. MIL-STD-xxxx, ARINC-xxxx, etc). Everything followed a highly disciplined flow which was executed by large corporations with lots of hands to turn the cranks. Plex uses the more modern “Agile” methodology. I am old school and don’t think in those terms. Younger engineer seem to understand it better. Whatever works —
By industry measure, it’s still start-up. It’s still growing. Sure, there are gaps, some big and some small. For what it does, and how many hands are involved, it’s pretty damn amazing.
Now add to this – the technology is always moving. Video and audio standards are ever changing. Processors change every 18-24 months (classic Moore’s Law). Trying to keep up with that, plus the demands of customers is no easy task.
Keeping everything documented is a daunting and never-ending task.
For these reasons, I’d ask you take a breath and look at everything it can do.
Now, to speak to the issues you have;
When PMS is setup correctly on Synology, the issue you’re describing doesn’t happen. DSM updates are applied and PMS is instantly running after the restart.
Media put in the correct shared folders on Synology (yes, there are those we need to avoid because of conflicts with Synology’d exclusivity hold by Video Station), always works.
What am I leading to with this? Simple.
May I offer this How-To, which I wrote, to show how to best use PMS on Synology?
The methods used are not as important as the resultant folder layouts…
Syno FAQ
Setup recommendations.
Please don’t hesitate to ask me anything.
All said and done, if you have skills to bring to the table and would like to help, I know they will gladly review your CV
My Plex server has been rock solid also. I too only run production versions. I however run my Plex Server on a Unraid NAS in a Docker Container. All my clients are production as well.
Thanks for all the replies everyone. I should start by stating that I wrote that post at a moment of extreme frustration, but as I stated, sadly that wasn’t the first time it’s happened.
To address a few of the things people have brought up - when i initially set things up I learned VERY quickly to follow the naming conventions & recommended folder structures, and I’ve done that.
Second, the firmware I upgraded to isn’t beta, it’s a full release. As I said this isn’t the first time Plex has lost all sense of my metadata (third time in the last year, in fact, plus one other time Plex stopped working for reasons unknown), the other times were not associated with firmware upgrades at all. Having said that I realized last night that prior to upgrading my firmware, I actually hadn’t used Plex for several days, so it’s entirely possible that the metadata loss and the firmware upgrade aren’t related.
I also want to point out that I haven’t been making changes to Plex, and other than this Synology firmware update I haven’t been monkeying with that either. Hell, I haven’t even added any new movies to my Plex server since January
Anyway, I took on the project of ripping my hundreds of DVDs & Blu-Rays so that I could have the convenience of streaming them (ultimately I had planned to box them all up and put them in the garage) but I’m having a hard time seeing a path to being able to trust Plex. If this had happened once, or if I’d made a change that could possibly have caused it I could understand that. But when software goes from a perfectly working state to being totally broken with no apparent user changes driving that breakage, it’s pretty hard for me to feel good about using Plex going forward.
Please do the following to generate the log files I need to see.
Settings - Server - General - Show Advanced
a. Make certain DEBUG is checked
b. Make certain VERBOSE is not checked.
c. Click “SAVE” if you make changes.
Go to the library section which has missing metadata (pick any if there are multiple), and “Refresh All Metadata”.
When this completes,
a. Settings - Server - Troubleshooting
b. DowMay I see some log files which nload Logs
c. Attach the ZIP file for me to review.
Anyone else with problems may do this and present their logs for analysis as well.
Complaining is one thing, Logs means it can get fixed.
Hey Chuck, thanks so much for the offer of help, I’ll try and get to this as soon as I can, but work is going to be pretty crazy for me this week so i certainly won’t have time soon.
Oh and hey, something I thought someone mentioned above, but for some reason now I can’t find it in the comments - I do, at least in theory, have my metadata backed up (I recall checking that box in settings, at least, never actually checked to see if it’s working :). When I get a chance I’ll look up the instructions on how to restore that, perhaps it’ll help.
Thanks for the info Chuck. I’m running DSM 6.2.4-25556 currently. Somewhere along the line I saw an option to automatically back things up, I thought it was metadata but perhaps not? In any case, I have a folder on my NAS called \Plex\Library\Application Support\Plex Media Server\Plug-in Support\Databases, which has seems to have some previous backups in it, but they only go back a bit more than a week so I’m not sure if it’s enough, I’ve made a copy of the oldest of those files and when I have a chance I’ll try restoring it, but again I’m not sure exactly when the last time things worked properly so I’m not sure if these backups will help.
On a related note, the first time my Plex server lost it’s metadata was when I moved my entire library to a new volume (my library is stored on an external USB drive hooked up to my LAN, and I was upgrading the drive to a bigger size). At the time, Google didn’t give me any good hits on how to migrate - if I ever need to do that again, can you point me to instructions?
@ChuckPa Just because Agile is being used, don’t discount your experience and the value of methodology. Properly implemented Agile projects have rigor and discipline. The main difference is that Agile iterates to a solution to address the potential big fail of traditional monolithic project management, which is to spend weeks or months (or more, depending on the industry) gathering requirements, then IT spending months, years (or more) implementing. Then IT “delivers” as a big bang after spending lots of time, money, and resource. The customer looks at what is delivered and says “Hey, I’m happy you are happy, but you didn’t deliver what I need.” Agile should have rigor and discipline built into every iteration, with stories to conduct testing and code reviews, and there should be customer representation on the Agile team. In the case where the customer is external, someone on the team should be responsible for anticipating the needs of, representing, and advocating for the customer. That way there is better opportunity to course correct when early iteration releases aren’t in line with what is needed. If this isn’t being done, then someone isn’t doing their job (looking at you, Scrum Master.) Agile isn’t an excuse to not have rigor and discipline.
What I will now say, Agile can actually take longer to “iterate” to the final solution because LESS time was spent up front in the Requirements phase of design. I have seen, first hand, where large chunks of code were discarded because the initial software design did not accommodate a requirement.
Taking time upfront, to plan for expansion and changing requirements, is the better solution.
Am I speaking for Engineering here? NO
Am I speaking for Plex here? NO
What I will say with my Plex hat on:
Product teams develop the functional requirements. Often, because of customer feedback, they’re nebulous at best. That’s the nature of the beast.
They formulate something and work with Engineering to iterate into software. – There’s Agile at work.
Everyone sees the combination of phased deployment as well as ongoing refinement (-- again, Agile).
They work with the server, which is a huge piece of complex code. It’s C++ and I know how C++ class interactions can get nasty.
My world here is primarily at the OS level. I’m the platform / OS, packaging guy.
I’m told what is needed for a vendor,
I take the initial stab at the task and map out what looks like appropriate functional requirements.
We have a couple meetings about what’s been put forth and refine.
That’s what I then take and put into PoC code.
We review it and adjust
I refine and continue PoC development. My experience allows me to place the stubs for that functionality to be developed in subsequent phases.
When all the to-date requirements are satisfied, we have a bigger review.
If all is good then I commit to developing production code.
By the time my work gets to forum preview, it’s been tested on all the HQ Lab NAS boxes we have.
Sometimes we bring the development effort into the forum as a “Forum Preview”.
I did this with Synology DSM 7 packaging.
We all got great feedback and worked out a lot of issues.
What wasn’t seen were all the “thrash it out” meetings.
maybe what I’m saying here is:
I coded using a very regimented methodology which I’m used to, knowing in advance everything which was going to be seen in that first “Plex Pass” form…
I brought it to the forum and, with the community help, we tuned into final form. Unless I really missed the boat, everyone seems happy with it ?
I’m now on to Phase 2 of the Synology implementation.
a. Backup & Restore
b. DSM 7 Release Candidate changes.
Which methodology was actually used? I see it as both.
Hey gang, I’m back! I haven’t yet had time to try restoring one of my backups, but I think I know what happened and perhaps there’s an easy fix? I hope so, anyway. My movies all live on an external USB drive connected to my Synology. It appears as though my NAS decided to change the volume name of that drive; I’m not sure when or why. I guess the volume name on which the media lives is embedded in the metadata? If so, is there a way to point the metadata to the new volume name?
Awesome, I’ll give that a go when I have time (probably not till the weekend :)!
And now that that’s settled, I’d like to add my $.02 to the Agile conversation (and hopefully, not add fuel to the fire while I’m at it).
I spent most of my career in video games (for those who care, this is me: Patrick McCarthy Video Game Credits and Biography - MobyGames) and I’ve worked both on traditional “waterfall” teams (create a schedule in advance and stick to it) as well as agile teams (iterate as you go) and for anyone who looks down on one method or the other, I can say based on decades of experience that both have their strengths and weaknesses. Agile is particularly good if you don’t already know what you’re building in advance (and most especially, if you don’t have a hard deadline and therefore have time to iterate until you get it right). On the other hand if your design is really solid up front, waterfall is actually not a bad way to go. In the case of games, that ideally means you’ve spent plenty of time in the pre-production phase with a very small team building prototypes to make sure the systems you mean to build will all actually be fun - this is essentially applying agile to a very small team before you scale up to 200+ people (I’ve been on multiple teams that were at least that big), so you already know what you’re building. My experience has been that either method will fall down if you “play to its weakness” - e.g., jump straight to a big team and use waterfall without prototyping in advance, or try to do agile on a big team when you have a hard deadline (games don’t usually start off with a hard deadline, but sooner or later you end up with one !:).
Lol! I’ve been a 100% full time manager for about 5 years now (and was one off an on since about 2006), so it’s been a while since I’ve been on the front lines myself!
